Transformation in Springbok Rugby- Sports Minister Quotes from the Post WC conf

[saulan]

Source:
http://citizen.co.za/853993/live-mbalulas-world-cup-briefing/

Quoting Sports Minister Fikile Mbalula:

• The message we are giving is not being driven home… transformation goals are not being met.
• A public commitment to sustainable transformation has been made.
• Two transformation reports have been made. The first was for establishing a baseline in SA’s biggest sports. The EPG set and recommended targets over a medium term.
• The next report will target the top 5 sport’s transformation progress, or lack thereof.
• Targets have been made and set, with measures in place for failing
• Non-compliance with transformation will result in suspending of government funding, withdrawal from government recognition of the federation. Withdrawal of the federations ability to give national colours. Requests the minister in writing to add directives to achieve such transformation.
• All federations are on course for realising their [transformation] targets.
• Our foremost preoccupation is the sad reality of South African [racial makeups in sport].
• We agree with the International Olympic Committee that SA government cannot interfere with team or coach selection in South African sport.
• We remain driven to deliver a non-racialised, non-sexist sporting platform in South Africa.
• When we went to the RWC, there was no way that SARU would have met the targets that they’ve agreed to of 50/50. But in terms of our own approach to transformation, it is organic, it is all inclusive.
• We are not the people who are undermining transformation in the country. We expect SARU, on appointment of coaches as so on, that this policy that they are bound to, is implemented. The time frames that we are sticking to is a period of 5 years.
• Players that are selected should be given game time. All players that are selected to play for national teams we feel are selected on merit and deserve to play for the national team.
• As we have said, the minister does not make team selections or say how a team should play. SARU hire and fire coaches. I have no document on my desk that says that SARU has selected a coach for the next 4 years.
• Quotas became the “be all and end all†in transformation. All those who have undermined transformation have misused quotas.
• I’d like to thank all South Africans who took part in supporting the [Springbok] national team.
• I am a proponent of that which is progressive.
• Sport must be played at every corner in this country, in every school. The majority of black rugby players have not gone through the organic, grassroots level of rugby at disadvantaged schools. They come from the top 40 rugby schools in the country.
• I’m zooming in on rugby because it is as if nothing has been done [in terms of transformation].
• We are digging our heads into the sand when it comes to transformation.
• Afriforum also took us to the international courts of justice to say that we are tampering with the system in terms of the national team. The Freedom Front plus complained to the British High Commission â€" we defeated ALL of those with this policy, it commits us to the constitutional framework of the country.
• We have got a policy in place that must be implemented.
• If you ask me in 5 years and I am still in place, “what happened to your policy at the next World Cup as it was not yet done†â€" it will be justifiable.
• When I raised the issue of Victor Matfield, not now but when he was a hero, I was attacked! “He does not know what he is doing!â€
• I understand what needs to be done â€" policy. You do not have to be an alcohol expert to drink it, you just drink it and get drunk!
• No one said to me “how will the squad be represented at the world cup?â€
• We went to the World Cup with 8 or 9 players of colour, most of them did not play…
• If Shakes Mashaba is made coach, I will support him. If Heyneke Meyer is made coach, I will support him.
• None of you have raised an issue with SARU about the coach or the players â€" you have raised it with me. I don’t select players â€" I don’t coach. SARU selects players and coaches.
• I answer only to policy.
• Pieter deVilliers was the old coach â€" he did not have the lattitude… he selected all of those blacks, but they were on the bench!
• The players in terms of this agreement, who are going to be at the next world cup must play NOW.
• The coach was appointed by the board â€" that board today is a good board, because it is only the coach who is a problem but the board has not been taken on for its decision. When I got here, SARU was lead by Blacks, Africans, and all those who did that are gone now.
• I do not need a scientific person to come from the Americas or from heaven to tell me that people do not like transformation.
• You can never say that you do not like transformation and that transformation is not relevant and needed in South Africa â€" IT IS.
• We never stopped with transformation, we are continuing.
• For the first time I see media, I am told we are live on TV. That shows the importance of [transformation] in South Africa. Hold us accountable for what we do and what we have done.
• When I invite the media they think it is a Razzmatazz party and don’t come, but I want to interact as I am now.
• That is what we are doing today, again discussing policy. We are consistant with policy, don’t take us to the Haige! Take us here, the Johannesburg constitutional court.
• The coach of New Zealand says before the semifinals that he pities our coach because he has to deal with transformation â€" but he withdraws his comment! I was about to jump on his neck!
• There is a developmental structure that has worked in New Zealand, and it has worked well.
• If you are a black player here and you go to hospital with a broken neck, you will not come back! We will say you are a drunkard and you will never come back. Not there though.
• If by next year rugby has not been able to transform, we will be able to say that these are the steps that we will be taking against you.
• That journey for an effective implementation of transformation in South Africa has just begun.
• I am saying to you, not because there is an accident, but precisely because there is a journey we are traversing.
• Everyone, including SARU, has signed this agreement.

