The Leinster thread

[irisht]

Leinster Rugby 'A' team v Connacht Eagles (Leinster Senior caps in brackets)

15. Rob Russell(U21/St. Michaels) - Sub Academy
14. Josh O'Connor(U19/Wexford RFC) - Sub Academy
13. Gavin Mullin(U23/Blackrock) - Academy Yr 3
12. Tommy O'Brien(U22/Blackrock) - Academy Yr 3
11. Andrew Smith(U20/St. Michaels) - Academy Yr 1
10. Conor Kelly(U21/CC Roscrea) - Sub Academy
9. Hugh O'Sullivan(U22/Belvedere) - Senior
1. Charlie Ward(U20/Tullow RFC) - Sub Academy
2. Dan Sheehan(U21/Clongowes) - Academy Yr 2
3. Roman Salanoa(U23) - Academy Yr 1
4. Charlie Ryan(U21/Blackrock) - Academy Yr 1
5. Ryan Baird(U21/St. Michaels) - Academy Yr 2
6. Óisín Dowling(U23/St. Michaels) - Academy Yr 3
7. Scott Penny(U21/St. Michaels) - Senior
8. Ronan Foley(U22/St. Marys) - Sub Academy

Replacements
16. Bobby Sheehan(U20/Clongowes) - Sub Academy
17. Marcus Hanan(U20/Clane RFC) - Sub Academy
18. Tom Clarkson(U20/Blackrock) - Academy Yr 1
19. Brian Deeny(U20/Wexford RFC) - Academy Yr 1
20. Alex Soroka(U19/Belvedere) - Sub Academy
21. Cormac Foley(U21/St. Gerards) - Sub Academy
22. James Tarrant(U21/Blackrock) - Sub Academy
23. Liam Turner(U21/Blackrock) - Academy Yr 1

 

[irisht]

Leinster Rugby Squad vs. Ospreys (senior caps in brackets):

15. Hugo Keenan (6)
14. Fergus McFadden (178)
13. Rory O'Loughlin (62)
12. Joe Tomane (14)
11. James Lowe (30)
10. Ross Byrne (72)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (71)
1. Peter Dooley (62)
2. Rónan Kelleher (3)
3. Michael Bent (125)
4. Devin Toner (232)
5. Scott Fardy (44) CAPTAIN
6. Josh Murphy (22)
7. Will Connors (6)
8. Caelan Doris (17)

16. James Tracy (93)
17. Michael Milne (1)
18. Vakh Abdaladze (8)
19. Ross Molony (83)
20. Max Deegan (47)
21. Rowan Osborne (0)
22. Harry Byrne (1)
23. Conor O'Brien (17)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Conan out for 6 months. Welcome to the big time Mr. Deegan.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So with the Heino three weeks away, thank Jebus, I think we need a bit of a shake up from last year when it just went stale at the end.

Larmour, Lowe, Byrne would be my ideal back three, we could really put width on the ball and have two elite finishers and two elite strike runners. RK bench man.

Henshaw and Ringrose are by some distance our best options here. Tomane and ROL look like decent like for like replacements from a stylistic pov. I'd like them to get practicing their long passes.

Fetish and Sexton half backs. McGarth and Byrne to bench, again I think it's just picking the better of similar players. If Joey didn't turn to the dark side I might be championing Byrne with him at 15 though.

Deegan, VdF, Fardy, Ruddock to bench. Picks itself with Conan's injury, and it probably should have been seen more often than an old Sean O'Brien last year.

Toner and Ryan. Don't know whether you stick one of the young flankers on the bench, probably Doris, or give Baird a baptism of fire, leaning towards the latter.

Healy, Kelleher, Furlong. **** it, the kids real good, Cronin is the perfect bench option which we lacked massively when he started, in between those two old heads he should thrive. Byrne and Porter next off the bus for the props.

 

[Leinster Fan]

So with the Heino three weeks away, thank Jebus, I think we need a bit of a shake up from last year when it just went stale at the end.

Larmour, Lowe, Byrne would be my ideal back three, we could really put width on the ball and have two elite finishers and two elite strike runners. RK bench man.

Henshaw and Ringrose are by some distance our best options here. Tomane and ROL look like decent like for like replacements from a stylistic pov. I'd like them to get practicing their long passes.

Fetish and Sexton half backs. McGarth and Byrne to bench, again I think it's just picking the better of similar players. If Joey didn't turn to the dark side I might be championing Byrne with him at 15 though.

