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The new Super 15 format is kind of bullshit..

ranger

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New Competition Format

The Super Rugby competition will not only expand to 15 teams in 2011, it will also undergo a significant format revamp.

A new three-Conference system will be in place where the five teams within each country will make up nationally-based Conferences and play their four “local†rivals on a home and away basis (eight games in total).

They will also play four of the other five teams in each of the other two Conferences on a home or away basis (another eight games).

This leads to an overall program of 16 games per team in the regular season, as opposed to the current 13 â€" and separate Australian Conference, South African Conference and New Zealand Conference tables will chart the fortunes of teams in each country.

A three-week finals series involving six teams â€" as opposed to the current two-week playoffs for four teams â€" will further increase the length of the season.

At the end of the regular season matches, the top team in each Conference will qualify for the finals.

The other three teams to qualify will be the sides with the most number of competition points â€" regardless in which Conference they are based.

The Conference winners are also ensured of a home finals match. Therefore, at least one finals match will be played in each country each year.

Super Rugby Snapshot

- An increase in overall matches from 94 to 125 (an increase of 33%) A 50% increase in the length of the season in non-World Cup years â€" from 16 weeks to 24 weeks
- A 31% increase in the length of the season in World Cup years â€" from 16 weeks to 21 weeks 40
- Super Rugby regular season matches played in each country each season as opposed to 26 in Australia under the Super 14 structure and 32 or 33 in South Africa and New Zealand
- There will be 20 regular season local derbies in each country as opposed to six in Australia, 10 in South Africa and 10 in New Zealand under the Super 14 format
- Half of all regular season matches will be local derbies
- Each team will play 12 of its 16 regular-season games within its own country â€" with only four matches overseas

Finals Series Facts

- The top team in each Conference will automatically advance to the finals in positions 1, 2 or 3 (depending on their individual competition points totals)
- The other three teams to advance will be those with the highest number of competition points outside of the Conference winners
- The teams qualifying in 4th, 5th and 6th can come from any Conference â€" they could all come from one Conference

- In week one of the finals the teams qualifying 1st and 2nd will rest
- The 3rd placed team, as a Conference winner, will host the 6th placed team in a sudden death Qualifier
- The 4th placed team will host the 5th placed team in another sudden death Qualifier
- The two winners will play the top two sides in Semis the following week
- The winners of the Semis will meet in the Final Super Rugby

New Zealand has always spread their talent around their 5 teams more evenly than the other two SANZAR partners. An NZ team hasn't finished dead last since 1997 and prior to this year a kiwi side hadn't even been in the bottom three in 6 seasons. Now they are being punished for this.

This new system means that if there are crap teams in your conference, then you are at a massive advantage. The fact that the Lions are from SA and are incredibly **** means that every other SA team is all but guaranteed 10 competition points each. Add in the Cheetahs and the chances of 2 or 3 SA teams qualifying looks all the more likely.

Then in Australia we have the sinking ship that is the Force and a team in its very first season in the Rebels, thats easy points for the other Aussie sides.

In NZ they have changed the eligibility rules around to make the Highlanders more competitive, we could see the NZ teams all battling out for roughly even records between themselves (like the ITM cup is turning out) this would see only one NZ team move on to the finals. Take the Crusaders draw for instance, they dont get to play the Lions or the Rebels, that takes away 10 easy points right off the bat.

I just think its a flawed system when the finals spots are decided by competition points, but all the teams are effectively playing in different competitions.
 
Hey Ranger!

Where are you pulling this from? I think you're right in adjudging it to be ill-thought through... Certainly seems an odd way to do it, NFL style.
 
Yep, it's pretty stupid. I'd still be complaining about it if it had worked out to be a disadvantage for Australia or South Africa too. This isn't a fair way to run a competition. Effectively it means that the best 6 teams will not necessarily be in the finals.

Is that really what should be the way forward?
 
Pretty much agree with you, although with key Springboks likely to be rested the Lions and Cheetahs might cause a few upsets at home; both currently ahead of the Bulls in the CC and the Cheetahs can call on some classy players from the Griquas. Mitchell seems to be working wonders with a young Lions team and has the balls to make difficult decisions. Dick Muir always was out of his depth and his cop out with the Lions and the Springboks just proves the point (If SARU doesn't fire PDiv at least get rid of this joker, please?).

