The power of christ compels you

[Canadian_Rugby_Guy]

Not always. But like any mortal organization there is some corruption, HOWEVER, this does not mean you should go around hammering on religions. They have flaws, but we're all intelligent, therefore we shouldn't have any problems.

 

[Ripper]

Whats are the old saying?

Persons are smart... but people are stupid?

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

Originally posted by sanzar+Feb 10 2005, 01:14 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Feb 10 2005, 01:14 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 10 2005, 12:32 AM
There is only one God.

same as corporate world? won't aggree on that. No clue why you have that idea.

God is in charge, you can bet that. To argue the way He runs things is tempting fate, how can one argue with your creator about how he shaped you and the world you live in. When he decided that one shall not go around killing people, then obey. He knows better than we do, just accept what HE decides.

Where did I say I have a problem with god? No, I said I have a problem with organised religeon. Wheather you like it or not the Bible was written by MEN some 200 years after the death of Christ and then edited and changed over time... it was not merely drafted by god and handed down from heaven for publishing... It is men who have interpreted and decided what god means and is, and regardless of the abilities they claim to have, it is men with the agenda... not god. Do you truly believe god truly requires us to worship him and smite his enemies for passage into heaven? And what do you actually believe heaven is? What will you do when see it? [/b]

ok, but as I see it, when you don't want to accept what He has laid before you, then you have a problem with Him. The people who wrote the original text, was messengers, prohets and the like from God, it weren't some power hungry politicians.

The old testimant scrolls was written long before the coming of Christ, loooooong before...In the new testimant, the first few books was written by people whom traveled with Jesus, there after, mostly by Paul and the rest of the messengers God appointed to spread The Gospel...Than men were close followers of God, their not the type you refer them to...If you think they had their own agenda, forget that theory, it's utter nonsense.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Do you truly believe god truly requires us to worship him and smite his enemies for passage into heaven?[/b]

God doesn't need us, for anything. But He made us and loves us, so he gives us a chance to get into heaven. The other option was to leave us for the devil.
We have to worship God, but that alone won't get you into heaven.

We have to do the opposite of smiting his enemies, we must try our utmost to get them saved from eternal torture. Why do you think I'm trying to make you all see the truth?
A person who doesn't try to live God's way and accept Jesus' sacrifice for you, won't enter heaven. Don't think for one minute that there's a loop-hole in the system to get into heaven...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

And what do you actually believe heaven is?[/b]

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

What will you do when see it?[/b]

When I see it, what do you mean. I'm going to live there!
I'm going to praise God for what he gave us!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Organised religeon is all about growth and power. Just look at the Catholic Church.[/b]

Jesus refered to the church as his family, not an building and organization...so the catholics has kinda lost that bit. He wanted the meeting of christians to be orderly, i.o.w. not a free-for-all talking session where everyone talks at the same time. The catholics missinterpreted the obvious and formed an orginization. NOW, on that we can aggree. BUT, you can get christians in a catholic church, but, I don't aggree with thier church->orginization thinking and setup. I understand where you get those ideas. Please don't think I'm part of one of these strange orginizations with their own rules.


An Tarbh:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I don't mean to be flippant but my parents created me and I argue with them plenty, whether they know better than me is debateable. It is up to me whm I decide to respect and whether that respect is deserved. If God told you to jump off a cliff would you do it?[/b]

Your parents ain't God.

You can't compare your sily arguments and dissrespect with your parents, to that with God. Your parents was only a tool to get you here, but the one who controls the tool...that's what matters. Your creator and the means to your creation is different things.
It's not up to you to dissrespect and be disobedient to God! Trust me on that one. You'll be sorry one day if you keep on living with that concept intact untill your end.

God knows much more than you can ever imagine!
If He asked me to jump, wich He probably won't, then I will gladly do it, at the end of the jump awaits heaven

 

[An Tarbh]

Interesting, you dismiss my points and don't answer my question. Are you a politician?

 

[captainamerica]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
God doesn't need us, for anything. But He made us and loves us, so he gives us a chance to get into heaven.