Deegan, VdF, Fardy, Ruddock to bench. Picks itself with Conan's injury, and it probably should have been seen more often than an old Sean O'Brien last year.

Toner and Ryan. Don't know whether you stick one of the young flankers on the bench, probably Doris, or give Baird a baptism of fire, leaning towards the latter.

Healy, Kelleher, Furlong. **** it, the kids real good, Cronin is the perfect bench option which we lacked massively when he started, in between those two old heads he should thrive. Byrne and Porter next off the bus for the props.

Would tend agree with you in the back three, Leinster have always been far happier dropping Kearney than Ireland and if Byrne hadn't gotten injured last season that'd have been a really tight call during the run in (second time in two seasons Kearney got back in due to injuries,Carbery was well ahead of him before the Fijians broke him back in 2017). This is a good time to be starting Larmour at fullback, he's looking better and better there and if we're being honest this is as easy a group as we'll ever get at this level.

As you say centre is an easy call (when they're fit, and they never are). Tomane has finally shown up this year, been one of our best players so far. Him and O'Loughlin are probably in more or less a straight shootout for the 23 shirt in a fully fit backline, although it'd probably go to Rob if he doesn't start.

Think the whole 3 into 2 has always stopped JGP ever been considered as a potential starter, with that gone it'll be interesting to see how he does against McGrath. I'd still tend towards for Luke because he seems to be a big part of the squad and JGP is probably at his best as an impact sub but if the obvious form call is for Gibson-Park I'd expect us to start him where we probably wouldn't have last season. 10 is pretty easy, Sexton starting, Ross as cover.

Reckon we could have done with more Deegan at the end of last year, difficult to get him on the pitch at the same time as Conan (who is rightfully unstoppable at the minute) but he was definitely worth a start at 7 ahead of O'Brien despite it not being his natural position. Brings a real spark to the pitch, Conan's injury is a big chance for him, and to a lesser extent Doris. Josh van der Flier is a nailed on starter for the foreseeable with or without Leavy I think. 6 really just comes down to a personal preference between Fardy and Ruddock.

Lock is probably Toner and Ryan, although Dev still doesn't look at his best. If he doesn't find form we could see Fardy starting here. If we do decide to go with Kelleher at hooker though we'll definitely want Toner starting, life should be made as easy for him as possible.

Props are easy, Healy should have at least another season or two in him. Dooley has started the season well and could push Byrne (who I really rate). Hooker is the big question. Cronin still has an injury of unclear severity, and Kelleher has really stepped up during the world cup. Tracy and Bryan Byrne are decent but will never be top level, I'd take Kelleher over either. Like you say, tempting to start him even if Cronin is fit. At the end of the day, this is as easy as a group as we'll ever get, hopefully that means we're willing to take risks (not that we aren't normally).

Have to say I'm looking forward to going back to supporting a team with the selection policy of actually picking the best performing players regardless of prior experience etc.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Euro squad was announced last week: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/european-squad-has-been-announced/

Few interesting calls there, Kelleher in ahead of Bryan Byrne is the standout. Harry Byrne ahead of Frawley, Connors instead of Penny, Josh Murphy in and no place for Ryan Baird, Cian Kelleher (unsurprisingly) left out.

Leavy is in as well, but apprently there's an extra rule this year that let's us teams swap players out for the pool stages and the let them come back for the knockouts so you'd imagine that's what will happen with him and Penny. Would have liked to have Baird but other than that can't say I disagree with any of the decisions.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Penny, Baird, Frawley, Bryan Byrne and Cian Kelleher in for Conan, Leavy, Abdaladze, McFadden and Daly. Get swapped back at the end of the pool stages. Good sign on Leavy (although it's probably just hoping), not great news about Abdaladze or Daly's injuries. Abdaladze could just be making sure we're fine if we get another hooker injury though.

