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Toulon... wtf

iINDOMINUSxx

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RIGHT! im almost had enough with toulon buying more and more players like they had james o'connor and leigh halfpenny joining the club so three fullbacks for next year and now they're going to put a bid on Israel Folau ? before the world cup ? FFS! Toulon you already have 3 quality fullbacks aka Halfpenny, O'connor (well he can play fullback and think he's a good fullback, and Armitage who i think is a good fullback, so tell me is there any need for Folau ?. ok so my first point Wilkinson is gone you need someone to fill his boots but your first target is a fullback ? but even though thinking about it i think its most likely that James O'Connor will play fly-half unless they buy someone and leigh halfpenny is at fullback kicking. 2nd im also worried about what toulon will do to him look at habana when he played for the stormers/bulls he would never dived or act like a footballer one and would have been a player to look up to and he went to were the money is and look he is diving might be one incident but he could do alot more in his toulon career. 3rd soon it will become to a stage were it will be toulon winning everything like no-one will be able to win the Top 14 because toulon will keep winning it similar to Celtic in the scottish premier league in football when rangers are gone. 4th i'm not sure if they're realising but they are ruining the look off french rugby as i think next year only 2 french player will start this is the team i see next year

1.) Carl Hayman
2.) Guilhem Guirado
3.) Martin Castrogiovanni
4.) Bakkies Botha
5.) Ali Williams
6.) Mamuka Gorgodze
7.) Steffon Armitage
8.) Chris Masoe
9.) Michael Claassens
10.) James O'Connor
11.) Bryan Habana
12.) Matt Giteau
13.) Maxime Mermoz
14.) Drew Mitchell
15.) Leigh Halfpenny

ok so yeah only 2 french players in the starting XV in a french is ridiculous, how are they improving french rugby and yes toulon are the worst for this but i know there are other french teams who aren't doing any better eg. Racing Metro and Stade Francais is getting there and maybe Casters. the only team i see which have a good number off french players is Toulouse so well done to them and i may aswell to the subs for it to check it out.

16.) Craig Burden
17.) Levan Chilachava
18.) Andrew Sheridan
19.) Ian Evans
20.) Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
21.) Nicolas Durand
22.) Frédéric Michalak
23.) Delon Armitage

so from the subs and a starting XV only four YES FOUR! players from france playing for a french team from the subs and starting XV. its not like france lack talent. there are so many players from france who are very talented who im sure would do well for toulon. Sofiane Guitoune i feel would be good at toulon and they dont need Drew Mitchell or Rudi Wulf or Habana when you can have him and im not going to list anymore are im sure we all know there is alot off talent in france which could have a big roll for toulon. last point if im correct i believe in Australia and New Zealand to play for the national rugby team you have to play in a team from the national cup (Super 15) which is why O'Connor or Mitchell aren't playing for Australia. If Folau go to Toulon they are going to waste him. He could become a big name not just in modern rugby but a big name in Australia's rugby history like maybe Australia's alltime starting XV possibly maybe more. I'll really kick off if Toulon buys Dan Carter.

thats my message im sorry if i offended any toulon fans. i know i showed alot off aggression in this but i saw this and i could not help my self from not sharing this. but i have to tell the truth and to toulon fans in france a question ? would you prefer to see your country's rugby to be ruined to make your team better or would you love to see france have another chance for a world cup ? but see your team only slack a little bit but still can get into top 14 ***le possibly.

i thank you for anyone who read the whole thread i would really like to see what you think off toulon's money and if they should make a thing to make it your only allowed a certain number off players to play. But surely i would rather help the national team and make my team only a little bit worst then make my team good and make the national team suffer for it.

Read More on Folau's offer here: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...four-world-stars/story-e6frf55l-1226948649068

Yet again thank you for reading please share on what you think as i posted that to show what i think.

Have a good day everyone :)
 
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Scotty I personally gurantee you, that XV you've listed will never ever take the field.
 
so who will but that isn't my point even is this XV or subs are completely wrong there are still only going to be like 2 - 6 french players in the line-up
 
Racing Metro and Stade Francis is getting there and maybe Casters. the only team i see which have a good number off french players is Toulouse so well done to them and i may aswell to the subs for it to check it out.

Tony, gaston, what d'you think ? I quite like it. Very simple, barely different from the actual word...but nice and catchy. How could we have been so....blind, all this time...

