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The refereeing of the 2010 Tri Nations

Jer1cho

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Seems a shame that all of the 'game threads' are being bombarded by off-topic discussions about refereeing other games not in question. Let's keep the cock swinging in here for now... This, is something i find interesting... Yes, it's far fetched, but it does raise an eyebrow or two...

http://www.sport24.co.za/Columnists/JJHarmse/IRBs-Paddy-not-playing-fair-20100805

IRB's Paddy not playing fair.

The Springboks are really lucky, we are told by one of their big sponsors, as they have 23 players taking the field on any given Saturday.

Player 23, who represents all those who support the team, is there on our behalf. That's great for the Boks to know, I am sure.

Unfortunately for the Boks, they can have as many Player 23's as they wish, if they don't have player 31, they are stuffed.

And they have been stuffed, have they not?

Four yellow cards, numerous debatable decisions and three suspensions are the result of player 31 in recent weeks.

Player 31 also had a massive impact on the match between the All Blacks and Wallabies in Brisbane, but it seemed that player 33 actually had to pay the price.

Poor Cobus Wessels.

Here he is, being sacked for making two mistakes, one of them involving an incident where Drew Mitchell tackled Richie McCaw. The way things have been going for McCaw, one could have expected a red for Mitchell, daring to tackle the All Blacks captain at all!

After all, was it not Jamie Heaslip who saw red earlier this season when he tried to knee McCaw in the head?

Anyway, it seems that the tackle was not worth the yellow recommended by Wessels, as judged afterwards by Paddy O'Brien, the big IRB boss of all players 31's.

In addition, Wessels actually called a skew lineout throw against the All Blacks, when it was straight! How dare he, no wonder Paddy was upset.

But then something even worse happened. Mitchell prevented the All Blacks from taking a quick throw-in after referee Craig Joubert had warned both captains that he will not stand for any deliberate attempts to slow down quick-tap penalties and quick throw-ins. He even marched both teams 10 yards when they did that.

So what does Mitchell do? He prevented a quick throw-in two minutes into the second half, giving Joubert no option but to send him packing.

Now Wessels becomes the villain? How do you explain that, Paddy?

Mitchell knew very well that slowing the ball down was off-limits. His team was spoken to about it. He still did it and got burned. So suddenly Wessels is wrong and is dumped?

It is pretty much like dropping your goal kicker who missed in the opening minute of the match and the last kick of the game, because if he kicked the first one, your team would have been ahead by the time he missed the last one!

Also, were all match officials not advised by their SANZAR bosses to 'over-react' rather than 'under-react' when they had their big refereeing conference? Yes, they were.

And please explain to us, Paddy, how is it possible that a touch judge who missed Jimmy Cowan pulling back Bakkies Botha AND Botha head butting Cowan seconds later, goes unpunished, but poor Wessels get nailed? Surely not because he is from South Africa?

Maybe because the complainants are from Australia then? Remember, you acted on their instruction earlier this year as well when you removed Steve Walsh from a Super 14 game after complaints by a certain Australian Super 14 team.

Sorry if it seems that I am clutching at straws here, but a lot of things happening at the moment in your department seem a bit confusing.

Why is it again that when New Zealand and Australia play, they get the top three referees in the Southern Hemisphere, who also handled 90% of the Super 14 games these players have played this year, but when South Africa play any of those two countries, we get referees from the Northern Hemisphere?

Your referees are impartial and should be able to handle any match, are they not? If not, you may have a massive problem at next year's Rugby World Cup.

If South Africa make the final, playing say New Zealand, will this mean that the best two teams in the world will play the final but will only be reffed by number four or five from your ranks? That's not fair, is it?

Anyway, I suppose one needs to congratulate you because there was actually some reaction on what you call a poor performance by one of your boys. I also believe that the yellow cards flashed so far in the competition, but for the two tip tackles, were wrong.

What also was wrong is the way no yellow cards were issued to McCaw in Wellington and Australia's David Pocock in Brisbane.

The All Blacks, as wonderful as they have played this year (although most of the time against 14 men) have conceded 34 penalties so far in Tri-Nations.

Twelve in Auckland, nine in Wellington and 13 in Melbourne. But no cards. The Springboks have conceded 24 (5 + 9 + 10) and got four cards...