QUESTION AND ANSWER SEGMENT:
First Round of Questions:

1. If they don’t adhere to policy what steps can be taken by government?
2. Minister, you were decisive with dealing with Cricket SA, but in rugby you are dealing with it with kiddish gloves â€" do you think human capital is not as important as cash? SA Rugby has not come close to the 50% target â€" please respond to this difference in how you handled with responses.
3. Are you still confident that you can reach the 50% target by 2019? What about provincial rugby â€" how must we have 50% at national
4. Heyneke Meyer was quoted as saying that the ANC was happy with how he performed â€" did you congratulate him on his performance and use of black players?

Mbalula Answers:

• (To question 4) First, I did congratulate the coach and players, I was in the dressing room… that is what I do all the time. The ANC did release a statement and I must say, I salute this bunch of Springbok players â€" they would have been a bunch of winners if they won the RWC2015, but they were not a bunch of losers. They fought a difficult world cup and never gave up. I saw compatriots on that field. Only a fool would not have seen that. South Africans do not think alike, whenever Springboks lose, the talk is about transformation. When I said “those Boertkies kan verg†they can! I was right. They can do things not even New Zealand can understand… I say they are boertjies because they predominantly talk Afrikaans, not because they are all Afrikaners.
• (To question 2) I have mentioned which steps will be taken. One of which, deregister the team, will not support bids for big events and we will withdraw national colours. You participate in the World Cup by virtue of your country.
• (To question 1 and 3) There are no kid-gloves. I said on the 18 May when we signed an agreement that the Springbok national team would not been able to achieve the targets we are talking about. I am not changing like a chameleon, we go with the principle â€" what is that principle? WE AGREED WITH SARU ON 50/50. In that approach we agreed on something organic, that starts from the bottom. We look at the team and its body â€" we forget about the Currie Cup and franchises, most of the players selected come from the franchises. Our approach is to look at this organically and holistically. These franchises, so from Craven Week, we must insure that players are affirmed and able to play in elite sides in rugby. If you look at hte Springboks only having 3 or 4 black players, that isn’t the issue â€" the issue is in franchises and schools. Mkhaya Ntini wouldn’t have become who he is, with all his talent, if he did not go to Dale College. There there are coaches and proper nutrition and infrastructure. The majority of schools play soccer, not rugby â€" that needs to be addressed. If we want to address the demographics simply by selecting players to meet a target we will not change anything. We need to work organically on the most talented players. Look at Pollard, he was taken from the u20 Springboks and selected and groomed to become the best flyhalf. Is there a possibility that this happens for all the kids in the system â€" yes there is. It is not a case of his race or anything like that. We must understand how we can nurture and preserve talent going forward. If administrators are sleeping on the job and we don’t put developmental structures in place, it will never happen.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

How many black players would be able (Even at a push) to get in the boks 23 based on form?

 

[TheOvalBall]

• The coach of New Zealand says before the semifinals that he pities our coach because he has to deal with transformation – but he withdraws his comment! I was about to jump on his neck!

And this is exactly why the Sports Minister should be locked up and the key thrown away.

 

[mdaclarke]

"We agree with the International Olympic Committee that SA government cannot interfere with team or coach selection in South African sport."
"Quotas became the “be all and end all†in transformation. All those who have undermined transformation have misused quotas."