Scotty there is a lot of truth in what you have worded with your keyboard. I understand the frustration that you are voicing, although I cannot actually hear the voice...(the sad world of mass communicashun..).
But you see You'reScotty, when you say "not enough Frenchmen in teams; not like France is lacking talent..", Boudjellal tells you he doesn't give the smallest dragonfly caca about that because as good as some French guys are, there's just better. Look at the 'best players per position' thread I made. There are French names. Many in fact. But how many of those are Top 1 or 2 or 3 ? France would need to have ridiculous, ridiculous talent to overtake the mass influx of dirty foreigners soiling our beloved land. Yes there is Wenceslas Lauret...but then again there's Gorgodzilla. Yes France has really good wingers...but better than Habana ?

In short: there's 'good' in France...but even better outside France. Let's bring those 'even betters' to France.
And you know what, with all tehh moneys the Top 14 has generated and the sort of team Toulon has built, another president would be insane not to put in the money himself. If Toulon buys really good foreigners, then the rest of the league ought to get off their asses and do the same if they want to stay in the race, stay competitive. Do you understand the words than I've worded on my computer ?

The Top 14 will mean the end of French Rugby if it doesn't put an end to this. Because we've got players now, some good ones, some really good ones...but in the next generations, how many more (stinking) foreigners will be in circuit ? How many teams will look for local talent they have to develop and wait for (when they can just buy accomplished guys from abroad) ? Especially given those French players are selectable, and if they turn good they'll be picked by the FFR. And what coach is alright with that, a burnt out guy they see half the time when they've got a season on their hands with enough trouble as is ?

Notes:
Hayman plays on the right Scotty. Chiocci to start regularly next year. Look to see Menini get more playing time at LH. Sheridan I think will retire. Tilous-Borde at 9. Bastareaud will obviously play, either starter or bench at least. Giteau at 10, O'Connor on the bench. And don't forget they've got Gerhard Vosloo from ASM Clermont now !...
 
i suppose Big Ewis i shouldn't really had made a Starting XV as i dont really know the Toulon team but by having a look at the players i just picked what look liked they're best possible team
 
Tbh, if you're buying so much foreign import it just means you don't give a flying f*** about domestic quality. you just wanna win as much as possible. Get crowds, get funding via medium, selling fan gear etc...

The only solution is to install a criteria of X amount of French player sin the squad + salary cap.
 
well there's a quota, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time...there's also a salary cap, but it's obviously being exceeded by, say, Boudjellal. He says himself he's under, but God knows what fallacious, convoluted logic he's employing there. Just like the French player quota. Sure there's a quota, 55% I believe. And teams conform to it. But they just keep their players on the bench, nice and comfortable, and play a huge no. of foreigners.
There are always ways around laws from these fkrs.
 
Finally Ian Evans will not join Toulon
Sheridan will surely end his career and Claasens will surely left (JIFF-quota)


Toulon squad for the next season :

Loosehead props : Fabien Barcella (20 caps) - Xavier Chiocci - Alexandre Menini - Florian Fresia
Hookers : Guillem Guirado (21 caps) - Craig Burden (Sth Africa) - Jean-Charles Orioli
Tighthead props : Carl Hayman (NZ, 45 caps) - Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy, 105 caps) - Levan Chilachava (Georgia, 15 caps) - Karim Kouider
Locks : Bakkies Botha (SA, 78 caps) - Ali Williams (NZ, 77 caps) - Joce Suta (5 caps) - Romain Taofifenua (3 caps) - Kote Mikautadze (Geo, 20 caps)
Flankers : JM Fernandez-Lobbe (Arg, 56 caps) - Mamuka Gorgodze (Geo, 57 caps) - Juan Smith (SA, 69 caps) - Virgile Bruni - Gerhard Vosloo (SA)
Eightmen : Steffon Armitage (England, 5 caps) - Chris Masoe (NZ, 20 caps)
Scrumhalves : Sébastien Tillous-Borde (8 caps) - Nicolas Durand (2 caps) - Eric Escande
Flyhalves : Frederic Michalak (69 caps) - James O'Connor (Australia, 44 caps)
Centres : Matt Giteau (Aus, 92 caps) - Mathieu Bastareaud (23 caps) - Maxime Mermoz (27 caps) - Rudi Wulf (NZ, 4 caps) - Théo Bélan
Wingers : Bryan Habana (SA, 95 caps) - Drew Mitchell (Aus, 63 caps) - David Smith (NZ) - Josua Tuisova (Fiji) - Ivan Roux
Fullbacks : Leigh Halfpenny (Wales, 55 caps) - Delon Armitage (England, 26 caps)
 
