The name?

Discussion in 'Super Rugby' started by Dave Davies, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Academy Player

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    Just curious to get feedback from actual Kiwis... what do y’all think about the talk around the Crusaders potentially changing their name?

    I have my own thoughts, but I don’t think my opinion is particularly important here... I’m hoping someone wants to share some honest opinions without it becoming an argument.

    In the US, we have an NFL team whose name is literally a racial slur, but nobody seems to give a crap. I know this isn’t comparable, really, but it’s the closest I’ve got.

    Thanks, friends!
     
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  3. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    which team are you referring too? if its the "redskins" then there is a HUGE campaign to get it changed
     
  4. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    What bothers me about this is that there wasn't really any talk about the Crusaders and whether their name is infringing on religious rights. But now that there was a massive shooting of Muslims in CHRISTchurch, it's somehow linked to the Crusades of yesteryear.

    Why are they not talking about changing the town's name either?

    Why is this a topic of discussion just because of one moron's stupid act??
     
  5. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

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    Just be done with it and rename them the Canterbury Cubs. Cute and Fury and doesn’t “offend” anyone.
     
  6. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    Expect a law suit from the estate of Sir Baden Powell.

    Welcome to the modern world, there is literally NOTHING that won't offend anyone.
     
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  7. bushytop

    bushytop First XV

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    Didn’t think that the Packers was racial... more homophobic! ;)
     
  8. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Is that really where this is coming from? New Zealand are promoting solidarity and unity after and against this tragedy, the changing of the name of the organisation would be a proactive way achieving this in a portion of their society.

    I don't think there's much wrong with the name, nor do I think it's wrong to continue with it but in light of what has happened it could be better.
     
  9. Tigs Man

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    How about The Canterbury Tales?
     
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  10. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    It's been suggested before (by me amongst others, can't remember if I did so here though).
    Unfortunately, it requires a degree of literacy that is rare in NZ... Think Forest of Dean, and subtract 10 IQ points...

    They'd all turn up as furries
     
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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  11. scotty507

    scotty507 First XV

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    Definatly not a new thing people getting offended by a name, Exeter Chiefs was one a while back.
     
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  12. Dave Davies

    Dave Davies Academy Player

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    I think the big deal here was that the gunman has written "crusader" on the weapon, right? It wasn't just a random, "let's be offended by this name" thing, I thought the talk was specifically because of that connection?

    Good one about the Packers, Bushytop, took me a minute to catch on!
     
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  13. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    As i've said before i wasn't one way or the other on it when it was proposed, but after seeing some of the stupid arguments on facebook etc im leaning towards just change it, its only a name

    a couple of points
    • It was debated when the name was chosen, there were comment whether it was appropriate, it was just 24 years ago and people have forgotten but various Crusaders management both past and present have confirmed it, so its not just a new thing thats come up in the last two weeks
    • the term crusader is different to the others people are trying to draw comparison too. Chief - leader of the tribe, Highlander - just a scotsman from the highlands but even in our form just a Scottish warrior (or an awesome movie character), warrior = ....warrior, several people have even draw comparison to the hurricane causing damage...the Crusades were specifically a military action against Muslims...those other fighters mentioned above would fight anyone, not one specific group.
    • People have even been claiming this PC madness is worse that the terror attack itself and others are now claiming that even if they get rid of the horses and knights they'll stop going to games...im embarrassed these are New Zealanders....its a bloody game...and its just the name of the team the plays the bloody game
    • maybe its time all the franchises dropped the "names" and reverted to a more traditional rugby brand, we would be the "Otago Southland Rugby Football Union" and if people want to unofficially nickname us the highlanders or the razorbacks or the stags or what ever they want then its up to them
    • or do we all re brand but have to be after something natural like an animal or a land feature, we'd be the Razorbacks or the Albatross , canterbury can be the Whales...Auckland ...seagulls?...Auckland Volcanoes! and brings back the touch of red they use to have
     
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  14. TRF_heineken

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    Sonny Bill didn't have a problem with the name when he played for the Crusaders. And he's been one of the guys who has been most sympathetic of this tragedy and has been in the news of visiting survivors and helping wherever he can.

    Why not call them the Christchurch Tremors??
     
  15. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    For everyone's sake I hope the Crusaders and NZ government consider more than what Sonny Bill Williams does or does not have a problem with when making decisions of any nature.
     
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  16. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Lol, I meant it in that Sonny Bill isn't a christian, and that the Crusaders were "faith militants" against his religion of choice.

    But now that they are looking at changing the name, why isn't the town's name also in the mix? Will they change it to Muslimmosque? Buddhatemple?
     
  17. The Alpha Bro

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    It's named after Christ Church, Oxford, if they wanted to change the name in that fashion Bluemosque or Masjid Al-Haram would be better but it'd be odd considering that the city has no Islamic origins. I know you're being facetious here but it's a strange way to present anything on this topic, nobody is asking for them to be renamed the Canterbury Saracens.

    The Crusaders was named that because the city had English origins and because of alliteration, the name is only 23 years old and it wouldn't offend anyone to change it. The best argument for keeping the name as is is to not waste a breath on the scum who did it which definitely has its merit. Though it appears to me as if most NZers and Cantabs are either indifferent or want the name changed and it's a chance to honour those who were lost and their families. I read the Canterbury Plainsmen was originally in the running too, not quite as catchy but at least it has relevance to the area.

    I know we're living in the era of outrage and thin skin but I don't think this is one of those times, my initial reaction was indignant too but having read a bit I don't think it'd be off the mark to change the name.
     
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  18. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    Although i'd happily go against the pc brigade in 99% of the cases, this might be the exception. I think this hit the nail in the head.
    I will support everyone's right to chose whatever name they want but good bloody lord that was a poorly chosen name.

    There are other options. South Africa's approach appears to be working fine (except for the kings, maybe?) and i dont see people saying they find them offensive.
    Animals, plants and oddly, natural disasters appear to be safe choices.
     
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  19. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    I understand that. It's a pity that it has come to this, as the Crusaders are synonymous with Super Rugby success. And yes, when the name was picked, I don't think the intention ever was to be offensive to anyone. And while they do have a mascot riding on a horse, in medievil armour and a sword, depicting a Crusader, there were never a connotation of religious disdain towards a specific religion.

    I guess my bias as a christian myself is clouding my judgement on this matter, and perhaps I shouldn't have watched the Kingdom of Heaven movie this past week...
     
  20. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur First XV

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    hmmm let me try something

    "And yes, when the gestapo name was used, i dont think the intention ever was to be offensive to anyone. And while they do have a mascot riding a panther tank, in an SS service uniform and a luger pistol, depicting a swastika, there was never a connotation of religious, racial or cultural disdain towards jews, romas, latins or blacks."
     
  21. Bruce_ma_goose

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    There was a rugby club in Wales called the Crusaders.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusaders_Rugby_League

    Critically, they didn't have armed horseman running around as entertainment and weren't based in a town called Christchurch. New Zealand is a bit of a beacon in terms of treatment and integration with indigenous peoples, so they don't need any finger waving from me.

    But calling them Knights and keeping the horses, or calling them Crusaders but quietly dropping the horses (my preference) would both be appropriate options from my perspective - even though the Crusades are very distant from New Zealand in both time and geography.

    I think an appropriate comparison would be if the Saracens in England introduced the call to prayer as their theme song or got cheerleaders called 'The Jihadis'. I don't think sections of the population would be comfortable with either of those. But just called Saracens? No problem at all.
     
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