These two quote are the important ones in my opinion. It shows that for all the strong talk, the ANC knows it can only go so far because the international sports federations will only put up with so much state interference. Also it is not up to the government to decide which federation can award colours, it is up to the sports federations.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

Mbalula said black players should only earn selection if they were deserving of their place in the side: ‘Black players must not be included because the populace is crying. They must be included on merit.’

I hope this is the case.

As mentioned on another thread, SARU need to get it right in a handful of schools across the country and really focus on excellence in a few of these institutions. That way there will at least be some tangible results in the medium term

 

[mdaclarke]

The more black players that are encourage to play the game in South Africa the better, it will mean more players to choose from and a stronger national team. However the national team must be picked on merit and merit alone.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing that did make me chuckle was the threat to withdraw government funding. It is my understanding (I stand to be corrected) that the SARU is completely self funding, so if there was any transfer of funds it is certainly not going from the Government to SARU

 

[PacDuran]

Source:
http://citizen.co.za/853993/live-mbalulas-world-cup-briefing/

Quoting Sports Minister Fikile Mbalula:

• The message we are giving is not being driven home… transformation goals are not being met.
• A public commitment to sustainable transformation has been made.
• Two transformation reports have been made. The first was for establishing a baseline in SA's biggest sports. The EPG set and recommended targets over a medium term.
• The next report will target the top 5 sport's transformation progress, or lack thereof.
• Targets have been made and set, with measures in place for failing
• Non-compliance with transformation will result in suspending of government funding, withdrawal from government recognition of the federation. Withdrawal of the federations ability to give national colours. Requests the minister in writing to add directives to achieve such transformation.
• All federations are on course for realising their [transformation] targets.
• Our foremost preoccupation is the sad reality of South African [racial makeups in sport].
• We agree with the International Olympic Committee that SA government cannot interfere with team or coach selection in South African sport.
• We remain driven to deliver a non-racialised, non-sexist sporting platform in South Africa.
• When we went to the RWC, there was no way that SARU would have met the targets that they've agreed to of 50/50. But in terms of our own approach to transformation, it is organic, it is all inclusive.
• We are not the people who are undermining transformation in the country. We expect SARU, on appointment of coaches as so on, that this policy that they are bound to, is implemented. The time frames that we are sticking to is a period of 5 years.
• Players that are selected should be given game time. All players that are selected to play for national teams we feel are selected on merit and deserve to play for the national team.
• As we have said, the minister does not make team selections or say how a team should play. SARU hire and fire coaches. I have no document on my desk that says that SARU has selected a coach for the next 4 years.
• Quotas became the "be all and end all" in transformation. All those who have undermined transformation have misused quotas.
• I'd like to thank all South Africans who took part in supporting the [Springbok] national team.
• I am a proponent of that which is progressive.
• Sport must be played at every corner in this country, in every school. The majority of black rugby players have not gone through the organic, grassroots level of rugby at disadvantaged schools. They come from the top 40 rugby schools in the country.
• I'm zooming in on rugby because it is as if nothing has been done [in terms of transformation].
• We are digging our heads into the sand when it comes to transformation.
• Afriforum also took us to the international courts of justice to say that we are tampering with the system in terms of the national team. The Freedom Front plus complained to the British High Commission – we defeated ALL of those with this policy, it commits us to the constitutional framework of the country.
• We have got a policy in place that must be implemented.
• If you ask me in 5 years and I am still in place, "what happened to your policy at the next World Cup as it was not yet done" – it will be justifiable.
• When I raised the issue of Victor Matfield, not now but when he was a hero, I was attacked! "He does not know what he is doing!"
• I understand what needs to be done – policy. You do not have to be an alcohol expert to drink it, you just drink it and get drunk!
• No one said to me "how will the squad be represented at the world cup?"
• We went to the World Cup with 8 or 9 players of colour, most of them did not play…
• If Shakes Mashaba is made coach, I will support him. If Heyneke Meyer is made coach, I will support him.
• None of you have raised an issue with SARU about the coach or the players – you have raised it with me. I don't select players – I don't coach. SARU selects players and coaches.
• I answer only to policy.
• Pieter deVilliers was the old coach – he did not have the lattitude… he selected all of those blacks, but they were on the bench!
• The players in terms of this agreement, who are going to be at the next world cup must play NOW.
• The coach was appointed by the board – that board today is a good board, because it is only the coach who is a problem but the board has not been taken on for its decision. When I got here, SARU was lead by Blacks, Africans, and all those who did that are gone now.
• I do not need a scientific person to come from the Americas or from heaven to tell me that people do not like transformation.
• You can never say that you do not like transformation and that transformation is not relevant and needed in South Africa – IT IS.
• We never stopped with transformation, we are continuing.
• For the first time I see media, I am told we are live on TV. That shows the importance of [transformation] in South Africa. Hold us accountable for what we do and what we have done.
• When I invite the media they think it is a Razzmatazz party and don't come, but I want to interact as I am now.
• That is what we are doing today, again discussing policy. We are consistant with policy, don't take us to the Haige! Take us here, the Johannesburg constitutional court.
• The coach of New Zealand says before the semifinals that he pities our coach because he has to deal with transformation – but he withdraws his comment! I was about to jump on his neck!
• There is a developmental structure that has worked in New Zealand, and it has worked well.
• If you are a black player here and you go to hospital with a broken neck, you will not come back! We will say you are a drunkard and you will never come back. Not there though.
• If by next year rugby has not been able to transform, we will be able to say that these are the steps that we will be taking against you.
• That journey for an effective implementation of transformation in South Africa has just begun.
• I am saying to you, not because there is an accident, but precisely because there is a journey we are traversing.
• Everyone, including SARU, has signed this agreement.

