[TRF World XV] Winger - Round 1

[TheSaffycen]

I'm just saying bulk has become a big advantage for wingers, provided they keep their mobility and quickness. George North isn't a slowpoke but he's 110kg and picks people up on his way to the tryline and runs like hell.

On the whole it will always help but just watch this

 

[nzlizard]

^ looks more like poor form from the England winger and smart D by Shane.

A fend or a step would have got him over the line as he had a few metres to spare, really poor form by the England winger.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

This thread is depressing; Charles Piutau has no votes but George North has 14 and Savea has 18?
Madness I tell you!

 

[Big Ewis]

Saffycen yeah I know we've had this vid posted numerous times before your presence here...I like Banahan and the English fans told me he sucked for England but was good for his club and I insisted he looked really good in a few matches I saw from him in an England shirt etc...

But you can't give me the one example where a 115kg winger gets put down by tiny SHANE WILLIAMS 5m from the try-line. That will happen once in a hundred attempts, and that's the one percent right here. I think he wasn't expecting Williams to be so aggressive, but he should have shoved him out of the way I mean Bananaman has a monster fend if he really wants to...just weird footage all the way.

It's a shame he never could channel all that potential. I mean 2m tall, 115kg, good mobility, still young, a monster fend, brutal tackles...and here I go again with Matt Banahan...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I agree that 5m from a try line 1v1 a bigger winger will be better. However I think a winger spends more time not in that situation than in it and if extra bulk comes at the cost of pace and agility, it isn't really worth it. Wingers aren't supposed to be the players to run through people and if that's what they are having to do often enough to be bulky, they are probably not being used well. Shane Williams is one of the most successful wings ever and it wasn't from being bulky, it was from cutting defences to pieces with his pace and agility. You then have the likes of Jason Robinson too. You don't need bulk if your opponent can't even touch you.

Wingers have to be bulkier now than in the past because the entire team is bulkier.

 

[Draggs]

Saffycen yeah I know we've had this vid posted numerous times before your presence here...I like Banahan and the English fans told me he sucked for England but was good for his club and I insisted he looked really good in a few matches I saw from him in an England shirt etc...

But you can't give me the one example where a 115kg winger gets put down by tiny SHANE WILLIAMS 5m from the try-line. That will happen once in a hundred attempts, and that's the one percent right here. I think he wasn't expecting Williams to be so aggressive, but he should have shoved him out of the way I mean Bananaman has a monster fend if he really wants to...just weird footage all the way.

It's a shame he never could channel all that potential. I mean 2m tall, 115kg, good mobility, still young, a monster fend, brutal tackles...and here I go again with Matt Banahan...

Banahan is just ****, simple as.

 

[nzlizard]

This thread is depressing; Charles Piutau has no votes but George North has 14 and Savea has 18?
Madness I tell you!

I like Piutau too but compared to the others at international he has a couple of years to go.

 

[TheSaffycen]

It's a shame he never could channel all that potential. I mean 2m tall, 115kg, good mobility, still young, a monster fend, brutal tackles...and here I go again with Matt Banahan...

I think every England fan would like Banahan too live up to his potential but he just doesn't have the brain for it. I've always said that being smart is the most important thing, Banahan goes to high straight at a player instead of going low to the corner. Obviously being bulkier helps but if you don't know when to go and when it's not on I feel it's more important. Look at Savea he is a large Polynesian guy but he is smart and technically gifted, same as North.

 

[nzlizard]

Look at Savea he is a large Polynesian guy but he is smart and technically gifted, same as North.

Savea never used to be imo, he had a natural instinct but it took a lot of work to get him to where he was last year, if he hadn't been working with Cory Jane and a few others he may have not reached this level so quick, no doubt he would have got in the end but the journey would have been a lot harder.

 

[nickdnz]

I think every England fan would like Banahan too live up to his potential but he just doesn't have the brain for it. I've always said that being smart is the most important thing, Banahan goes to high straight at a player instead of going low to the corner. Obviously being bulkier helps but if you don't know when to go and when it's not on I feel it's more important. Look at Savea he is a large Polynesian guy but he is smart and technically gifted, same as North.

...yes.

 

[Big Ewis]

we all agree speed is key for a winger. I'm obviously not saying bulk over everything else, obviously quickness, mobility and flat out speed are essential and the things that'll make the difference...
But as awesome as little Shane was, or guys like Dominici or Bernat-Sales back in the day, I'm not sure that type would be all that appreciated nowadays. Now granted Shane Williams just retired recently and was part of the 2011 RWC for e.g. so he's not part of the "old generation" really or what not, but Rugby is moving with giant steps towards bulk and power throughout a XV, and I do definitely believe those shorter although very fast guys will become more of an odd rarity as time goes on.

Again, Marc Andreu is fkn 1m65 and 75kg, can you imagine that ? And he was picked in the last 6N as a possible backup for the XV de France who aren't exactly lacking talent at the wing.
But it comes with a price. He does have bulk and a super low center of gravity and then blazing speed, but others in his vicinity will have to make up for his lacks elsewhere in his game whereas a Yoann Huget+Benjamin Fall combo would hold its own, on its own.

And a winger isn't "supposed to run over people" and is supposed to be smart and all that, it's all true. But I was watching last week's Round 7 Hurricanes v Crusaders last night and Savea's power is irreplaceable. He was just throwing the likes of Dagg into the stands and committing carnage in that red defense.

I'm not saying that's the only way to go for wingers (Andreu is a fantastic winger still, or Vincent Clerc), and obviously Savea's not just a mindless brute but in Rugby when you can move forward consistently, be a constant tackle-breaking threat and have enough power to move people out of the way and have 2-3 defenders commit to you, that can never be overlooked and most Rugby fans won't admit this because they feel it demeans and over-simplifies a more complex reality of the sport, but it's just a limpid, rigid fact.
Savea's the best winger in the world, and it's got lots to do with those 1m93 and 110kg. He's a tremendous talent, has good technical control and a nose for this sport/a good Rugby IQ, but then there's that power and it's no minor detail.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Haha look a Horgan fly:O). Getting caught by a lock; that says it all really.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Habana deserved more than 4 votes after 2013 surely. These aren't even all his best plays from last year. Also, he makes North looks clumsy ;P

 

[ruggabee]

Habana deserved more than 4 votes after 2013 surely. These aren't even all his best plays from last year. Also, he makes North looks clumsy ;P

Damn, for some reason I thought he'd lost his blistering pace but that video says otherwise. He showed North a clean pair of heels twice. Also in that still before you click play it looks like he's having a mind blowing epiphany

Regarding size and wingers in the game, I don't think it necessarily means that smaller players are losing their place, it's just what coaches like at the moment. Guys like Aplon show that being technically sound defensively and tactically while having blistering pace is still the core make up of a successful outside back. Size is a bonus. Give me a winger with a mean step, out and out pace and a sound all round ability over someone big like North, unless we're talking about Savea, then take Savea.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Habana deserved more than 4 votes after 2013 surely. These aren't even all his best plays from last year. Also, he makes North looks clumsy ;P

if only toulon saw this and realise who they have instead off putting him on the bench and not give him game time

 

[Big Ewis]

*taaaa wwwww* (guitar slide) Teenage Mutant Ninjas Tuuuuuuurtles
Give him a few red strips to wear over his body and eyes and he's Raphael for the next Michael Bay movie.