God needs us to live in harmony on his creation -- otherwise there is no point to our existence and there is no point in His 'love' for us.

The kicker is that this means accepting all differences, especially the ones that call God by different names. By not believing that Buddhists and Muslims etc 'go to heaven' (from an earlier post in this thread) -- you effectively shun and dismiss your fellow human beings who either just happened to grow up in a certain part of the world that god's only son didn't get a chance to visit or were visited by another prophet altogether.

Whether you deem them valid is of no consequence. These are beliefs -- just like yours. And as the great Bill Hicks tells us, "Beliefs are things you have been taught." That's it. If we transported you to India for your birth, you'd be singing the praises of cows.

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
We have to do the opposite of smiting his enemies, we must try our utmost to get them saved from eternal torture. Why do you think I'm trying to make you all see the truth?

God does not have enemies. He's god. Even the atheists on our planet, they can tell god to go to hell (which is really funny if you think about it) but it doesn't make them enemies of god. Why? . . .

(Come on! Sing it with me!) "God's all about love."

Now as far as making people see the truth -- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Why don't you worry about living your life according to the virtues of god (being a good human, unconditional loving, etc) and you'll set a great example for people to follow . . . instead of ramming it down our throats.

You keep using Fear: "you won't enter heaven," "eternal torture," "you won't be saved!" -- When did God become all about Fear? Shame on you for using scare tactics to try and get us to bask in the glory and love of God which we are all entitled to to begin with.

Jesus didn't ram it down our throats. He lived, and the way he lived set the example. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and start enjoying the life God gave you on this Earth while you're here. It's one of his many, many gifts to us -- don't dismiss it.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

And what do you actually believe heaven is?

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.
[/b][/quote]
This is one of my main problems with extremists beliefs like yourself. Because by your reckoning, 100,000 years of generations of Aboriginal Australians (and any other indigenous society) would all go to hell for worshiping false gods and not accepting Jesus... Correct me if I'm wrong, but no tribal society that has left alone will be able to enter heaven due to their "incorrect" beliefs... That sounds awfully like the word of man to me, there is no god there.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by captainamerica+Feb 11 2005, 07:10 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (captainamerica @ Feb 11 2005, 07:10 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM

We have to do the opposite of smiting his enemies, we must try our utmost to get them saved from eternal torture. Why do you think I'm trying to make you all see the truth?

God does not have enemies. He's god. Even the atheists on our planet, they can tell god to go to hell (which is really funny if you think about it) but it doesn't make them enemies of god. Why? . . .

(Come on! Sing it with me!) "God's all about love."

Now as far as making people see the truth -- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Why don't you worry about living your life according to the virtues of god (being a good human, unconditional loving, etc) and you'll set a great example for people to follow . . . instead of ramming it down our throats.

You keep using Fear: "you won't enter heaven," "eternal torture," "you won't be saved!" -- When did God become all about Fear? Shame on you for using scare tactics to try and get us to bask in the glory and love of God which we are all entitled to to begin with.
[/b]

Exactly! This is why I say these extremists are like big buisiness executives who are tryin to sell a product. Because when the product won't convince people on it's on merits they resort to fear mongoring and other unholy rubbish and it ends up driving more people away than bringing them closer.

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

An Tarbh, Interesting, you dismiss the answer and don't read the point. Are you a reading right?

captainamerica, your missing it a bit.
first sanzar said

Do you truly believe god truly requires us to worship him and smite his enemies for passage into heaven?

I said no, He doesn't NEED us for anything, He can leave this creation for doom if he wanted, But he loves us and wants to save us from the devil, that's the point of our existence. In the end he will doom the devil to everlasting hell, and everyone who didn't want to live God's way. If you imitate the devils way, you will go with him into eternity, if you imitate God's way, then you will go to God for eternity. You will go to the father you worship, Jesus or else the devil. Makes perfect sense. He gives you the oppertunity, if you fail, it's your bad.