QUESTION AND ANSWER SEGMENT:
First Round of Questions:

1. If they don't adhere to policy what steps can be taken by government?
2. Minister, you were decisive with dealing with Cricket SA, but in rugby you are dealing with it with kiddish gloves – do you think human capital is not as important as cash? SA Rugby has not come close to the 50% target – please respond to this difference in how you handled with responses.
3. Are you still confident that you can reach the 50% target by 2019? What about provincial rugby – how must we have 50% at national
4. Heyneke Meyer was quoted as saying that the ANC was happy with how he performed – did you congratulate him on his performance and use of black players?

Mbalula Answers:

• (To question 4) First, I did congratulate the coach and players, I was in the dressing room… that is what I do all the time. The ANC did release a statement and I must say, I salute this bunch of Springbok players – they would have been a bunch of winners if they won the RWC2015, but they were not a bunch of losers. They fought a difficult world cup and never gave up. I saw compatriots on that field. Only a fool would not have seen that. South Africans do not think alike, whenever Springboks lose, the talk is about transformation. When I said "those Boertkies kan verg" they can! I was right. They can do things not even New Zealand can understand… I say they are boertjies because they predominantly talk Afrikaans, not because they are all Afrikaners.
• (To question 2) I have mentioned which steps will be taken. One of which, deregister the team, will not support bids for big events and we will withdraw national colours. You participate in the World Cup by virtue of your country.
• (To question 1 and 3) There are no kid-gloves. I said on the 18 May when we signed an agreement that the Springbok national team would not been able to achieve the targets we are talking about. I am not changing like a chameleon, we go with the principle – what is that principle? WE AGREED WITH SARU ON 50/50. In that approach we agreed on something organic, that starts from the bottom. We look at the team and its body – we forget about the Currie Cup and franchises, most of the players selected come from the franchises. Our approach is to look at this organically and holistically. These franchises, so from Craven Week, we must insure that players are affirmed and able to play in elite sides in rugby. If you look at hte Springboks only having 3 or 4 black players, that isn't the issue – the issue is in franchises and schools. Mkhaya Ntini wouldn't have become who he is, with all his talent, if he did not go to Dale College. There there are coaches and proper nutrition and infrastructure. The majority of schools play soccer, not rugby – that needs to be addressed. If we want to address the demographics simply by selecting players to meet a target we will not change anything. We need to work organically on the most talented players. Look at Pollard, he was taken from the u20 Springboks and selected and groomed to become the best flyhalf. Is there a possibility that this happens for all the kids in the system – yes there is. It is not a case of his race or anything like that. We must understand how we can nurture and preserve talent going forward. If administrators are sleeping on the job and we don't put developmental structures in place, it will never happen.