That said, the NZ conference is without a doubt the 'conference of death' but since it favours SA teams (who have been disadvataged from a travel perspective since the inception of the super seires as well as our rugby not being as geared towards scoring 4 try bonus points as the Aus/NZ style is, with the Waratahs the exception), can't say that it bugs me much from that perspective. Where I do have problem is with it effectively devaluing the CC and forcing our top players to play more rugby (we will be in the same boat as teh NH soon).
 
Pretty much agree with you, although with key Springboks likely to be rested the Lions and Cheetahs might cause a few upsets at home; both currently ahead of the Bulls in the CC and the Cheetahs can call on some classy players from the Griquas. Mitchell seems to be working wonders with a young Lions team and has the balls to make difficult decisions. Dick Muir always was out of his depth and his cop out with the Lions and the Springboks just proves the point (If SARU doesn't fire PDiv at least get rid of this joker, please?).

That said, the NZ conference is without a doubt the 'conference of death' but since it favours SA teams (who have been disadvataged from a travel perspective since the inception of the super seires as well as our rugby not being as geared towards scoring 4 try bonus points as the Aus/NZ style is, with the Waratahs the exception), can't say that it bugs me much from that perspective. Where I do have problem is with it effectively devaluing the CC and forcing our top players to play more rugby (we will be in the same boat as teh NH soon).

Do you seriously expect any pity for playing **** boring rugby haha?
 
Yep, pretty much agree with all thats been said if getting the six strongest sides into the finals was the aim, but I think its a case of getting bums on seats.

Australian crowds for example, really like to see one state up against another, and are more likely to attend for that reason ... the rugby public in each country should retain interest for longer as at least one of there teams will make the top 6.

more games also equals more television revenue, so all three countries get a benefit there.

Yes South Africa do get a major benefit from having to travel less, but I see Australia being perhaps the major beneficiary here, as the playing of more super games may make up for the lack of a Currie cup/ITM cup type competition
 
Do you seriously expect any pity for playing **** boring rugby haha?

Yes, I've always felt that the fact that there are different routes to victory and the clashes of opposing sttyles fascinating and something that makes rugby the great game it is.

Just had a look at the draw; great draw for the Stormers!- starting with home games and skipping the 'Tahs and 'Canes that although we beat them comfortably this year usually are tricky games. Also we play some of our tougher games at home- Crusaders and Reds. Starting off on a bye is kinda ****, though.

Crusaders probably have drawn the short straw; skipping the Lions and Rebels, LOL. Though they do get the luxury of playing the Sharks and Bulls (SA's 2 strongest) at home. Although the Cheetahs have been a bogey team for them in recent years at Bloemfontein. If they are lucky, Juan Smith will get a rest.
 
Chiefs skip Cheetahs and Force, and play the Bulls and Stormers in SA :(
 
Someone should do a breakdown for each team as it takes a few minutes to check who plays who and which teams they skip.. this is going to be a complicated S15 season.

My 'other' team' (Cheetahs) could have had a better draw; missing teh Force and Chiefs (teams they could have been competitive against). At least they have a home leg leading up to the finals but I can't see them pushing either Stormers, Sharks or Bulls to at least go second in the SA conference; they can upset anyone on the day but they still lack the depth for a 16 game tournament. They have made inroads towards fixing a few leaks but then loosing Bosman and Mapoe (at end of year; pretty much a certainty) to the Sharks will undo the progress made. They should look to sign either Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh (Stormers ahve too many centers) or get Frans Steyn back to play at 12 because that's where the major weakness is.

Very early but:

1 Sharks
2 Crusaders
3 Bulls
4 Reds
5 Stormers
6 ? Brumbies / Hurricanes / Waratahs / Chiefs
 
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At home we get:

- Blues
- Hurricanes
- Brumbies
- Waratahs

Away we get:

- Force
- Rebels
- Chiefs
- Crusaders


We miss out on the Reds and the Highlanders. What a weird way to play a competition. We play in Australia on the 4th and 11th of March (Force & Rebels) and in New Zealand the 18th and 25th of March (Chiefs & Crusaders. This means a 4 week tour basically. This is better than travelling back and forth all the time. With that in mind this is a good set up. It's still weird. I think we have to get used to it. We'll see how it goes and I think it won't be too long before there is a whole new format again with a 16th team joining.
 
