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The name?

Tigs Man

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Pretty sure the press know about the history of the crusaders because if they didn't it wouldn't be an issue........
 

Larksea

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it's interesting.
honestly i had no idea what Crusader was in reference too for a long time. Its only the last 10 years or so I have really become interested in History, geography and historical conflict and become more well read in such subjects.
Knowing what I do now I find it hard to fathom why they ever thought it was an appropriate name. Even before the attack. More so because it doesn't really fit in with the region, its not something associated with the region, the people or the time we live in. Maybe when you look back in history the word "crusade" has been mistakenly identified as something related to heroism or the pursuit of a righteous cause.
I say change it, it's just a name.
 

TRF_heineken

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it's interesting.
honestly i had no idea what Crusader was in reference too for a long time. Its only the last 10 years or so I have really become interested in History, geography and historical conflict and become more well read in such subjects.
Knowing what I do now I find it hard to fathom why they ever thought it was an appropriate name. Even before the attack. More so because it doesn't really fit in with the region, its not something associated with the region, the people or the time we live in. Maybe when you look back in history the word "crusade" has been mistakenly identified as something related to heroism or the pursuit of a righteous cause.
I say change it, it's just a name.

It isn't just a name though, it's a brand. It would be changing the name, the logo, the badges, the kits etc...

Batman is the Caped Crusader. But the he has no religious connection. A crusader is perhaps connected to the Crusades of the 1400's. But since then the word "crusader" have been used for other things not connected to religion.

I think it would be better to keep the name, but rather change the look of the the team. Remove any and all religious connections to the brand.

It seems like the team from Christchurch are on a crusade for another Super Rugby title...
 

Jabby

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and that's one of the options they're looking at, keep the name but drop the iconography that firmly connects the team to to Crusading knights
 

Umaga's Witness

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What bothers me about this is that there wasn't really any talk about the Crusaders and whether their name is infringing on religious rights. But now that there was a massive shooting of Muslims in CHRISTchurch, it's somehow linked to the Crusades of yesteryear.

Why are they not talking about changing the town's name either?

Why is this a topic of discussion just because of one moron's stupid act??
The crusaders are modelled off of the crusaders of yesteryear . They have dudes dressed up as the knights of the crusades running around the field on horseback before their games.

I’ve been saying their name isn’t ok since 1996.
 

Umaga's Witness

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Lol, I meant it in that Sonny Bill isn't a christian, and that the Crusaders were "faith militants" against his religion of choice.

But now that they are looking at changing the name, why isn't the town's name also in the mix? Will they change it to Muslimmosque? Buddhatemple?
No, the name Christchurch doesn’t imply a blind need to kill Muslims
 

Umaga's Witness

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I’ve been against the name since 1996. What you have to realise is the whole brand is modelled around the knights of the crusades, not anything to do with the more generic meaning of crusade . What a great time to change it, but I thought I read it isn’t happening.

As i've said before i wasn't one way or the other on it when it was proposed, but after seeing some of the stupid arguments on facebook etc im leaning towards just change it, its only a name

a couple of points
  • It was debated when the name was chosen, there were comment whether it was appropriate, it was just 24 years ago and people have forgotten but various Crusaders management both past and present have confirmed it, so its not just a new thing thats come up in the last two weeks
  • the term crusader is different to the others people are trying to draw comparison too. Chief - leader of the tribe, Highlander - just a scotsman from the highlands but even in our form just a Scottish warrior (or an awesome movie character), warrior = ....warrior, several people have even draw comparison to the hurricane causing damage...the Crusades were specifically a military action against Muslims...those other fighters mentioned above would fight anyone, not one specific group.
  • People have even been claiming this PC madness is worse that the terror attack itself and others are now claiming that even if they get rid of the horses and knights they'll stop going to games...im embarrassed these are New Zealanders....its a bloody game...and its just the name of the team the plays the bloody game
  • maybe its time all the franchises dropped the "names" and reverted to a more traditional rugby brand, we would be the "Otago Southland Rugby Football Union" and if people want to unofficially nickname us the highlanders or the razorbacks or the stags or what ever they want then its up to them
  • or do we all re brand but have to be after something natural like an animal or a land feature, we'd be the Razorbacks or the Albatross , canterbury can be the Whales...Auckland ...seagulls?...Auckland Volcanoes! and brings back the touch of red they use to have
Noting also that the campaign to keep the name and the associated Facebook page and petition was started by a white supremecist group.