Uh oh Saffers are about to go through a painful 15 years.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is a typical "shifting-the-blame" statement from Mbalula.

From this statement it seems like Government is doing everything while SARU isn't doing anything, or at least not enough with regard to transformation.

The Dept. of Sports has now a 10-year plan for transformation, and the Government has invested R1 Billion so far in this program. But if the transformation doesn't happen as they like, they are threatening to no longer invest in SARU. But that would mean that transformation won't take place at all... So Government is basically going to shoot themselves in the foot with these threats.

 

[Durbanite]

This is a typical "shifting-the-blame" statement from Mbalula.

From this statement it seems like Government is doing everything while SARU isn't doing anything, or at least not enough with regard to transformation.

The Dept. of Sports has now a 10-year plan for transformation, and the Government has invested R1 Billion so far in this program. But if the transformation doesn't happen as they like, they are threatening to no longer invest in SARU. But that would mean that transformation won't take place at all... So Government is basically going to shoot themselves in the foot with these threats.

Spot on, he's basically backed himself into a corner. Seems that rugby in SA might be coming to a crossroads. Wouldn't it be interesting if ANC withdrew all support from SARU, can we still play rugby? If so, I bet transformation goals would still be met in time either way. 10 years is a long time in the rugby world.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Spot on, he's basically backed himself into a corner. Seems that rugby in SA might be coming to a crossroads. Wouldn't it be interesting if ANC withdrew all support from SARU, can we still play rugby? If so, I bet transformation goals would still be met in time either way. 10 years is a long time in the rugby world.

Yes, we will still be able to play Rugby. But we won't be allowed to play in National Colours. Which doesn't really matter because basically it means that the Protea won't feature on the jersey. So at least then the Springbok emblem (which is the property of SARU) will go back to it's rightful place.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

R1 Billion is a lot of money. I wonder how they are using it? Putting up fields, goals and boots to every school without them and leaving it there is not going to achieve anything. Where do the Sprigboks come from? They come from only a handful of rugby-centric schools (tantamount to rugby academies) the vast majority of them. I went to school with Josh Strauss and Andries Bekker. Our rugby coach in grade 8 didn't even bother to turn up for practice and we invariably ended up splitting into groups with some playing touch and some full on mini-games in the 22s. I feel I can garauntee those two are pro rugby players now for the fact that they left for Paul Roos Gimnasium ASAP just as much if not more than for their inate ability.

What SARU has to do is focused investment. Put up 2 rugby academies in EP, 1 in Kwa-Zulu Natal, Soweto and Polokwane to give young players with an interest the option of facilities and especially coaching approaching a level of parity with the more traditional 'rugby schools' to which many black player do go it has to be said. I think the mobile unit currently set up is a step in the right direction but how much can they do realistically? Now how do we promote the sport and get young black boys (and girls) interested in the sport. Well, there's only so much you can force on someone and I would say the best way to go about it is for our teams to win. Simple as that. So while we focus on getting high quality training to focussed areas we make sure our pro teams are as competitive as we can. That's where forced quotas is counteractive though. Scrap it as a stupid idea. What we also can do is make sure our rugby is a tad more entertaining. Drop Meyer.

My 2 cents.

 

[j'nuh]

This guy is contradicting himself. He says that the transformation has to be organic, and then he says that 50/50 is achievable by 2019. I guess he doesn't realise that there's a long turnaround between generations? 50/50 is doable, but time is needed for the youth (products of the current environment) to embed themselves in professional rugby. 15 years should see all current players retire and be replaced with this new generation, so that's the time frame I would give. Four years is ridiculous.

Also, I'm not convinced race is entirely the issue. If it's true that ~40 elite schools provide the bulk of rugby players, there's a class issue too. If SARU open up youth academies and provide scholarships for black people to attend these schools, you may end up with a system where impoverished white children are entirely ignored; too poor to attend an elite school and not given the same chances for scholarships and joining academies as black children. Whilst this system is better than the current, class in a wider context may need to be considered in future.