Leaves us with the following squad

LH: Healy, Byrne, Dooley
Hooker: Cronin, Kelleher, Tracy, Byrne
TH: Furlong, Porter, Bent*
Lock: Ryan, Toner, Fardy*, Molony, Baird
Backrow: Ruddock, Murphy*, Van Der Flier, Connors, Penny, Deegan, Doris
Scrumhalf: McGrath, JGP, O'Sullivan
Outhalf: Sexton, Byrne, Byrne, Frawley*
Centre: Henshaw, Tomane*, O'Brien, Ringrose, O'Loughlin*
Back Three: Lowe, Larmour, Kearney, Byrne, Kearney, Keenan, Kelleher

Listed generally in some kind of vague pecking order, although backrow and centre are done by primary position as well. Asterixes are for guys who could be covering multiple positions

 

[irisht]

Prop
Jack Aungier(Suttonians RFC/Clontarf) - made 1st team debut.. Looks on course to get dev deal.
Michael Milne(CC Roscrea/UCD) - made 1st team debut.. Doubtful he gets early promotion unless pressured from outside.
Tom Clarkson(Blackrock/DUFC) - potential Ireland u20 captain.
Ramon Salanoa(Old Belvo) - made 1st team debut, lots of developing to be done.

Hooker
Dan Sheehan(Clongowes/Lanadowne) - star for A team and impressive in AIL. Will aim to make 1st team debut in 2nd half of season, could graduate early.

Lock
Oisin Dowling(St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - in and around senior team but under pressure from younger players for playing time.. Needs big 2nd half of season.
Jack Dunne(St. Michaels/DUFC) - key member of A team.. Injured soon after and not returned at time of writing. Injury unknown.
Ryan Baird(St. Michaels/DUFC) - played for seniors before injury. Return expected soon.
Charlie Ryan(Blackrock/UCD) - captained A team but injured soon after in AIL. not returned at time of writing. Injury unknown.

Backrow
Brian Deeny(Wexford RFC/CLontarf) - playing AIL for Clontarf, should feature heavily for 20s.
Martin Moloney(Athy RFC/Old Belvedere) - injured since preseason.

Scrumhalf
Patrick Patterson(Blackrock/UCD) - currently 5th choice.. Playing some 7s.. Faces uphill battle for game time.

Outhalf
Harry Byrne(St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - made 1st team debut and has looked very promising in any game time he has gotten. Looks certain to graduate after this season.
David Hawkshaw(Belvedere/Clontarf) - injured since last season.

Outside Backs
Gavin Mullin(Blackrock/UCD) - key member of A team, absent recently with injury. Future at Leinster looks unclear.
Tommy O'Brien(Blackrock/UCD) - made 1st team debut, certain to be offered dev deal.
Michael Silvester(Clongowes/DUFC) - involved with 7s the first half of the season.
Aaron O'Sullivan(Exile/Blackrock) - involved with 7s this season.
Liam Turner(Blackrock/DUFC) - involved with 7s this season.

 

[irisht]

U20's who played in warmup game against Munster:

LH Prop
Harry Noonan
Marcus Hanan

TH Prop
Tom Clarkson
Charlie Ward

Hooker
John McKee

Lock
Brian Deeny
Joe McCarthy - u19

Backrow
Sean O'Brien
Mark Hernan
Anthony Ryan
Alex Soroka - u19

Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy - u19

Outhalf
Tim Corkery - u19

Outside Backs
Andrew Smith
Max O'Reilly

 

[big ginger 8]

Fergus McFadden officially retired.

Big loss in terms of commitment and experience. Had a very solid career even if he never pushed on the way we might have originally hoped he would.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Damn, what a servant to Ster. One of my faves.

Had a tough time around 2010-2012 when he should have had a bunch of caps ahead of Earls.

 

[munstermuffin]

Damn, what a servant to Ster. One of my faves.

Had a tough time around 2010-2012 when he should have had a bunch of caps ahead of Earls.

Think that is hugely overstating it. Don't think he was ever a certainty ahead of Earls. A good squad player and great versatility and certainly achieved. But on international stage certainly did very well to get out of it what he did

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Think that is hugely overstating it. Don't think he was ever a certainty ahead of Earls. A good squad player and great versatility and certainly achieved. But on international stage certainly did very well to get out of it what he did

2010 autumn and 2011 six Nations he was lightyears ahead. Earls had a good RWC but lived a charmed life with Kidney in comparison.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

He's had an outstanding career. Never a top tier talent but made the most of his ability. He can rightly be very proud of his achievements thus far. Hopefully he can add to his haul of 4 European Cups, a Challenge Cup, 5 League ***les and 2 Six Nations crowns before his retirement.

 

[munstermuffin]

2010 autumn and 2011 six Nations he was lightyears ahead. Earls had a good RWC but lived a charmed life with Kidney in comparison.

