The Reconstruction of Irish Rugby 2016

[Leonormous Boozer]

For all your gripes with Irish international rugby in 2016, how will Joe rebuild after Argentina dismantling all we thought we knew about our national team!

1st training squad of the new year was announced there, 45 players yet Ringrose is still a bit of a shock inclusion, I can't see him going further than this squad this season though.

 

[munstermuffin]

For all your gripes with Irish international rugby in 2016, how will Joe rebuild after Argentina dismantling all we thought we knew about our national team!

1st training squad of the new year was announced there, 45 players yet Ringrose is still a bit of a shock inclusion, I can't see him going further than this squad this season though.

Backs (22) -
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Noel Reid (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (Racing 92)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)


Forwards (23) -


Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster)
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) *
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) *
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)

On this no Ulster or Munster players are in camp for first meeting (Sunday - Tuesday) because of rescheduled European games.

Also that squad posted is wrong.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

On this no Ulster or Munster players are in camp for first meeting (Sunday - Tuesday) because of rescheduled European games.

Also that squad posted is wrong.

Hangovers! I'll change it!

 

[Peat]

Can't see any actual squad announcement? Just an Indo article saying Ringrose will be there. Van der Flier also in for the Sunday meet-up.

Has Kiss been replaced yet?

 

[big ginger 8]

Does it need reconstruction? Sure some stuff things need to change but I don't think there'll be anything major. Most people knew or should have known that missing a third of our team all of whom were key players against a pretty good Argentinian team always had the potential to turn ugly. I'd also argue that apart from the first 10/last 10 or so it wasn't as ugly as it has been made out to be.

I don't expect there to be a lot of change to the starting team. We'll already need to replace PO'C, PO'M and Bowe I believe along with Payne potentially depending on when he gets back. The 6N is always the priority for the IRFU so I don't think we're going to see the full on reboot many seem to want. Schmidt is mad for continuity and prefers to ease young players in which is bad news for the likes of McCloskey and Stander* who haven't been in a Joe Schmidt environment before. So unless there's more injuries I'd be surprised to see them starting at least. It's unfortunate there's no Wolfhounds game this year.

In terms of playing style I believe that Schmidt has been continually migrating to a more open style of play and I expect this transition to continue. Though it may stagnate if more new players do end up coming in.

We have an excellent shot at the Championship this year. Wales are typically slow starters and we have them at home this year. Both France and England have new coaches who they've never played a game under (apart from the Toulouse players obviously). Italy are Italy and while Scotland have clearly made improvements they're also at home and while they of course can beat us we should still expect a win.

- - - Updated - - -

Can't see any actual squad announcement? Just an Indo article saying Ringrose will be there. Van der Flier also in for the Sunday meet-up.

Has Kiss been replaced yet?

Can't find one either.

No replacement yet, wouldn't be overly surprised if Schmidt takes over for the time being as he did with Leinster.

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't see any actual squad announcement? Just an Indo article saying Ringrose will be there. Van der Flier also in for the Sunday meet-up.

Has Kiss been replaced yet?

There is no squad as no Ulster and Munster lads able to attend.

@BG8. Schmidt and Stander have attended a few sessions here in Munster and by the way they've been chatting to CJ I think he will be at 6 vs Wales.

In regards to his continuity thing. I believe that'll change as he knows he has to change it a bit. In the review of RWC I believe it was stated while things have been good we haven't done anything of great significance. In the 2 6N wins Schmidt said it was good but not great and in RWC acknowledged the effort vs France was detrimental to Arg game. But that we have to acknowledge France aren't same force.

Regards team. He knows Healy and Sextons form is an issue but that there are open slots in 2nd row, backrow and across the backs. So I believe there will be few changes

 

[big ginger 8]

There is no squad as no Ulster and Munster lads able to attend.

@BG8. Schmidt and Stander have attended a few sessions here in Munster and by the way they've been chatting to CJ I think he will be at 6 vs Wales.

That's nowhere near the same thing as being in an actual team training session and knowing exactly where he needs to be on every play. That sounds more to me like Schmidt is just getting a feel for him and where to put him in his long term plans rather than the immediate future. Also I'd hope Stander has attended a few sessions in Munster .

Given everything we've seen and heard from Schmidt and Easterby I don't think they'd ever have Stander and SO'B starting in the same backrow. Simply because of the lineout. It's one of our main attacking weapons and having really only three jumpers just hurts you too much at international level. Of course Stander could well end up there but with things as they are now I fully expect Ruddock to be starting in the 6 jersey come the 6N.

 

[Peat]

Has been talk that Bowe may be back in time. No idea if that's true. In any case, there's enough wingers about that it doesn't matter too much, with Trimble top of that list for me.

I'd love to push Henry at 7 with SOB moving to 6 but I feel the need for a carrier at 6 such as Stander or Ruddock outweighs that. Ireland won't be able to move to a more open, attacking style of play until they get more players who excel as ball carriers. Such as McCloskey - I see the issues in playing him at this point, but I'd say there's just as many issues with not playing him.