edit: I thought this was a new thread. No doubt I’ve just repeated myself. And failed to actually read the one new post
 

bushytop

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Without researching this, which I might actually. I always thought the actual word ‘crusade’ was created well before the religious crusades and was merely ‘used’ by the Holy Roman Church in a form of early propaganda.

In reference to the team and it’s use though, I’m pretty sure they took the name referring to the religious connotation... not so much from the war with Muslims angle but from the fight for Christianity position, it is a clear reference to the city of Christchurch (I honestly dont think there is a more Christian sounding city in the world) and I guess they wanted a brand which connected to that.

We are in a different time now though, and I’d honestly be surprised if they kept the moniker... not that I think they should change it (or shouldn’t for that matter) just that they will.
 
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TRF_heineken

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https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...Xmf0SUPd_CubYE3bJa57Q7-lX2p27r6nbcZxgb7qNusN4

seems like the most logical concession, it speaks to the organisations claim to the definition of the name as someone who fights for a good cause rather than the historical reference

Sanity prevails!

They realised the name isn't just a name, but a brand. It would've been a big mess if they got rid of anything. By removing the knight and the sword, they are essentially removing the religious connotation that comes with it.

With that said, the article mentions, that this was the first step. So it will be interesting to see what they do next. My guess is that they will incorporate some kind of rugby-themed logo.
 

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https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...Xmf0SUPd_CubYE3bJa57Q7-lX2p27r6nbcZxgb7qNusN4

seems like the most logical concession, it speaks to the organisations claim to the definition of the name as someone who fights for a good cause rather than the historical reference

Happy enough with that. Crusaders is not a loaded term, the branding wasnt loaded. It was the combination of the name and the branding that made it loaded, particularly given the name of the city. Removing the knights aspect is sufficient in my book to break the negative connotations.
 

Jabby

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Happy enough with that. Crusaders is not a loaded term, the branding wasnt loaded. It was the combination of the name and the branding that made it loaded, particularly given the name of the city. Removing the knights aspect is sufficient in my book to break the negative connotations.
agreed, they could have just as easily changed the name to the Knights and keep a more generic (less christian) Knight...but i guys the names is whats on all those trophies
 

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Just curious to get feedback from actual Kiwis... what do y’all think about the talk around the Crusaders potentially changing their name?

I have my own thoughts, but I don’t think my opinion is particularly important here... I’m hoping someone wants to share some honest opinions without it becoming an argument.

In the US, we have an NFL team whose name is literally a racial slur, but nobody seems to give a crap. I know this isn’t comparable, really, but it’s the closest I’ve got.

Thanks, friends!
That's not true, i've heard ppl say that the Kansas and Washington NFL sides should change their nicknames. Also it should be law that you have to have an area name before your nickname. Canterbury Orcas?
 

TRF_heineken

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Cruz_del_Sur

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leaked possible option, it is a registered trademark to the NZRU



edit: confirmed....the video make me like it more
This cannot be true. Rubgypass/onslaught must be about to colapse with replies.
Brb
 

TRF_Olyy

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People have already made the new logo into a penis....
The bloke who designed it already made it into two dicks touching
 

Jabby

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Yeah, it’s a bit of an F up...surely they can’t keep it

changing it controversial for a lot of people...the only way to win them over was for it to be awesome...or at least not a laughing stock
 

Umaga's Witness

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They might as well change the name now, to the cocksabers,, and they could keep people with swords riding around the field pregame, with the swords shaped like cocks.
 
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