The kicker is that this means accepting all differences

Yes, wich inturn means that it's the Christians duty to try and show them that Jesus can save their soul. I accept everyones differences, everyone has a soul that must be saved. I don't want anyone to burn in hell forever! I accept differences, I don't accept not trying to save someones soul, surely your smart enough to see the difference. If I am ignorant to everyone who is unsaved, then I am leaving their soul to burn...

especially the ones that call God by different names.  By not believing that Buddhists and Muslims etc 'go to heaven' (from an earlier post in this thread) -- you effectively shun and dismiss your fellow human beings

There's just one God, and just one Jesus Christ. They who live by God's rule, and believe in Christ as their saviour, will be saved. The Musslims and Buddhists refer to someone different, they don't call God by different names...
It certainly isn't shunning, it's just showing that their misslead and must be saved. If I walk into one of them, I will try and convince them to be saved.

Whether you deem them valid is of no consequence.  These are beliefs -- just like yours.  And as the great Bill Hicks tells us, "Beliefs are things you have been taught."  That's it.  If we transported you to India for your birth, you'd be singing the praises of cows.

The difference is, Christians believe in the truth, the rest in lies.
Wow, this Bill Hicks was great

, now he just should have added: "but it isn't nessecarily the truth" . I've seen enough and know enough to be 100% convinced.
There's christians in India, just like we might find a few there where you live. One can be saved anywhere, your just more likely to hear the truth in certain place.
In the end, God will let justice prevail, so those who never heard the truth, well, it's up to Him to decide, but, you've heard it.

God does not have enemies

What about Satan...
fallen angels...
and all the devils followers here on earth...
But, all those followers can change their way at any second and become friends with God again.
All people on earth can BECOME friends with God, enter his family, enter heaven, because of the blood of Jesus Christ. Surely you know this. That was the whole point.

He's god.  Even the atheists on our planet, they can tell god to go to hell (which is really funny if you think about it) but it doesn't make them enemies of god.  Why? . . .

(Come on!  Sing it with me!)  "God's all about love."

I beg to differ. People who are against God is his enemies, but his LOVE gives them the oppertunity to change that...thats what it's all about. Thats why Jesus said "love your enemies" , try and get them saved. Makes perfect sense. Because of love try and save your enemy. As shown by example by Christ.

Now as far as making people see the truth -- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Sad but true.
I'M NOT FORCING ANYTHING DOWN ON ANYONE! I've tried to express the truth in my views. I cannot hold back God's Good News from anyone. I'll keep on praying for all the lost souls in the world. It's your decision to accept, I'm just trying to help,

Why don't you worry about living your life according to the virtues of god (being a good human, unconditional loving, etc) and you'll set a great example for people to follow . . . instead of ramming it down our throats. 

Well I am living that. If you felt any ramming, I didn't meant it, but, remember that the virtues of God includes trying to get souls saved

But what about you trying to say that everything christian is false, and my views are wrong, sounds all to much like ramming from yourself

You keep using Fear: "you won't enter heaven," "eternal torture," "you won't be saved!"  -- When did God become all about Fear?  Shame on you for using scare tactics to try and get us to bask in the glory and love of God which we are all entitled to to begin with.

Since the beginning, not living in God's will was all about fear. It didn't just suddenly become so. Shame on you for ignoring that

Let me tell you, living in God's will has happiness, fearlessnes of death, calmness and expectation of the future in heaven. It's great living, and I mentioned it before numerous times. Warning someone about hell is no shamefull act. The scare got me converted, I asked for forgiveness for the terrible life I lived, it was forgiven, then came the thanks everyday for the saving of my soul. For the saved, heaven awaits, and praise and thanks for God comes natuaraly.

Get converted for the sake that God is holy and glorious. Or for the other, in that you see that to, and that's why you would change your way. Either way, it's a smart choice.

Everyone alive still have the choice to be saved!

Jesus didn't ram it down our throats.  He lived, and the way he lived set the example.

And when the Farisees argued with him, he didn't stand back and say "OK, your right", no, he showed them the truth every time.
When I don't aggree with your view, and I share my view, it's not called ramming

Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and start enjoying the life God gave you on this Earth while you're here.  It's one of his many, many gifts to us -- don't dismiss it.