 

[munstermuffin]

That's nowhere near the same thing as being in an actual team training session and knowing exactly where he needs to be on every play. That sounds more to me like Schmidt is just getting a feel for him and where to put him in his long term plans rather than the immediate future. Also I'd hope Stander has attended a few sessions in Munster .

Given everything we've seen and heard from Schmidt and Easterby I don't think they'd ever have Stander and SO'B starting in the same backrow. Simply because of the lineout. It's one of our main attacking weapons and having really only three jumpers just hurts you too much at international level. Of course Stander could well end up there but with things as they are now I fully expect Ruddock to be starting in the 6 jersey come the 6N.

No but what are alternative options at 6. Also Ruddock is an option but as I said I think there's a big challenge of being better.
We are in trouble in2nd row now. And at half back we have Murray and Sexton in poor form. We have no top centre and I think in back3 we are hit and miss. I'm with Peat in that a gamble must be taken. I agree with the review. Ireland have won 2 6N but haven't progressed massively in world rugby. We've introduced players but still not 100% accurate.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sexton's club form isn't a huge issue for Schmidt I don't think, I get the sense he gets a bit petulant and under-performs in environments he doesn't like and being with Schmidt will make this problem negligible and we'll see improvements and Murray has always tended to play poorly with a bad 10 as well. The interesting part of the 6nations will be the centres and how well Heaslip captains, he has an awful record. We have an abundance of good but inexperienced centres and it'll be interesting to see who gets matched with Henshaw. Fitzgerald and Henshaw could be lethal in attack while Henshaw and McCloskey will be a bit more basic but bring more power in attack and defence, Olding, Ringrose and possibly Marshall will all be thrown in too in coming years but can't see them being used this year, or at least not until Autumn. Henshaw and McCloskey with Fitz on the bench is what I'd like, the option of Payne remains of course but seems pointless to me.

The backrow will depend a lot on who's available at the time, there will certainly be injured flankers...

 

[Peat]

I'd go so far as to say Marshall is in better form than McCloskey at the moment and that having a guy like him in the centres hugely opens up the options for Ulster. I'd go for McCloskey first for Ireland because he brings that freak factor, but I think Marshall has to be part of the conversation right now and it's up to Ringrose and Olding to force their way past him.

I'd really like to see McCloskey-Henshaw as they're both units with pace, footwork and a decent amount of rugby about them. They're both the very model of a modern major-general and I think could be phenomenal together. There's a lot of very good centres around though, there should be something good to be found there. Could always move Henshaw back to 15 to accommodate a stepper in the midfield.

 

[profitius]

Things need a bit of freshening up if you ask me. Both personnel and style of play could do with a spring cleaning. They won the 6 nations twice in a row but its rugby by numbers and by last years 6 nations the opposition had Ireland worked out. That's why there was a big drop off in tries scored from the previous season.

For all the talk about the newcomers, there's also the question of the oldies of the squad like Mike Ross, Rob Kearney etc. Rob Kearney is one of the most solid fullbacks in the world but I wouldn't mind seeing something different. Henshaw or Payne could slot in there easily and offer more attacking threat than Kearney. Mike Ross is another you'd put in the solid but unspectacular category and maybe one of those who could be dropped.


Second row is a problem area. Plenty of good players but no really good players there. Henderson being out is a big blow. I'd like to see Alan O'Connor get called up. He could be a surprise inclusion.


I think McCloskey is a must. Schmidt is very conservative but he'd be a fool to not include McCloskey. Henshaw best position is 13 or fullback.

 

[Peat]

That's why there was a big drop off in tries scored from the previous season.

Personally, I'd point to the loss of BOD as a key factor there; my hope is the Henshaw-Payne midfield has been a short-term expedient to deal with the sudden shift and as options build up, something more aggressive will be found. I really can't think how Ireland are playing is the definitive version of how Schmidt thinks the game is best played. A pack that can carry is a must too though, and I think the Irish pack has been too reliant on a small handful of injury prone players for that.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Of Joe Schmidt's preferred pack at the World Cup, Mike Ross, Paul O'Connell, Ian Henderson and Peter O'Mahoney will likely miss the 6 Nations. Given the pack was Ireland's area of strength in the World Cup, that's a serious blow. It also perhaps means that a switch to a more open game is now a necessity since Ireland won't have the depth to bully teams up front.

As such, the make up of the midfield is the most intriguing aspect of Joe Schmidt's selection. Luke Fitzgerald, Stuart McCloskey, Luke Marshall, Robbie Henshaw and Garry Ringrose are all putting their hands up for selection. All are likely to be around for the 2019 World Cup too with Stuart Olding also giving Ireland a tremendous set of options. I think Joe Schmidt will opt for a midfield of 12 Fitzgerald and 13 Henshaw with Luke Marshall on the bench for the start of the 6 Nations. McCloskey and Ringrose will likely have to bide their time and get used to the systems employed but both have huge careers for Ireland ahead of them.

Going on a tangent, Clive Woodward's concept of gold, silver and bronze medal players has some merit - by the time the World Cup comes around, everybody in the starting XV should be among the top three players in his position in the world. The three years before a World Cup are the time for experimentation with the final year all about consolidation.