Two of those, Bakkies Botha in Auckland and BJ Botha in Brisbane, were for slowing the ball down or so called professional fouls. Yet, the most penalised team get warning upon warning.

Mmm, maybe Peter de Villiers is right after all...

Make of that what you will...
 
Time to move on mate. We lost the first three because we were second best. I am sure these problems will be highlighted through official channels (unlike the buffons we have in charge) and dealt with shortly.
 
Some valid points their and some stuff I really never thought about, interesting.

Paddy O'Brien however wasnt reffing any of the games, he didnt make the mistakes.
 
Time to move on mate. We lost the first three because we were second best. I am sure these problems will be highlighted through official channels (unlike the buffons we have in charge) and dealt with shortly.

Totally agree. It is still a valid talking point though. I never said the ref's were in any way responsible for our losses. It's completely on us. However, that doesn't mean that the refereeing has not had a tremendous impact on the tournament so far. What i find the saddest, is that New Zealand are playing some exceptional rugby, but it's getting overshadowed by allegations of 'conspiracies' or what not, as a direct result of some very dodgy calls. I hope that the last half of the tournament won't have any issues, and that teams can hold their discipline.
 
Totally agree. It is still a valid talking point though. I never said the ref's were in any way responsible for our losses. It's completely on us. However, that doesn't mean that the refereeing has not had a tremendous impact on the tournament so far. What i find the saddest, is that New Zealand are playing some exceptional rugby, but it's getting overshadowed by allegations of 'conspiracies' or what not, as a direct result of some very dodgy calls. I hope that the last half of the tournament won't have any issues, and that teams can hold their discipline.

Ya should have left it at that haha, I don't think that the refereeing has had an tremendous impact on any of the games other than the red carding of Drew Mitchell. All in all the better teams have won, and comfortably as well, fair enough if the scores were close then refereeing could help dictate the result but no game has been close enough for this to happen.
 
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funny that its a NZ band that Australia has claimed thats playing at the start

edit: just to clarify that band sucks, only an Australian would listen to that crap
 
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I disagree , reffing has a huge impact on the games , if you cannot get fast ball away you done for ,. especially when one considers how slow Ricky is to start off , now add top that the spoiling that the ABS get away with every game its virtually impossible for us to get decent ball to our back line. Yes the boks are off form , yes we picked out of sorts players but the bad results are due to that and the bad reffing.

My question is what will the ABS do when the reffing goes against them ? What if that happens (like before) in a WC semi ? Another interesting article that came out this week. One thing is for sure , many underestimate PDV and call him a clown , however he is by far more sly than anyone of us realise , he called it correct and put the spotlight on it , also the pressure of reffs to now look for it , then lastly he took a lot of focus off his out of sorts captain every week

By Peter Bills

It's official! New Zealand are treated differently by referees to either of their Tri-Nations opponents.

The statistics from the first five games of this year's competition show a staggering difference in the ratio of penalties per yellow card. Suspicions are rife at the highest levels of South African rugby that the All Blacks get a special deal, and are favoured whether sub-consciously or consciously by referees.

Now, the official figures seem to prove the point. South Africa are the most regularly penalised, conceding six penalties per yellow card. The Australians' figure is remarkably similar - just seven per card.

But by the same calculations, the New Zealand tally is incredible. Official figures show they incur 43 penalties per yellow card, more than seven times the figure of the Springboks. This appears to reveal at best an extraordinary imbalance in the way the three countries are refereed and at worst, a complete lack of consistency by the match officials in the way they deal with the individual southern hemisphere nations. Some might suggest, on the evidence of these figures, that referees' tolerance of New Zealand indiscretions appear to know no bounds.
Continues Below ↓





It also seems to bear out the view of certain Bok officials that there is one law for the All Blacks, quite another for their southern hemisphere rivals.

As Australia's former World Cup-winning coach Bob Dwyer said: "It is difficult to argue with the facts."

Just days ahead of the crucial Springbok versus All Blacks Tri-Nations Test at FNB Stadium in Soweto, Dwyer wrote a revealing analysis on the New Zealanders' play so far in this Tri-Nations competition.

