Trans Women In Sport (Mainly UK Specific)

[ncurd]

Thought this was slightly separate for politics.

My view is pretty much a safety thing or the ability compete in an unfair way backed by Science but since the UK Supreme Court ruling we are seeing people just doing it because of "biological sex" or more accurately gender perceived at birth. I use this term because there is no scientific backing for a biological sex binary as ruled by the supreme court and we've seen predominantly in sport with Intersex people competing as woman the issues that entails who grew up as women and female on thier birth certifcate.

Now its happening in sports where at grassroots mixed gendered teams have always been fine and nobody really had an issue with that so its not safety thing or a competitive things (a handful of extremely exceptional cis-women have played some first class cricket).

ECB says transgender women cannot compete in women's cricket with immediate effect

The England and Wales Cricket Board bans transgender women from women's cricket with immediate effect.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I get it at the elite level and I guess some contact sports at the amateur level. But the just for funsies Sunday league isn't helped by this rule.

 

[Saintjay]

Thought this was slightly separate for politics.

My view is pretty much a safety thing or the ability compete in an unfair way backed by Science but since the UK Supreme Court ruling we are seeing people just doing it because of "biological sex" or more accurately gender perceived at birth. I use this term because there is no scientific backing for a biological sex binary as ruled by the supreme court and we've seen predominantly in sport with Intersex people competing as woman the issues that entails who grew up as women and female on thier birth certifcate.

Now its happening in sports where at grassroots mixed gendered teams have always been fine and nobody really had an issue with that so its not safety thing or a competitive things (a handful of extremely exceptional cis-women have played some first class cricket).

ECB says transgender women cannot compete in women's cricket with immediate effect

The England and Wales Cricket Board bans transgender women from women's cricket with immediate effect.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's further complicated by the question should you need a GRC to compete or not at elite level.

If the answer is yes then you are creating a teir of trans athletes who can partake.

 

[ncurd]

I get it at the elite level and I guess some contact sports at the amateur level. But the just for funsies Sunday league isn't helped by this rule.

I think contact sports at the amatuer and semi-pro level is the main area of genuine concern as it becomes a safety thing.

We know as elite or US terms College level nobody is really making it enough in non-contact sports that even registers the slightest blip apart from 1 or 2 very isolated cases.

It's further complicated by the question should you need a GRC to compete or not at elite level.

If the answer is yes then you are creating a teir of trans athletes who can partake.

I think the issue of self ID is for one politics. I'd take the entire idea of it out the GRC proves nothing from a biological capability perspective. Its up to sports science and individual sports to determine if a distinct unfair advantage can be obtained or there is a safety issues. Then becomes of questions of how long ago you transitioned if you take medications and at what age you were.

They can chose on self-ID or not but countries do use it so there's no point in governing based on that alone.

 

[Saintjay]

I think contact sports at the amatuer and semi-pro level is the main area of genuine concern as it becomes a safety thing.

We know as elite or US terms College level nobody is really making it enough in non-contact sports that even registers the slightest blip apart from 1 or 2 very isolated cases.

I think the issue of self ID is for one politics. I'd take the entire idea of it out the GRC proves nothing from a biological capability perspective. Its up to sports science and individual sports to determine if a distinct unfair advantage can be obtained or there is a safety issues. Then becomes of questions of how long ago you transitioned if you take medications and at what age you were.

They can chose on self-ID or not but countries do use it so there's no point in governing based on that alone.

I don't know the answer to any of this. Especially as to how you make it fair.

World rugby has trans women as - finding that they are "stronger by 25% to 50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than biological females"

I'm assuming this translate to most sports which on face value doesn't seem fair, yet nor does excluding people either.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't know the answer to any of this. Especially as to how you make it fair.

World rugby has trans women as - finding that they are "stronger by 25% to 50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than biological females"

I'm assuming this translate to most sports which on face value doesn't seem fair, yet nor does excluding people either.

I'm not sure about that to be honest, it's unfortunate but no different to someone being in a wheelchair not being able to compete in able bodied sport in my opinion.

Trans people want, and deserve, equality. If it's proven that they have an unfair advantage competing in sport than I don't see any justifiable complaint that they aren't allowed to do so because it's not equality.

If there's no proven advantage, and I don't think the research is there yet to comment with assurance one way or the other, then it should not be a problem.

I think we need a proper unbiased study preferably funded by sporting bodies before integration is possible.

For something like basketball where height is an advantage, I don't see how it could be possible.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Riders with EPO had(have lol) a 10% advantage over clean riders. That's the difference between winning the gold medal and sitting at home.

You'd have to have differences well below that for it to be fair.

 

[Saintjay]

I'm not sure about that to be honest, it's unfortunate but no different to someone being in a wheelchair not being able to compete in able bodied sport in my opinion.

Trans people want, and deserve, equality. If it's proven that they have an unfair advantage competing in sport than I don't see any justifiable complaint that they aren't allowed to do so because it's not equality.

If there's no proven advantage, and I don't think the research is there yet to comment with assurance one way or the other, then it should not be a problem.

I think we need a proper unbiased study preferably funded by sporting bodies before integration is possible.

For something like basketball where height is an advantage, I don't see how it could be possible.

I'm assuming world rugby are basing those figures on some sort of study.
Again I'm guessing they are looking at a safety point of view.

I honestly don't think they can wait for it to be definitely proven. I guess like most sports all these questions are new and how do you base safety and fairness on the current information available. Not sure on the source they use for the advantages.

Transgender Guidelines | World Rugby

World Rugby guidelines on transgender.

www.world.rugby