As I said just an opinion but wasnever ahead of Earls or few others. We can all say Earls or few Munster had charmed life with DK or few Leinster lads got same treatment for Schmidt.
The thing is McFadden was never top top talent but superb squad player and as Snoop pointed out achieved so much.
Although Snoop officially he is never recognised as having a 6 Nations medal which he himself has said in past

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

As I said just an opinion but wasnever ahead of Earls or few others. We can all say Earls or few Munster had charmed life with DK or few Leinster lads got same treatment for Schmidt.
The thing is McFadden was never top top talent but superb squad player and as Snoop pointed out achieved so much.
Although Snoop officially he is never recognised as having a 6 Nations medal which he himself has said in past

Like 2010-2012 was the peak of his career, class for Leinster and very good with Ireland in limited opportunities. Earls had a bit of a slump at the same time. Earls is/was the better of the two but McFadden should have been ahead for most of those 18 months.

As for the second point it's not very relevant, Ferg got a cap in the 2018 6 nations that he shouldn't have and the same probably goes for the 2016 tournament iirc, but when he was playing well enough to earn the chance to establish himself at international level when he was playing at his very best he wasn't given the chance because a raw and out of form Earls was in the way.

And yeah, McFadden was never top top talent but he was a wing and the only top top wing in Ireland for most of his career was Bowe, and then Stockdale in 2018.

 

[munstermuffin]

Like 2010-2012 was the peak of his career, class for Leinster and very good with Ireland in limited opportunities. Earls had a bit of a slump at the same time. Earls is/was the better of the two but McFadden should have been ahead for most of those 18 months.

As for the second point it's not very relevant, Ferg got a cap in the 2018 6 nations that he shouldn't have and the same probably goes for the 2016 tournament iirc, but when he was playing well enough to earn the chance to establish himself at international level when he was playing at his very best he wasn't given the chance because a raw and out of form Earls was in the way.

And yeah, McFadden was never top top talent but he was a wing and the only top top wing in Ireland for most of his career was Bowe, and then Stockdale in 2018.

I get what you are saying but in my opinion there was never a time McFadden was hard done by on the international scene. And just an opinion. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

2nd part is very relevant in that you think Earls was there just because of DK who wasn't very close to Keith ever. But equally its like me saying Schmidt favoured Dave Kearney. An opinion but maybe not many would agree.

On him having no 6N medals I'm only going by his own words on a joe.ie interview last year. I would've thought he had 1 myself.

On the wing spots. Ferg was a work horse. As I said a very talented squad player who did his role to the line. Was always reliable if called upon.

I'd have many wings ahead of him over time.
Earls, Stockdale, Bowe, Horgan, Fitzgearld to say a few. I'd even say Conway is ahead of him in ceiling. Over his career Ferg did do superb to stay relevant though. And he was a good hard runner

 

[Leinster Fan]

Never the most talented player but took what he had an awfully long way. Wouldnhave stsrted two winning champions cup finals if he hadn't gotten injured against the Scarlets in 2018. The Six Nations thing is odd, he was even on the pitch when we won in 2014, surely he got a medal then? There've been more talented players for Leinster and Ireland in the last decade but few more valuable for Leinster on the whole, a player like him is worth their weight in gold. Not everyone can be an Isa.

 

[munstermuffin]

Never the most talented player but took what he had an awfully long way. Wouldnhave stsrted two winning champions cup finals if he hadn't gotten injured against the Scarlets in 2018. The Six Nations thing is odd, he was even on the pitch when we won in 2014, surely he got a medal then? There've been more talented players for Leinster and Ireland in the last decade but few more valuable for Leinster on the whole, a player like him is worth their weight in gold. Not everyone can be an Isa.

I think no one would deny that he was not gifted. But took what he had and grafted hard and went a long way. And I would have him in a squad every week as I liked his hard direct running which is a trait I like in wingers. he had hands like polo mints at times though. But well can be very proud of all he has achieved and well it is interesting he is getting out of the game fairly young for a winger. Although I think the 33 throws me and I'm guessing 34 is around the corner.

On the 6 Nations I was of the belief also if you played you got a medal. And he played most games that year (2014). Maybe I heard it wrong. As I said just picking up on what he mentioned last year and also notice all the official releases about retirement don't mention any 6 nations just caps etc as well as his achievements a club level.

 

[Groundhog]

Goodbye Iceberg Ferg, we'll always have the 2009 Churchill Cup together!! Probably one of my favorite Leinster players ever (que shocks at a Munster fan liking a slow, workmanlike wing).