He calls their form "scintillating" yet his analysis offers an insight of much value to Peter de Villiers' men as they prepare to try and halt the All Blacks juggernaut on Saturday: "Just as the All Blacks value the necessity of quick ball for their own attack, they clearly recognise the threat that opposition quick ball poses to their defence. In fact, I thought the NZ defence was unusually vulnerable to attack from quick ball, as evidenced by two quite simple Springbok tries in their second Test in Wellington. They strive therefore to limit such recycles from their opponents.

"There is nothing wrong with that so long as they do so within the laws of the game. It is here that I, and many others, question their tactics. Black-jerseyed tacklers finish on the ground, on the wrong side of the ball so often that I can't believe that it's by accident. This prevents their opponents from arriving quickly to support their teammate, and allows other All Black support to attack opposition ball on the ground. Further, opposition scrumhalves are having difficulty getting in close to clear the ball and are forced to 'lift' the ball for their pass to clear All Black bodies. This slows down the clearing pass and gives valuable time to the defence. And it's illegal."

The Australian also highlighted what he called New Zealand's "outrageously offside" positions when they enter the breakdown on their own ball.

"Sometimes they are clearing out opponents from positions a metre or two BEYOND the ruck/maul," he says. "This has the beneficial effect of limiting opposition hands to the tackle ball and allowing their 'early, long place' ball for instant recycle to their excellent support players. If any one doubts this, they should Google 'All Blacks at the Breakdown' and view an excellently compiled video from the Wellington Test against the Boks. It is even on the increase.

"All players play their part, and while McCaw, Franks and Smith have been serial offenders, Kieran Read has perfected his technique also. It is dramatically effective, it frequently brings tries - and it's illegal."

Another former World Cup winner, 1999 Wallabies hooker Michael Foley said: "Referees will lean in favour of the dominant team so that the border line decisions tend to fall their way. Conversely, those tight decisions often go against the team that is not playing well. But I don't believe it is a conspiracy.
 
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No, that bad results are because your team played played poorly...

In every aspect were they bettered by the All Blacks. Poor reffing was not a factor. Ill discipline was.
 
One thing is for sure , many underestimate PDV and call him a clown , however he is by far more sly than anyone of us realise , he called it correct and put the spotlight on it , also the pressure of reffs to now look for it , then lastly he took a lot of focus off his out of sorts captain every week.

So he pointed out a few rules to the 'referee' of all people but my question is (subject in bold on your quote) is it really good to take the focus (his included) away from an 'out of sorts' captain?..he gets himself into trouble with his remarks that you'd normally hear from a sore loser and he honestly makes himself look like one just to take the spotlight away from his captain???....it doesnt sound good to me. He should say what Henry and Deans say after the game stuff like 'oh they were too good....weve got a lot to work on', you know constructive realistic stuff.

I think PDV was a fantastic coach last year despite his unclassy remarks he made about the ABs something like 'ABs must've missed the new rules boat' or something like that but now it seems hes got a different look on his face.
 
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^
No, that bad results are because your team played played poorly...

In every aspect were they bettered by the All Blacks. Poor reffing was not a factor. Ill discipline was.

I agree we played poor but the reffing did not help , as for ill dicipline only Bakkies incident warrents a mention the yellow for Danie Rousoouw was a soft one and if you want to be pedantic about it then Mccaw should probably have gotten one as well for his kindergarden hit on Danie's leg , the rest was either due to bad tackling which all 3 teams were guilty off and professional fouls , if you take the bad tackles into account then we had 2 cases which were JEan Div and Jaque Fourie , both guilty and not serial offenders , the ABS had Rene Ranger for shoulder charge which he got away with and the last game your prop for a really pathetic shoulder charge again which he also got away with, and lets not forget the yellow your prop got against the Wallabies , so its only the Bakkies incident which stands out.

As for professional fouls , please guy , the Abs are the greatest transgressors , we all know that , the stats tell us that and in some absurd cases your cappie was officially warned 4 times !!! So jaa dicipline was the same , punishment was not.
 
the ABS had Rene Ranger for shoulder charge which he got away with and the last game your prop for a really pathetic shoulder charge again which he also got away with.