I've started enjoying it looooong ago, living in God's will pushed up the enjoyment factor, why, because eternal happiness awaits in heaven. Our life here on earth is a test, try your utmost to pass it, the reward is what counts. Endurance=focusing on the goal at the end of the task.
It's a gift to us -- dont's missuse it

If God can entrust you with your life on earth, He can entrust you with your life in heaven

Exactly! This is why I say these extremists are like big buisiness executives who are tryin to sell a product. Because when the product won't convince people on it's on merits they resort to fear mongoring and other unholy rubbish and it ends up driving more people away than bringing them closer.

The product is perfect, get saved from hell and get eternal happiness for...wait...not $1bil...not $1mil...but boys and girls...if you accept it now you can get it all for ABSOLUTELY FREE!!!

It's not a product, it's the truth, how do you put a price-tag on that. If you see it as fear mongering, shame, but the truth can hurt

In the end it's your choice what you do with your life.

I will defend my views, don't expect me to lay down for your sake, that's not what is expected of me.

 

[captainamerica]

Dawie, I can admit that I'm not the greatest Catholic, but I am a Catholic with slightly tweaked (read: more humane) views.

What I'm having trouble with is that a lot of things are black and white for you, especially in regards to other religions. That there is no grey area that kind of blurs distinctions.

I know for a fact that not one person is better than any other person on this Earth -- and that we are all truly equal in the eyes of God (He did create everyone, right?). How you can say their beliefs are mislead is frightening. And with the exception of Muslims, all other religions have been around a lot longer than Christianity. Surely you've examined other religions, examined their respective teachings -- the overall message is love and respect for their fellow human beings, and being a better person.

It's extremists who turn the word into a weapon.

It's extremists who turn things into a cock-waving contest -- mine's better, mine's bigger, mine is the one true cock!

You believe certain people are mislead. Certain believe you are mislead.
"No, what I believe is the truth."
"No, what I believe is the truth."
This will continue on like the great Monty Python 'Argument Sketch.' (If you don't know it, check it out, very funny.)

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by sanzar+Feb 11 2005, 11:48 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Feb 11 2005, 11:48 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

And what do you actually believe heaven is?

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.
[/b]

This is one of my main problems with extremists beliefs like yourself. Because by your reckoning, 100,000 years of generations of Aboriginal Australians (and any other indigenous society) would all go to hell for worshiping false gods and not accepting Jesus... Correct me if I'm wrong, but no tribal society that has left alone will be able to enter heaven due to their "incorrect" beliefs... That sounds awfully like the word of man to me, there is no god there. [/b][/quote]
Oi Dawie mate, you didn't come up with an answer to this bit yet.

 

[raziel_eire]

I'm Spartacus !!!

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

What I'm having trouble with is that a lot of things are black and white for you, especially in regards to other religions.  That there is no grey area that kind of blurs distinctions.[/b]

I believe. it's my view...that there's no gray area. If you don't aggree, it's your own issue, I'm just sharing my belief. "Because you where neither warm or cold, but luke warm, I will spit you out of my mouth"
Your lack of knowledge about your own catholic beliefs is confusing. Do you take any seriousness in the meaning of life?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I know for a fact that not one person is better than any other person on this Earth -- and that we are all truly equal in the eyes of God (He did create everyone, right?).[/b]

I aggree 100%!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

How you can say their beliefs are mislead is frightening.[/b]

Because I believe there's only one answer to life, only one God. That's not frightening.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

And with the exception of Muslims, all other religions have been around a lot longer than Christianity.[/b]

Well, Christianity started with Jesus Christ, before that, there was the prophets and other telling us about God and the coming of Christ. The whole religion pre Christ is the only one in excistence they cannot find the origen of, the only one supported by science. The only one that can make sense to me, the only one that can make sense to me to believe.
Just go and watch those videos for a start, then you will know alot more, after that I will refer you to a few good books.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Surely you've examined other religions, examined their respective teachings -- the overall message is love and respect for their fellow human beings, and being a better person.[/b]

Most of them have love and respect. Then you get the muslims who believe that killing a Christian is the ultimate act...Satanists who believe that even stronger, and are so mad at God for no reason that they want to kill just about anyone.
Luckily for God's family, God will protect us from it when it's His will.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

It's extremists who turn the word into a weapon.[/b]

To help save the lost, nothing wrong with that.