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Finally Ian Evans will not join Toulon
Sheridan will surely end his career and Claasens will surely left (JIFF-quota)


Toulon squad for the next season :

Loosehead props : Fabien Barcella (20 caps) - Xavier Chiocci - Alexandre Menini - Florian Fresia
Hookers : Guillem Guirado (21 caps) - Craig Burden (Sth Africa) - Jean-Charles Orioli
Tighthead props : Carl Hayman (NZ, 45 caps) - Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy, 105 caps) - Levan Chilachava (Georgia, 15 caps)
Locks : Bakkies Botha (SA, 78 caps) - Ali Williams (NZ, 77 caps) - Joce Suta (5 caps) - Romain Taofifenua (3 caps) - Kote Mikautadze (20 caps)
Flankers : JM Fernandez-Lobbe (Arg, 56 caps) - Mamuka Gorgodze (Geo, 57 caps) - Juan Smith (SA, 69 caps) - Virgile Bruni - Gerhard Vosloo (SA)
Eightmen : Steffon Armitage (England, 5 caps) - Chris Masoe (NZ, 20 caps)
Scrumhalves : Sébastien Tillous-Borde (8 caps) - Nicolas Durand (2 caps) - Eric Escande
Flyhalves : Frederic Michalak (69 caps) - James O'Connor (Australia, 44 caps)
Centres : Matt Giteau (Aus, 92 caps) - Mathieu Bastareaud (23 caps) - Maxime Mermoz (27 caps) - Rudi Wulf (NZ, 4 caps) - Théo Bélan
Wingers : Bryan Habana (SA, 95 caps) - Drew Mitchell (Aus, 63 caps) - David Smith (NZ) - Josua Tuisova (Fiji) - Ivan Roux
Fullbacks : Leigh Halfpenny (Wales, 55 caps) - Delon Armitage (England, 26 caps))

So at best, they will have Chiocci, Tillous-Borde and Bastareaud as French 1st XV players (maybe Suta)? Feel bad for guys like Bruni and Gunther, bid your time, play bit parts and then they just bring in Gorgodze and Vosloo.
 
Finally Ian Evans will not join Toulon
Sheridan will surely end his career and Claasens will surely left (JIFF-quota)


Toulon squad for the next season :

Loosehead props : Fabien Barcella (20 caps) - Xavier Chiocci - Alexandre Menini - Florian Fresia
Hookers : Guillem Guirado (21 caps) - Craig Burden (Sth Africa) - Jean-Charles Orioli
Tighthead props : Carl Hayman (NZ, 45 caps) - Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy, 105 caps) - Levan Chilachava (Georgia, 15 caps)
Locks : Bakkies Botha (SA, 78 caps) - Ali Williams (NZ, 77 caps) - Joce Suta (5 caps) - Romain Taofifenua (3 caps) - Kote Mikautadze (20 caps)
Flankers : JM Fernandez-Lobbe (Arg, 56 caps) - Mamuka Gorgodze (Geo, 57 caps) - Juan Smith (SA, 69 caps) - Virgile Bruni - Gerhard Vosloo (SA)
Eightmen : Steffon Armitage (England, 5 caps) - Chris Masoe (NZ, 20 caps)
Scrumhalves : Sébastien Tillous-Borde (8 caps) - Nicolas Durand (2 caps) - Eric Escande
Flyhalves : Frederic Michalak (69 caps) - James O'Connor (Australia, 44 caps)
Centres : Matt Giteau (Aus, 92 caps) - Mathieu Bastareaud (23 caps) - Maxime Mermoz (27 caps) - Rudi Wulf (NZ, 4 caps) - Théo Bélan
Wingers : Bryan Habana (SA, 95 caps) - Drew Mitchell (Aus, 63 caps) - David Smith (NZ) - Josua Tuisova (Fiji) - Ivan Roux
Fullbacks : Leigh Halfpenny (Wales, 55 caps) - Delon Armitage (England, 26 caps))

thanks for that Croket. Nice to see it laid out like that, nice and clear.