 

[TRF_heineken]

R1 Billion is a lot of money. I wonder how they are using it? Putting up fields, goals and boots to every school without them and leaving it there is not going to achieve anything. Where do the Sprigboks come from? They come from only a handful of rugby-centric schools (tantamount to rugby academies) the vast majority of them. I went to school with Josh Strauss and Andries Bekker. Our rugby coach in grade 8 didn't even bother to turn up for practice and we invariably ended up splitting into groups with some playing touch and some full on mini-games in the 22s. I feel I can garauntee those two are pro rugby players now for the fact that they left for Paul Roos Gimnasium ASAP just as much if not more than for their inate ability.

What SARU has to do is focused investment. Put up 2 rugby academies in EP, 1 in Kwa-Zulu Natal, Soweto and Polokwane to give young players with an interest the option of facilities and especially coaching approaching a level of parity with the more traditional 'rugby schools' to which many black player do go it has to be said. I think the mobile unit currently set up is a step in the right direction but how much can they do realistically? Now how do we promote the sport and get young black boys (and girls) interested in the sport. Well, there's only so much you can force on someone and I would say the best way to go about it is for our teams to win. Simple as that. So while we focus on getting high quality training to focussed areas we make sure our pro teams are as competitive as we can. That's where forced quotas is counteractive though. Scrap it as a stupid idea. What we also can do is make sure our rugby is a tad more entertaining. Drop Meyer.

My 2 cents.

Speaking of Polokwane. One of my friends is Director of Sport at one of our local High Schools. it's a private school and it has no sports fields. But is built next to the town's Sporting Complex. SARU has identified that school as one of the schools to start a rugby programme (Because it has 5000 black students). But now the kids doesn't want to play rugby, and my friend has to attend meeting after meeting without any progress.

 

[Durbanite]

Also, I'm not convinced race is entirely the issue. If it's true that ~40 elite schools provide the bulk of rugby players, there's a class issue too.

I believe this is the issue, public school kids (primary school mostly) are severely deprived of any form of rugby in my opinion. It's not only easily available in private schools, they have some amazing programs. It just tips the scale

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Speaking of Polokwane. One of my friends is Director of Sport at one of our local High Schools. it's a private school and it has no sports fields. But is built next to the town's Sporting Complex. SARU has identified that school as one of the schools to start a rugby programme (Because it has 5000 black students). But now the kids doesn't want to play rugby, and my friend has to attend meeting after meeting without any progress.

That's a big issue the higher ups just don't want to acknowledge. Its cultural. I think the French are off their rockers for even considering snails as food, generally speaking SA black people look at rugby and think WTF! Why force anything down anyone's throat if they don't want it. Don't get me wrong here, there are some fantastic black athletes out there and if we can get them into rugby early so they get the necessary 'rugby intellegence' it can only be good for us to broaden our base but it needs to happen organically like the good ministers himself said though I'm not sure he always knows exactly what he is saying.

 

[Da Grappla]

Here we go again

Try to say something without being called "racist"

 

[TheOvalBall]

Yes, we will still be able to play Rugby. But we won't be allowed to play in National Colours. Which doesn't really matter because basically it means that the Protea won't feature on the jersey. So at least then the Springbok emblem (which is the property of SARU) will go back to it's rightful place.

Which i will be very happy with.

 

[mdaclarke]

The reality is there is only so much the government can do. The IOC and world rugby will not tolerate quotas. The SARU is financially independent (I think). It is not up to the government to decide what team can represent a country it is up to the sports authorities. So I do wonder what the government can actually do. Maybe that is what they are referred to as targets rather than quotas.

 

[Ospervat]

Interfere, don't interfere, Quotas, targets, Time frames, Funding, no funding, Transformation, natural selection, Private, public, State, international feds, What a mess!

I just hope and pray the powers that be set their selfish agendas and egos aside and take care otherwise this could get really ugly and the only loser will be rugby.

 

[mdaclarke]

Interfere, don't interfere, Quotas, targets, Time frames, Funding, no funding, Transformation, natural selection, Private, public, State, international feds, What a mess!

I just hope and pray the powers that be set their selfish agendas and egos aside and take care otherwise this could get really ugly and the only loser will be rugby.

It is a mess, but i don't think the South African government actually has much, if any, real power, over the SARU. World Rugby and the IOC are the people with the real power in all this.

If the government interferes too much then World Rugby and IOC will step in and put a stop to it.