Tom Donnelly selection proves Racist NZ Maori team hurting ABs.

[TRF C A Iversen]

I'd like to see the RFU try, considering how much we've been invaded in the past.

It's funny, many people would find that racist for some reason, but I reckon the New Zealand Maori guys wouldn't. They'd be wanting to give them a game, lol.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I can see where wjd23104 is coming from. From the outside it certainly seems a bit strange to have a team that is picks its players on a racial basis. Imagine a "Whites only" team in france or something along those lines. There'd be uproar.

From what I know of the Maori, the rugby are a remenant of a time that has long passed, when there were far more divisions in NZ society. The debate is whether it is worth holding onto the tradition or dismanteling it in the name of political correctness. I think they're a great team, but unless the Junior All Blacks are operating as a national 'A' side it would seem illogical for your second team to not be able to field everyone it can.

So in summation, keep the Maori, but only if the j-Ab's can be brought back.

 

[wjd23104]

Finally! a reasoned and intelligent argument. And most of it i agree with. However i suggest that my use of current players is an accurate example of players not considered for NZ Maori who could and conceivably would be selected for NZ-a/ Junior ABs if the NZ Maori Rugby Program had not forced the suspension of the NZ-A/Junior AB's program. It could ultimately cost a player a chance at playing for the Allblacks. Alby Mathewson was specifically mentioned as being unlucky to miss out on the ABs by Assistant Coach Wayne Smith, However without a NZ-a Alby has to Wait till the Air New Zealand Cup to prove himself and put pressure on the incumbents. While Chris Smylie (not even on the Allblack map as far as i know) has had an excellent chance to pressure JC and Weepu. Why? because he has a Maori Relative/Maori Blood and Mathewson Doesn't? He certaintely wasn't picked on form ahead of Mathewson. In this i believe Mathewson is an example of a player who has clearly been discriminated against. Of course there's no one quotable case of someone being refused they just aren't considered. Here is the Eligibility rule as stated on NZRU.co.nz

All contracted players are able to nominate themselves as eligible for New Zealand Maori and, in the event a player is considered for selection, the team's kaumatua, or cultural advisor, will trace the player's whakapapa, or genealogy, to confirm his heritage and eligibility.

In other words they check if you have the right blood/relatives and could if they felt you weren't essentially maori enough exclude you.

 

[Jake Heke]

Also, Jake Heke, something having a lot of history doesn't always make it good. NZ Maori is not the following things (or anything like them), but many things have had long histories and began horrible traditions. Such as slavery, apartheid and segregation. Many folks could not understand what the big deal was over those horrible things. I say again, New Zealand Maori rugby is none of those things. I'm merely proving that long standing tradition is not the basis for how the world works forever. Motor racing the world over isn't doing much for the planet, but is a big tradition now.
.

I know and agree with you there, but i was interpreting it on how much it has influenced Rugby in our lands. And it was more of a direct reply to his comments on shelving the team, which i thought was pretty bloody stupid.
The most odd thing here is, racial-racism pretty much doesn't exist here anymore, and i **** you not, i bet you hes the only one who holds this opinion.

edit- Also theres a big difference between history that is frowned upon, and history that is glorified.

 

[wjd23104]

How much are you betting? because i'm not the only one who believes this. Plus signs are the NZRU are going shelve (not forever) the NZ Maori next year for money reasons anyway (JAB's make more money apparently).

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

I know and agree with you there, but i was interpreting it on how much it has influenced Rugby in our lands. And it was more of a direct reply to his comments on shelving the team, which i thought was pretty bloody stupid.
The most odd thing here is, racial-racism pretty much doesn't exist here anymore, and i **** you not, i bet you hes the only one who holds this opinion.

edit- Also theres a big difference between history that is frowned upon, and history that is glorified.

Now that is pretty much exactly what I reckon. It's become a wonderful part of "New Zealand's" rugby culture, not just Maori culture.

It'd only be something worth worrying about if some really nasty case came up along the line. Like, if a player had a small Caucasian fan asking for an autograph and then said "I wasn't playing for you!". That's just not how the team operates and I bet every single NZ Maori player would be furious with their team mate if it ever happened.

Not that I could ever see that happening.

 

[Jake Heke]

How much are you betting? because i'm not the only one who believes this.

Heres a quick G.W.Bush joke to tell you how much i'll bet.

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"

Thats right, a brazillion dorrohs, that you can't find someone else from N.Z that thinks the team should be shelved for being racist. Go for it brah

 

[wjd23104]

I know and agree with you there, but i was interpreting it on how much it has influenced Rugby in our lands. And it was more of a direct reply to his comments on shelving the team, which i thought was pretty bloody stupid.
The most odd thing here is, racial-racism pretty much doesn't exist here anymore, and i **** you not, i bet you hes the only one who holds this opinion.

edit- Also theres a big difference between history that is frowned upon, and history that is glorified.

Racism pretty much doesn't exist here? Have you heard of Hone Harawera? The National Front? The Maori Party?
I beg to differ, hell just look at the comments made in Laidlaw's book and subsequent comments by a certain rugby world cup ambassador and you will see there's racism just beneath the surface.

 

[dangandan]

there are no restrictions prohibiting the Maori from playing for the national side. saying the NZ Maori team is racist is making it sound like that's the only way they can represent NZ, which isn't true. if any of the Maori players are good enough for the All Blacks then they will be picked. the NZ Maori team is more a tradition where New Zealand gets to express their native culture through rugby. the Maori players are also playing for the team voluntarily, not because they have no other choice or no other team to play for. again, the NZ Maori team is simply a way that New Zealand have chosen to express their native culture NOT because they hate the Maori and want them segregated.