So at best, they will have Chiocci, Tillous-Borde and Bastareaud as French 1st XV players (maybe Suta)? Feel bad for guys like Bruni and Gunther, bid your time, play bit parts and then they just bring in Gorgodze and Vosloo.

that's right. Obviously not enough Frenchmen there, and yet they are the best European team...other clubs can only (and will) follow the formula...
Gunther in particular was a very enthusiastic, energetic guy. It sucks for him. But he doesn't compare to a Juan Smith or a Lobbe, does he ....
 
Tony, gaston, what d'you think ? I quite like it. Very simple, barely different from the actual word...but nice and catchy. How could we have been so....blind, all this time....

WTF are they...............if anyone bothered to look at the Top 14 thread they would know there is no club by that name in the Top 13 or there was not last season anyway?

Scotty asks the Toulon fans club or Country.............answer would have to be like the vast majority, CLUB!
 
So he we go again Attack Toulon attack the French clubs, because of money once again some of you guys never give up........ Is it a sin to put club before country obviously it is but has none of you ever heard of freedom of choice, we are the guys who go to the French games every week we are the guys who make whose choices, but it seems we are once again wrong.
The choices made by the FFR have pis**** an awful lot of French people off and the continual abysmal results do not help, made through bad selection from a coach who is a person placed in a position then commanded by others from behind the scenes...
The club v country plus the money situation will never end for you guys, we however do not see it in the same light, slowly everyone in the TOP 14 is arriving at a level playing field, not just yet but in a few seasons Toulon will not be on their own, they will be joined by Clermont, Toulouse, Montpellier, Racing and others i personally think that this could leave to European dommination by the French clubs, but also on the home scene no one understands the values of a Bouclier de Brennus, or just wants to ignore it!!!! this is a French competion that out weighs all the others well the European one that is, ask any French rugby player Bouclier or H Cup or whatever they are going to call it, the answer Bouclier every time..... That is why teams are strenghening themselves they can play both sides of the coin like Toulon have done this season and last
The salary cap, there is one and it has to be adherred to (10 mil) !!!!!!! Jiff is in place 50 / 55% of the squad must be French or come out of French academy before 21 yrs old.
Plus what we have in France is the DGNN which is attached to the tax offices a vicious band who can have you demoted by 2/3 divisions if your books are not in order.
and as far as Toulon's spending goes the Stade Francais president has just accused Boujellal of not staying under the salary cap we now have a court case as he has invited the authorities to check and then he will be able to sue Mon Savare as he denies all allegations!!!!!
Scotty the team you selected is nothing like that at all if you don't know ask!!!!!!!!
and please no more club v country v money v my dad is bigger than your dad, v my willy is longer than yours bull ****, i'm now going back to bed on my rugby free hols until the last week in June? PLEASE B E do not wake me up again GOODNIGHT!!!!!!!!
 
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Ok, ok, sorry !! Sheesh ! May thy deep slumber commence...
 
I want to understand the French rugby culture more. Can you guys give me an idea of what the pathways are like for rugby under Top 14? From what i've heard it isn't that well organised as other countries, could this be a more fundamental problem?

I think it's pretty impossible to stop the Top 14 juggernaut, it is a massive tournament now and rightly so, and it will continue to grow in revenue and thus political strength.

In Wales you start with club rugby like everybody else, then you might get spotted for the Welsh schools team, then you might get into a regional junior development scheme (not actual academy) which are funded by the WRU and then regional academy squad and then National age grade squad. If you don't make it and you want to stay in rugby you'll try and get into the best club you can and work your way up and be spotted. Pretty straight forward, most likely because it's a very small country.

England which is a more similarly sized country is different. Again you start with club rugby, then you go to county, maybe rfu regional side after that, then if you're good enough at a young age you are involved with pro club academy developmental squads, then maybe full youth academy training squad and then maybe RFU national squad. Then when you get older maybe you'll go to a public/grammar (private boarding) school or get a scholarship and you'll be involved in the set up there, if its a really good one it might as well be professional (Millfield,Sedbergh,Colston's etc...). Then the system is pretty much the same, except you might get into the full academy side, if not and you decide to stick to rugby you will probably switch clubs to try and work your way up there.
 