The Word has always been a message of love, the truth, warning after warning, and has explenations of how to use it as a weapon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

It's extremists who turn things into a cock-waving contest -- mine's better, mine's bigger, mine is the one true cock![/b]

If you don't take any of your beliefs serious, you won't fit into any of the religions. If you follow one of them, then your obviously convinced in your belief, sooooo, when someone comes to you and tells you that your wrong, like your doing, then your natural response will be "no, I don't aggree with you".
Theres no superlative form, no better or bigger. The world is based on true or false. Your belief, is what you think is true. And, I believe that my belief is the truth, naturally. Not exactly rocket science.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

You believe certain people are mislead.  Certain believe you are mislead. 
"No, what I believe is the truth." 
"No, what I believe is the truth." 
This will continue on like the great Monty Python 'Argument Sketch.' (If you don't know it, check it out, very funny.)[/b]

Naturally.

Where just sharing our views in this thread

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

Originally posted by sanzar+Feb 12 2005, 11:31 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Feb 12 2005, 11:31 AM)</div>

Originally posted by sanzar@Feb 11 2005, 11:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

And what do you actually believe heaven is?

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.

This is one of my main problems with extremists beliefs like yourself. Because by your reckoning, 100,000 years of generations of Aboriginal Australians (and any other indigenous society) would all go to hell for worshiping false gods and not accepting Jesus... Correct me if I'm wrong, but no tribal society that has left alone will be able to enter heaven due to their "incorrect" beliefs... That sounds awfully like the word of man to me, there is no god there. [/b]

Oi Dawie mate, you didn't come up with an answer to this bit yet. [/b][/quote]
I think I did...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

There's christians in India, just like we might find a few there where you live. One can be saved anywhere, your just more likely to hear the truth in certain place.
In the end, God will let justice prevail, so those who never heard the truth, well, it's up to Him to decide, but, you've heard it.[/b]

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter+Feb 12 2005, 10:15 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DawieDieKabouter @ Feb 12 2005, 10:15 PM)</div>

Originally posted by sanzar@Feb 12 2005, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by sanzar@Feb 11 2005, 11:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

And what do you actually believe heaven is?

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.

This is one of my main problems with extremists beliefs like yourself. Because by your reckoning, 100,000 years of generations of Aboriginal Australians (and any other indigenous society) would all go to hell for worshiping false gods and not accepting Jesus... Correct me if I'm wrong, but no tribal society that has left alone will be able to enter heaven due to their "incorrect" beliefs... That sounds awfully like the word of man to me, there is no god there.

Oi Dawie mate, you didn't come up with an answer to this bit yet. [/b]

I think I did...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

There's christians in India, just like we might find a few there where you live. One can be saved anywhere, your just more likely to hear the truth in certain place.
In the end, God will let justice prevail, so those who never heard the truth, well, it's up to Him to decide, but, you've heard it.[/b]

[/b][/quote]
If you think that sufficiently answers my question, well your not reading it correctly my south african friend...
Tell me how many Christian missionaries were in Australia to teach the aboriginals 80,000 years ago? There weren't any christians back then or for several hundred millenia before... Did all these primitive (and much more ecologically friendly) peoples go to hell because they never met Jesus and thus instead believed in what you claim are false gods?

I await a response that adaquetly answers this question.

 

[kinkon89]

Originally posted by THE CHIROPRACTOR101+Feb 6 2005, 12:34 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (THE CHIROPRACTOR101 @ Feb 6 2005, 12:34 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-An Tarbh

@Feb 4 2005, 10:11 PM
So then do you believe that no matter what our religion is we will all end up in the Christian concept of Heaven?

yes but not you...ur going to hell

....i dont believe any of us r truly going to heaven...i believe we go to dust our bones wait...then theres the final battle btween God/satan...God opens a can of whup-ass upon thy evil one...ressurects everyone...even neh....and then proceeds with a lecture...captain america...u r a fag...with small nuts...u didnt believe in me...there for u suk and shall suk in hell....with michael jackson

...among others....all the good ones get there boarding passes to paradise and shall live happily ever-after..IN THE PERFECT FORM THAT WAS ADAM AND EVON...... [/b]

omg lol lol lol i cudnt stop laughing at that *sigh*..............rofl haaaahahaaaahaha!!