 

[wjd23104]

Racism pretty much doesn't exist here? Have you heard of Hone Harawera? The National Front? The Maori Party?
I beg to differ, hell just look at the comments made in Laidlaw's book and subsequent comments by a certain rugby world cup ambassador and you will see there's racism just beneath the surface.

Thats right, a brazillion dorrohs, that you can't find someone else from N.Z that thinks the team should be shelved for being racist. Go for it brah

So in summation, keep the Maori, but only if the j-Ab's can be brought back (this is a quote from Feicarsinn)

If you read the rest of his post he clearly agrees with me. Steve Tew has basically said here won't be both teams (NZM and Jabs) thus it discriminates against players who are Pakeha and would have made the JABs.

 

[Jake Heke]

Racism pretty much doesn't exist here? Have you heard of Hone Harawera? The National Front? The Maori Party?
I beg to differ, hell just look at the comments made in Laidlaw's book and subsequent comments by a certain rugby world cup ambassador and you will see there's racism just beneath the surface.

Have i? I'm Maori too mate, but I don't listen to all the political hoohaa, I'm talking about the people itself, theres NO tension at all. Anyways don't bring politics in to this and run this train wreck you started further off the tracks.

 

[Jake Heke]

Thats right, a brazillion dorrohs, that you can't find someone else from N.Z that thinks the team should be shelved for being racist. Go for it brah

So in summation, keep the Maori, but only if the j-Ab's can be brought back (this is a quote from Feicarsinn)

If you read the rest of his post he clearly agrees with me. Steve Tew has basically said here won't be both teams (NZM and Jabs) thus it discriminates against players who are Pakeha and would have made the JABs.

Selective-reading much?

 

[dangandan]

also if your saying it's racist toward Pakeha, i disagree. the Junior All Blacks are a developmental side. the national coaches look mainly at the Super 14 for form players. if Pakeha or Maori players do not perform at that level then they won't be picked for the All Blacks, simple as that... however, if they want the developmental side back then there is no harm in shelving the NZ Maori. rugby is now professional and if the coaches want to focus more on performance then that is fine. they have not suggested they wanted to yet so what's the problem with a bit of culture for now?

 

[wjd23104]

there are no restrictions prohibiting the Maori from playing for the national side. saying the NZ Maori team is racist is making it sound like that's the only way they can represent NZ, which isn't true. if any of the Maori players are good enough for the All Blacks then they will be picked. the NZ Maori team is more a tradition where New Zealand gets to express their native culture through rugby. the Maori players are also playing for the team voluntarily, not because they have no other choice or no other team to play for. again, the NZ Maori team is simply a way that New Zealand have chosen to express their native culture NOT because they hate the Maori and want them segregated.

Somehow you've got my point confused. The NZ Maori as it stands is effectively NZ-A because to afford the Maori Program they scraped the NZ-A team. Therefore it( the NZ Maori team) Discriminates against NON-Maori who otherwise could have represented NZ-A and pushed for ABs selection. You do realize Racism is not a one way street.

 

[Jake Heke]

there are no restrictions prohibiting the Maori from playing for the national side. saying the NZ Maori team is racist is making it sound like that's the only way they can represent NZ, which isn't true. if any of the Maori players are good enough for the All Blacks then they will be picked. the NZ Maori team is more a tradition where New Zealand gets to express their native culture through rugby. the Maori players are also playing for the team voluntarily, not because they have no other choice or no other team to play for. again, the NZ Maori team is simply a way that New Zealand have chosen to express their native culture NOT because they hate the Maori and want them segregated.

Exactly, TS is proposing we simply cancel out a tradition thats been going on since the 1880's because he feels 2 players are missing out on valuable play time to keep fit. Blasphemer!

 

[wjd23104]

Selective-reading much?

Damn i didn't read that properly sorry.

 

[MunsterMan]

So in summation, keep the Maori, but only if the j-Ab's can be brought back

This. It would be tragic to lose the NZ Maori rugby team for ever, but the Junior All Blacks should take precedence normally if the funds aren't there for both. Obviously on occasions like the Maori centenary this year it is great to have the Maori playing Ireland and England.


Would love to see the J-AB's in the Pacific Nations Cup and the Maori playing touring sides or vice versa next year

 

[dangandan]

Somehow you've got my point confused. The NZ Maori as it stands is effectively NZ-A because to afford the Maori Program they scraped the NZ-A team. Therefore it( the NZ Maori team) Discriminates against NON-Maori who otherwise could have represented NZ-A and pushed for ABs selection. You do realize Racism is not a one way street.

yeap and i've also earlier pointed out after that post why the NZ Maori are not racist towards the pakeha. i think this is a pointless and silly thread too so i'm done. i've given my 2 cents.

 

[Jake Heke]

Somehow you've got my point confused. The NZ Maori as it stands is effectively NZ-A because to afford the Maori Program they scraped the NZ-A team. Therefore it( the NZ Maori team) Discriminates against NON-Maori who otherwise could have represented NZ-A and pushed for ABs selection. You do realize Racism is not a one way street.

Do you have proof that they scraped NZ-A in order to compensate enough money for the Maoris? I doubt you do.

Also TS, think of it like this, the NZ Maori has been around decades before the NZ-A team, through all these years it has gained huge amount of respect and credibility from opposing nations. Hence why it is considered a test match when for example England or Australia play them. Now from what i know, you want them to remove the Maori from the name and to allow non-Maoris a chance to play, Amirite? But, could you imagine the consequences of such actions? Erasing over 110+years of glorified history from our forefathers? If you can't even imagine this, then you.. my friend, need to put the bottle down brah.

 

[dangandan]

one more thing... it's the players fault if they don't make the national xv and get no game time. if they weren't good enough throughout the super 14 then it's their fault. not the Maoris. besides, haven't there been issues with players in the professional era playing TOO MANY games?? hahah