In France you can start as early as 4/5 years old, we have at Montpellier the mini poussins who are around that age... Schools do not play vast amounts of rugby but it does happens, young school kids have to be part of an official affiliated FFR club as you need assurance and a license to play rugby in France what ever age you are.
In the clubs everything is well structured the biggger the club the better the structure normally, eg at Montpellier where i am a club official, we have just over a 1,000 license holders in all cats. including 3 female teams 2 of which were French Champions this season.
Normally you stay with your club throughout the school years, if you make the grade you can enter the clubs academy and carry on what is normally know as sports etudes which is similar to UNI, but with rugby as a plus.Trinh- Duc and Ouedraogo both joined Montpellier around 12 years old and are still playing for them.
The big difference i found having played in both countries is the social standings are completely different. In the UK its grammar or public schools who play the sport, then UNI and club rugby, in France every village has its rugby club more or less and the pitches are always in hearing distance of the village church bells. The players come from all walks of life, the team i played for before the pro era, had Gendarmes, Dustbin men Doctors Builders, teachers company directors etc etc a real mish mash of social standings, not at all clicky like some UK clubs were in the past. The social side used to be around the weekend and everyone was always invited whatever their social standing was.
The progression is much easy in France if you make the grade as you are already in the club and of course coaches talk and as you move up the different age levels, you are contacted by county reps who put your name forward and of couse you can finish up International like the 2 mentioned above. I found playing in France was far more enjoyable than the UK but a hell of a lot tougher, i've played in Stade Mayol and that is tough....every game was a battle and fighting was almost, the most important then the rugby, but things have changed since those glorious years!!!!
I do know Millfield and Colstans as i have met Andy Robinson on occaisons so i am aware of those kind of set ups but they are for the elite more than for anybody and everybody, this is why i think the French systems are good as anyone can play rugby even if they are not academically successful, eg Blaco was an electrician in a factory before he was discovered. (one of many).
This is my insight into the French rugby system it is not gospel and it is my experiences but i have been in the system for a long number of years and will be starting my 9th season with Montpellier very shortly, i also did the 2007 W Cup as a anti drug controller.......... Hope this gives you some sort of idea how it works over here.
 
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I would like to add my two pennies worth from an ignorant ex rugby player who has had experience in France for the last several years of seeing the rugby in action....

Biarritz (and probably Bayonne too) runs a number of junior teams and, as Gaston says, there many,many smaller clubs in the villages all around this area that, in addition to playing matches in leagues, also run junior rugby sections.

The other day I passed through a place called Cambo les Bains, which is where Rodrigues the ex Director of BO rugby has a small hotel. It has a good size rugby club house with two rugby pitches where there upwards of 100 children of various ages under, I would say, thirteen playing knock about games or training with rugby balls.

These village clubs have regular contact with BO and Bayonne and players move to the bigger club's academies from the junior clubs when they are felt to be ready and have the ability. If they do not make it to the bigger clubs there is a very strong second division (enhanced by the presence of USAP and Biarritz) this season from which Oyonnax, Grenoble, and Bordeaux have recently been playing their rugby! In this particular area, Biarritz have, as fellow Pro 2 competitors, Dax, Mont De Marsan, Pau and Agen

There are plenty of ways for the future of French rugby to grow their own talent and the presence of "foreign" mercenaries are an inspiration and useful mentors to them.

Finally, there is no question of club against Country debate because the FFR have made it impossible to want to support the national team over the clubs which are, in any case, the centre of most supporters attention who, in the main, are local to those towns and cities!
 
also the price for many people season ticket at Montpellier behind the sticks 290 € for 16 games 18.125 € per game International can be more than a season Ticket if you want a good seat just to watch PSA's Muppets no thanks........ whats more i'm lucky parking and admission but i haver to work for it.... and they allow me only so much beer tough tough at the top.......
 
very good post gaston, taught me a lot. Not bad for a deep sleeper, you articulate your thoughts fairly well in your somnolence !
What position did you play ?

As for Tony, adding your two pensises (that's what you wrote, right ?? I'm slightly dyslexic at times...) was an interesting move too. So you played too, what position ?

How I wish I'd have fallen in love with Rugby earlier...(and had regular health this past decade !!!!!!...). I really believe if I'm lucid that I'd have made a good center...never shied away from physical contact, and I love to sacrifice for others. And I loved passing as a basketballer. 28 this coming July, fk it. Ain't happening.

As a keyboard/television specialist, I have no tales to recount here...but I'd like to read what FrenchFan has to say about all that.
 

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