Someone should do a breakdown for each team as it takes a few minutes to check who plays who and which teams they skip.. this is going to be a complicated S15 season.

My 'other' team' (Cheetahs) could have had a better draw; missing teh Force and Chiefs (teams they could have been competitive against). At least they have a home leg leading up to the finals but I can't see them pushing either Stormers, Sharks or Bulls to at least go second in the SA conference; they can upset anyone on the day but they still lack the depth for a 16 game tournament. They have made inroads towards fixing a few leaks but then loosing Bosman and Mapoe (at end of year; pretty much a certainty) to the Sharks will undo the progress made. They should look to sign either Jean de Villiers, Juan de Jongh (Stormers ahve too many centers) or get Frans Steyn back to play at 12 because that's where the major weakness is.

Very early but:

1 Sharks
2 Crusaders
3 Bulls
4 Reds
5 Stormers
6 ? Brumbies / Hurricanes / Waratahs / Chiefs

With both the Rebels and the Force in the Australian conference there is no way that there will be only one Australian representative. The Brumbies have a great draw and the Tahs isnt too bad either.. If the draw was set out like it was last year i would put money on both the Hurricanes and Crusaders making the top four with the Crusaders topping the table. Now that this fiasco is going on? i think they are both battling it out for the guaranteed NZ spot, the team that comes second probably wont make the 6.

Why can't they just take the top 2 teams from each country? thats still stupid but at least its a little bit fairer.
 
Well, what is fair?

- Teams qualifying based on their location (2 of each conference)
- Teams qualifying based on the results against their domestic opponents

I think in this format nothing is completely fair. I do like the idea that all 3 countries have at least 1 team in the play-offs. Seeing the Lions and Cheetahs as the weaker teams in the Super Rugby league means that probably the Sharks and Bulls will make the play-offs with maybe even the Stormers as the 3rd team. When you have a conference like in NZ with teams being more able to beat eachother, you guys will spill points with the chance of dropping out of the play-offs for the nr. 2
 
Agreed on the play-offs being a bit unbalanced. I would have made it a top 8 play-off system with the top 2 from each conference and the next 2 top qualifiers with QF, semi's and then a final. I mean, there's going to be 3 weeks of play-offs in any case so while you're looking to milk the cow for all its worth in any case, why not go all the way?

All said, I can't see a way in for the Southern Kings. Not until the Argies come on board and the format needs a revamp anyway at least.
 
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Well, what is fair?

- Teams qualifying based on their location (2 of each conference)
- Teams qualifying based on the results against their domestic opponents

I think in this format nothing is completely fair. I do like the idea that all 3 countries have at least 1 team in the play-offs. Seeing the Lions and Cheetahs as the weaker teams in the Super Rugby league means that probably the Sharks and Bulls will make the play-offs with maybe even the Stormers as the 3rd team. When you have a conference like in NZ with teams being more able to beat eachother, you guys will spill points with the chance of dropping out of the play-offs for the nr. 2

Well qualifying based on location sounds fairer to me.. then every country has equal representation and the loophole wherein you get the advantage because there are crap teams in your conference gets taken away.
 
Well, what is fair?

- Teams qualifying based on their location (2 of each conference)
- Teams qualifying based on the results against their domestic opponents

I think in this format nothing is completely fair. I do like the idea that all 3 countries have at least 1 team in the play-offs. Seeing the Lions and Cheetahs as the weaker teams in the Super Rugby league means that probably the Sharks and Bulls will make the play-offs with maybe even the Stormers as the 3rd team. When you have a conference like in NZ with teams being more able to beat eachother, you guys will spill points with the chance of dropping out of the play-offs for the nr. 2

True. I would be surprised not to see 2 SA teams in the play-offs. Might be 3 if all 3 top SA teams manage to beat the Cheetahs and Lions well and win most of their other games, especially against the top Aus teams. That said I will also be surprised if both Cheetahs and Lions don't take a surprise scalp or two- hopefully off of the Australasian teams. My guess would be the Bulls and Sharks. If FdP plays anyway, otherwise WP and Sharks. Sharks squad ridiculously strong next year and they have the depth to deal with a few injuries:

John Smit
Bismarck du Plessis
Jannie du Plessis
Allistair Hargreaves
Steven Sykes
Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Conrad Hoffman
Patrick Lambie
Lwazi Mvovo
Stefan Terblanche
Lionel Mapoe
JP Pietersen
Louis Ludik

Tendai Mtawarira
Craig Burden
Ross Skeate
Willem Alberts
Rory Kockott
Jacques Louis Potgieter
Odwa Ndungane

Anyways, Aus must be laughing their arses off; an extra team, a substitue for a domestic comp with the extended conference home snd away games (to the detriment of the CC and ITM) and in all probability two teams in the play-offs: I'm picking teh Reds and Brumbies. Ah, well, at least we're not worse off than the Kiwi's as our top teams get a pretty good deal and the travel factor gets negated to a large extent.
 
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True. I would be surprised not to see 2 SA teams in the play-offs. Might be 3 if all 3 top SA teams manage to beat the Cheetahs and Lions well and win most of their other games, especially against the top Aus teams. That said I will also be surprised if both Cheetahs and Lions don't take a surprise scalp or two- hopefully off of the Australasian teams. My guess would be the Bulls and Sharks. If FdP plays anyway, otherwise WP and Sharks. Sharks squad ridiculously strong next year and they have the depth to deal with a few injuries:

John Smit
Bismarck du Plessis
Jannie du Plessis
Allistair Hargreaves
Steven Sykes
Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Conrad Hoffman
Patrick Lambie
Lwazi Mvovo
Stefan Terblanche
Lionel Mapoe
JP Pietersen
Louis Ludik

Tendai Mtawarira
Craig Burden
Ross Skeate
Willem Alberts
Rory Kockott
Jacques Louis Potgieter
Odwa Ndungane

Anyways, Aus must be laughing their arses off; an extra team, a substitue for a domestic comp with the extended conference home snd away games (to the detriment of the CC and ITM) and in all probability two teams in the play-offs: I'm picking teh Reds and Brumbies. Ah, well, at least we're not worse off than the Kiwi's as our top teams get a pretty good deal and the travel factor gets negated to a large extent.

I see your strong Sharks team, and raise you a ridiculously strong Crusaders outfit.

1)B.Franks
2)Flynn
3)O.Franks
4)S.Whitelock
5)Thorn
6)G.Whitelock
7)McCaw
8)Read
9)Ellis
10)Carter
11)Guildford
12)SB Williams
13)Fruean
14)Maitland
15)Dagg

16)Crockett
17)Draft player
18)Jack
19)Manu
20)Fotuaili'i
21)Brett
22)Veainu

Thats 14 current or former All Blacks, with a 15th (Isaac Ross) unable to crack the 22. Fruean, SBW and Maitland cant be far off Black jerseys either. If they dont top the NZ conference it will be a massive choke.
 
What's the chance of Crusaders losing to the Cheetahs, AGAIN!

Hehe. Love it when that happens.
 
I see your strong Sharks team, and raise you a ridiculously strong Crusaders outfit.

1)B.Franks
2)Flynn
3)O.Franks
4)S.Whitelock
5)Thorn
6)G.Whitelock
7)McCaw
8)Read
9)Ellis
10)Carter
11)Guildford
12)SB Williams
13)Fruean
14)Maitland
15)Dagg

16)Crockett
17)Draft player
18)Jack
19)Manu
20)Fotuaili'i
21)Brett
22)Veainu

Thats 14 current or former All Blacks, with a 15th (Isaac Ross) unable to crack the 22. Fruean, SBW and Maitland cant be far off Black jerseys either. If they dont top the NZ conference it will be a massive choke.

Yep, that's a strong looking team - have the complete squads been announced yet ... I read that Graham Henry has asked that the top All Blacks be carefully managed to ensure that they are fresh for RWC, Ewen McKenzie said he was going to rotate Genia and Cooper in and out of the match day squads ... obviously the squad depth is going to be more of an issue with the increased number of games
 

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