Following Woodward's concept, it's easy to be bold about selections when you don't have to justify a poor performance after said selections fail! As such, I'd like to see Ireland be brave in their team selections in the 6 Nations with an eye on 2019 whereas I don't believe Joe Schmidt will be as radical in his overhaul. A failure of the 2015 World Cup was lack of depth (which David Nucifora is being tasked with addressing) and an internationally inexperienced centre competition. Robbie Henshaw and Jared Payne didn't have enough time to gel and Ireland had no real alternatives. Brian O'Driscoll was allowed hang on too long and it hurt Ireland in my opinion. Now is the time to put the ills of 2015 right. I'd go with the following as Ireland's optimum selection based on who is fit:

15. Simon Zebo (For his game breaking threat rather than his form. Rob Kearney provides nowhere near enough counter attacking threat and will be 33 in 2019)
14. Keith Earls
13. Luke Marshall
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Jonny Sexton
9. Conor Murray
1. Jack McGrath
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Marty Moore (Tadhg Furlong splits time almost equally, Nathan White and Mike Ross won't make it to 2019 and should be left out even though they're better right now)
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy (Ultan Dillane, Ross Molony and Donnacha Ryan should be in the squad. Ryan as a potential starter, the others for their future potential)
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Tommy O'Donnell (ball carriers needed in a pack shorn of Healy and Henderson)
8. Sean O'Brien (Ireland need to develop alternatives to the 32 year old Jamie Heaslip)

What I expect:
Kearney, Bowe, Henshaw, Fitzgerald, Trimble, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, Best, White, Toner, McCarthy, O'Brien, Henry, Heaslip

 

[Amiga500]

My ideal team:

1.McGrath
2.Best
3.Moore
4.Toner
5.O'Connor
6.Stander
7.O'Brien
8.Heaslip

9.Murray
10.Sexton
11.Fitzgerald
12.McCloskey
13.Marshall
14.Healy
15.Henshaw

16.Herring
17.McCall
18.Furlong
19.McCarthy
20.Van Der Flier
21.Cooney
22.Madigan
23.Ringrose



Notable casualties of Fr Time (T), lack of form (F) or injuries (I) include:
- Healy (F)
- Ross (T)
- Henry (T)
- Kearney (T)
- Payne (I)
- Henderson (I)
- Trimble (T)


Either we start to build for world cups, or we don't. None of this half-assed "can't afford to lose the next game so can't blood youth" bull****.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see Zebo ever having the mentality or consistency to be an international fullback unfortunately. 15 is probably the weakest position in the country with all our options there after Kearney not playing there consistently, I'd like to see Stuart Olding play there full time for Ulster once he returns from injury. Having an intelligent, attack minded 15 could prove to be crucial in being the best in the world rather than just Europe as has been the case under Schmidt. Taking a bit of pain now for success in four years is totally worth it but not something I think Schmidt will allow, handling the pressure of international rugby is the only weakness I see in Joe Schmidt and I don't think it's something he'll overcome in the aftermath of the car crash that was our World Cup.

 

[Peat]

Can't see Olding being given a run there given Ulster's signings, sadly. Shame Nelson got injured this season too; he was great for us and offered a decent playmaking option at times too.

Henshaw seems the most exciting young full-back in Irish rugby to me. Which is a bit of an issue when he's also been Ireland's best centre of recent times.

I also think it's very possible for Schmidt to experiment and build for the future while having a strong chance of winning now. At least, I hope so, because it's pretty clear that the IRFU will dictate wins today. But guys like McCloskey and Ringrose would hugely boost the Ireland team's attacking potential; they'll be in within a year... although to air an old grievance, Snoopy's possibly right about McCloskey getting sat out for a window while he learns the systems, something he could have been doing during the WC training, particularly as there people in the wider squad who never had a hope. If Schmidt wants to include young players slowly, then he should be looking to get them in the squads earlier.

 

[Amiga500]

Another reason for moving Robbie Henshaw to 15... we've got Bundee Aki coming down the road.

 

[squid]

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong place but I was wondering if someone could help me out. My misses and I will be in ireland on 7th feb when ireland play wales. Not sure how to go about tickets, ive had a look online. I cant seem to find anywhere that does an e-ticket, and not sure if postage would make it out here before I leave. How quickly do tickets sell out? Im assuming I cant just wing it and turn up. Any other options?
Cheers

 

[Amiga500]

Not sure how to go about tickets, ive had a look online. I cant seem to find anywhere that does an e-ticket, and not sure if postage would make it out here before I leave. How quickly do tickets sell out? Im assuming I cant just wing it and turn up. Any other options?
Cheers

http://www.irishrugby.ie/tickets

Tickets for the three games in Aviva Stadium against Wales, Italy and Scotland will be firstly distributed through the provincial branches who will distribute through the rugby clubs in Ireland. The Visiting Unions will also receive an allocation of tickets for their own game which they will distribute directly to their supporters. Should any tickets be returned they will be sold on line, please keep logged onto www.IrishRugby.ie for up to date information. Tickets will go on sale to Supporters Club members in December - to sign up click here.

Your gonna have a very difficult job getting a ticket if you don't have someone trying to get one from within the IRFU structure. But keep an eye out on the website.