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

Originally posted by sanzar+Feb 12 2005, 10:40 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sanzar @ Feb 12 2005, 10:40 PM)</div>

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 12 2005, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by sanzar@Feb 12 2005, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by sanzar@Feb 11 2005, 11:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-DawieDieKabouter

@Feb 11 2005, 05:19 AM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

And what do you actually believe heaven is?

That's where my soul will go when I die because I'm saved.

A place where the saved will live with God forever, a place with no worries, no sin and the like. The ultimate destination.
The other option is the opposite. Hell, when your not saved. Eternal torture and fire. Enough said.

This is one of my main problems with extremists beliefs like yourself. Because by your reckoning, 100,000 years of generations of Aboriginal Australians (and any other indigenous society) would all go to hell for worshiping false gods and not accepting Jesus... Correct me if I'm wrong, but no tribal society that has left alone will be able to enter heaven due to their "incorrect" beliefs... That sounds awfully like the word of man to me, there is no god there.

Oi Dawie mate, you didn't come up with an answer to this bit yet.

I think I did...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

There's christians in India, just like we might find a few there where you live. One can be saved anywhere, your just more likely to hear the truth in certain place.
In the end, God will let justice prevail, so those who never heard the truth, well, it's up to Him to decide, but, you've heard it.[/b]

[/b]

If you think that sufficiently answers my question, well your not reading it correctly my south african friend...
Tell me how many Christian missionaries were in Australia to teach the aboriginals 80,000 years ago? There weren't any christians back then or for several hundred millenia before... Did all these primitive (and much more ecologically friendly) peoples go to hell because they never met Jesus and thus instead believed in what you claim are false gods?

I await a response that adaquetly answers this question. [/b][/quote]
as I said, and will repeat again, God will let justice prevail, it's His decision. What I think His decision will be, isn't of importance. If that's not sufficient enough, then your asking the wrong questions. The question is about your soul, that should be your first question in life.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter+Feb 14 2005, 12:36 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DawieDieKabouter @ Feb 14 2005, 12:36 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-sanzar

@Feb 12 2005, 10:40 PM

If you think that sufficiently answers my question, well your not reading it correctly my south african friend...
Tell me how many Christian missionaries were in Australia to teach the aboriginals 80,000 years ago? There weren't any christians back then or for several hundred millenia before... Did all these primitive (and much more ecologically friendly) peoples go to hell because they never met Jesus and thus instead believed in what you claim are false gods?

I await a response that adaquetly answers this question.

as I said, and will repeat again, God will let justice prevail, it's His decision. What I think His decision will be, isn't of importance. If that's not sufficient enough, then your asking the wrong questions. The question is about your soul, that should be your first question in life. [/b]

A minute ago you were saying that we'd all go to hell if we didn't immediately convert to christianity and live a life acoording to your views...
They seem like they are the wrong question purely because you can't provide a good enough answer...

 

[DawieDieKabouter]

It doesn't seem like a good enough answer to you because you can't get yourself to think further than what you want to hear. You want a answer where I say that everyone will go to a happy place, well, that's not what I believe.
When I tell you what I believe the answer to that is, then you all say it's fear mongering, when I give a subtle answer, then it's not good enough.
well then, here goes.
We were all on our way to hell unless we could get ourself to do almost nothing wrong threw our whole life, and live a life close to God, like Abraham. Very difficult. We were born in a sin-full world. That is the inheritence Adam, Eve and Satan left for the world. Then God gave us an oppertunity to skip all that AND get eternity in heaven. A choice to make an instant decision to live for God, get forgiven by the blood of God's son, Jesus Christ. The wages of sin is death! For those who didn't recieve the Good News, it's a sorry story, for the millions who have recieved it, it's a glorius event. God didn't have to save anyone, but He gave alot the oppertunity to prove themselves. To those who look up to heaven and ask for the creator of all to show Him to them, show them the way, God will probably make the message come accross their path. I've heard of stories where secluded tribes get reached by missionaries after such events. Today, missionaries are going out and working everywhere, spreading the Gospel. Just look at how much effort Paul put in to kickstart the whole process. Today it's easier and the Good News is spreading. At present, in China, there are +-25000 people getting converted every day.