To me it looked like Ranger had his arm out and swung it at his chest, Im not 100% sure though if Rangers arm got some contact on the chest as well but it looked like a good old fashioned hit to me. Oh well Ive discussed this before cant believe Im doing it again lol..
 
I agree we played poor but the reffing did not help , as for ill dicipline only Bakkies incident warrents a mention the yellow for Danie Rousoouw was a soft one and if you want to be pedantic about it then Mccaw should probably have gotten one as well for his kindergarden hit on Danie's leg , the rest was either due to bad tackling which all 3 teams were guilty off and professional fouls , if you take the bad tackles into account then we had 2 cases which were JEan Div and Jaque Fourie , both guilty and not serial offenders , the ABS had Rene Ranger for shoulder charge which he got away with and the last game your prop for a really pathetic shoulder charge again which he also got away with, and lets not forget the yellow your prop got against the Wallabies , so its only the Bakkies incident which stands out.

As for professional fouls , please guy , the Abs are the greatest transgressors , we all know that , the stats tell us that and in some absurd cases your cappie was officially warned 4 times !!! So jaa dicipline was the same , punishment was not.
For a start Rene Ranger's tackle was not illegle in any way. He tried to get both arms around and didn't lead with the sholder, yet he still got penalised which lead to a try, so SA benefited from a mistake that was never made. So that goes out the window. Woodcock should have been yellowed, but that is the only isolated incedent which is a tough call (and has nothing to do with the Springboks, though Kirshner should have been yellowed for a high tackle in Wellington, so let's call it even). McCaw was never personally penalised four times during any match, he was penalised three times in Wellington, but also received a team warning for the same offence. NZ have done no spear tackles during this Tri Nations, so they have never been cited for one.

If you have a problem with refereeing standard in the last two matches, blame the South African's that were reffing.
 
For a start Rene Ranger's tackle was not illegle in any way. He tried to get both arms around and didn't lead with the sholder, yet he still got penalised which lead to a try, so SA benefited from a mistake that was never made. So that goes out the window. Woodcock should have been yellowed, but that is the only isolated incedent which is a tough call (and has nothing to do with the Springboks, though Kirshner should have been yellowed for a high tackle in Wellington, so let's call it even). McCaw was never personally penalised four times during any match, he was penalised three times in Wellington, but also received a team warning for the same offence. NZ have done no spear tackles during this Tri Nations, so they have never been cited for one.

If you have a problem with refereeing standard in the last two matches, blame the South African's that were reffing.

Agree the SA refs are just as bad , this is not about SA ref or Aussie Refs. What goes around comes around and NZ will be at the wrong end of poor decisions , I just hope its not WC semi's again and please dont cry again for 4 years when it happens.
 
Oh and whatever Rangers intentions was he did NOT use his arms. Jean intended putting down Ranger as well but he did not so he was banned for 2 weeks. Intentions mean nothing , for years Butch reckoned he intended to use his arms lol
 
Agree the SA refs are just as bad , this is not about SA ref or Aussie Refs. What goes around comes around and NZ will be at the wrong end of poor decisions , I just hope its not WC semi's again and please dont cry again for 4 years when it happens.
Hohoho, the jokes on you mate because the All Blacks didn't even make it to the semi finals!...

:(


That was a hollow victory.
 
As for Kirchner tackle , I agree he was lucky albeit that Jane did duck into that one , he however is known for his high tackles.You right about Mccaw he was never actually penalized 4 times but he should have been at least 6 times, when he warned officially he transgressed twice after that , the first time he received another official warning and the second time the ref just blew the penalty without saying anything. That was actually funny.

Its gonna happend soon that they blow him off the park.
 
Hohoho, the jokes on you mate because the All Blacks didn't even make it to the semi finals!...

:(


That was a hollow victory.

Firslty , we will take that hollow victory thanks , not our fault the ABS were too weak to get further , secondly you say the ABS did not make it to the semi's yet the Jokes on me ? Are you for serious ? lol
 
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Firslty , we will take that hollow victory thanks , secondly you say the ABS did not make it to the semi's yet the Jokes on me ? Are you for serious ? lol
:wall:
Obviously not...

You see the joke was self depreciati...

I give up.
:Forum58:
 

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