But, still you are missing the plot. You are asking what about the other people but not about yourself. Living in God's will, His christian family, is the most peacfull thing your soul can experience, knowing that He is there for you, that He will let you enter heaven for a life-time of no worries. Just think of that.

I was at points in my life where I was at the brink of suicide, all that hold me back is that deep down I knew I would be going to hell. Pot influenced my mind to believe some strange religous ideas. Booz made me do some seriously stupid stuff, also almost costing my life, and in one instance almost giving me AIDS(in a bizzarre twist of events). I was living my own selfish life. But after doing almost everything wrong, God made me realize that change is needed, that I was on the path to hell.
God then spared me.
It took an instance to get it all forgiven, to turn to God and get what was missing in my life.
With repentance, the will to do wrongfull things got broken aswell.
Ask yourself, why wouldn't one want to change. This life is filled with happyness.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 14 2005, 04:22 AM
It doesn't seem like a good enough answer to you because you can't get yourself to think further than what you want to hear. You want a answer where I say that everyone will go to a happy place, well, that's not what I believe.

No, I don't want or need to hear that at all, I don't believe in heaven or hell, to me they are ridiculous human inventions for those unwilling to accept reality...
No, what I want to hear, is for you to justify to me how by your standards a primitive tribal society with no knowledge of the civilised world (they are still out there believe it or not!) would go to hell simply on the basis that they never heard of jesus or understood your belief system... Because that is effectively what people like you are saying "If you do not follow the word of our lord Jesus Christ you will be condemmed for all eternity"... you yourself have made statements to this effect: <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

For those who didn't recieve the Good News, it's a sorry story[/b]

So what I'm asking is what sort of evil and horrible religeon would argue that anyone who does not see eye to eye with their beliefs are damned...
You keep talking about the ease with which the word of god can be received in modern times... Well you still haven't explained to me how your god would have dealt with the thousands of generations of tribal and non civilised peoples that just happened to be in the wrong part of the world and the wrong time period (I'm talking 80,000 years ago here).
I don't want you to tell me they will all go to heaven, I don't need to hear that, if you think they will go to hell as sinners, then say so, but in doing so you will admit a fatal flaw in your belief system.

 

[sanzar]

Originally posted by DawieDieKabouter@Feb 14 2005, 04:22 AM
I was at points in my life where I was at the brink of suicide, all that hold me back is that deep down I knew I would be going to hell. Pot influenced my mind to believe some strange religous ideas. Booz made me do some seriously stupid stuff, also almost costing my life, and in one instance almost giving me AIDS(in a bizzarre twist of events). I was living my own selfish life. But after doing almost everything wrong, God made me realize that change is needed, that I was on the path to hell.
God then spared me.
It took an instance to get it all forgiven, to turn to God and get what was missing in my life.
With repentance, the will to do wrongfull things got broken aswell.
Ask yourself, why wouldn't one want to change. This life is filled with happyness.

I must say I found this part interesting... You talk about a rock bottom, then a religeous awakening... This is begining to sound far less spiritual and much more psycological... You abused substances and destroyed body and soul, then when it got to breaking point you had to stop. God didn't spare you, as god does not intervene... You needed to believe something like that to stop you from doing terrible things, I don't and neither do millions of others out there! We live our lives in peace and hold our values dear... In what way does the fact that WE were not careless and uncontrollable and therefor did not have this "religeous" experience make us any more doomed for the lake of fire than yourself... We may have never done anything close to the horrible things you speak of, but some how the fact that we have not begged forgiveness for our own comparably smaller imperfections makes us doomed?