Tri Nations: All Blacks - Wallabies @ Eden Park (06-08-2011, 08:35 GMT)

Rhyer · Aug 6, 2011

madflyhalf said:
The problem for ABs, IMO, is right about the cover...
Some first choice player are going to stay, but Roko, Sivi, McAlister, Muliaina, Tialata, Thorn (retires)... are going abroad, still quite young and with a chance for an AB spot, along with the growing age of the team (McCaw, Williams, Woodcock, Mealamu, Flynn also Jane), and a few youngsters that haven't already been well tested in international who will need a lot of experience (Dagg, Fruean, SBW as well, Toeava, Cruden)...
And maybe it will take a while to rebuilt, while Australia has already started this project (with different problems though) 4 years ago, and now they has a good advantage of time.

Average age for NZ today was almost 29
Average age for OZ is something like 24.4

That was really a matter of Men against Boys, but let's talk about that in a 2-3 year time, when NZ probably wouldn't have no more Carter, McCaw, Nonu, Jane... but Australia will still have JOC, Beale, Horne, Genia, Pocock, Higginbotham, Fainga'a, Slipper, Horwill, Ioane, Barnes...

New Zealand still have some extremely good young players already with experience...

Cruden, Fruean, SBW, Toeava, Messam, Read, Boric, Whitelock, Braid, Todd, Weepu, Ranger, B.Smith, Dagg, Maitland, Guildford, Savea, Vito, Robinson, Stanley, Franks and many many more when you consider they have won the last few U20 tournaments. I really think New Zealand are in the best position... Australia don't have depth and the Samoa match proved that.

Rhyer · Aug 6, 2011

madflyhalf said:
but let's talk about that in a 2-3 year time, when NZ probably wouldn't have no more Carter, McCaw, Nonu, Jane

Carter has signed to 2015
McCaw has signed to 2015
Nonu has signed to 2013
There are many replacements for Jane even if he doesn't sign but the gossip is he will.

madflyhalf · Aug 6, 2011

Now none of them are better than the Oz counterparts at test-level.
None.

That doesn't mean they won't be better in a few years... But not tomorrow, not 2012, and maybe not 2013 too...

This is what I meant with
"who haven't already been well tested in international level, who will need a lot of experience"

Now you're talking about depth, I'm talking about building a team.

"To build a team" doesn't mean you just have to pick the best 22 men in your country in a moment, and put them together.
This will easy lead to some 60-point home defeat...

It takes a while, surely will take more for Australia than New Zealand, that's why (IMO) they picked Deans 4 years ago, to move on from guys like Giteau, Baxter, Dunning, Mortlock, Tuqiri... I think with an Aussie coach will be much more difficult and when they will realize what Deans's really doing for their country, they would thanks him for many years.

But don't believe NZ will make this in 6 or 9 months!

madflyhalf · Aug 6, 2011

Rhyer said:
Carter has signed to 2015
McCaw has signed to 2015
Nonu has signed to 2013
There are many replacements for Jane even if he doesn't sign but the gossip is he will.

Again

in 2015 McCaw will be 35
in 2013 Carter will be 31
in 2013 Nonu will be 32

Do you really think they will still playing at this level? They wouldn't be human...
Do you really think NZ selectors won't move on from them?

Look at Ireland, who stucked with ROG for years even with Sexton in top form, and now?
They have Sexton who's already 27, and they're still with 34 yo ROG on the bench and Paddy Wallace (32) as cover!

Steveskiez7 · Aug 6, 2011

NZ dominate all the youth competitions and who knows what talent will be surfaced in the next 4 years, Gareth Anscombe is looking really sharp. Have a look at the Reds team players like Fainga, Higginbotham, Davies, Simmons etc. came out of practically nowhere last year and are capped in the Wallabies. This arrogance from the Wallabies is just really annoying because they have no precedence to suggest that they are so great. Samoa game showed how good their depth is.

Gavin · Aug 6, 2011

New Zealand will always find quality players to fill senior player's boots. They've always been the number 1 team in the world; teams seems to go through ebbs and flows, but New Zealand always stay constantly strong.

UilamOsa · Aug 6, 2011

Madflyhalf has the same reasoning I have for the Aussies being the team to beat the in next few years.

I think it will take a few years for both AB's and the Boks to re-establish a team playing at full strength, where Australia already have that now.

This is taking into account Coaching Changes, Individual Performances (like how well Nonu will go at the Blues), sorting out which players are proven match winners over being test match players.

Just re-watching some of the game now. Quade Cooper was out of his depth for the majority of this game.

They'll need a back up option at no 10.

Bring Back Gits

TNT88 · Aug 6, 2011

Not sure we need Gits, maybe we can give him a go at 12 due to current performances. NZ simply had a good plan to stop the Australian attack and it worked, we need to be smarter in the future. The Aussie forwards were doing alright (besides Elsom standing on the wing), we competed well in most aspects of the game and could retain our own ball easy. It was just the attack which never looked very threatening. With this amount of talent i'm sure that is something they can fix before their next game against NZ.

beerholder · Aug 6, 2011

I wouldn't worry about NZ getting good young players. SuperRugby has always produced international level players all the time the only problem was creating the cohesion between them when they were brought into the national team. That's where the coach steps in and makes it happen based on what strategies those guys played in their clubs and molding them around what he wants to be played.

ZeFrenchy · Aug 6, 2011

Thingimubob said:
Nahh bugger them, random Spanish people ftw

I'm watching the Argentine ESPN and they do know their rugby, though you can tell they base their opinions exclusively on test matches and the odd H cup or S15 game. The Eng-Wal was commented by Diego Albanese (former Puma winger, maybe some irish remembe him) and he is very very good.

Beck on topic, most has been said. I'd just like to note Horwill's game, he was by far the best aussie forward (I saw him running, tackling, hitting brekdowns, pilfering...). Him and Ioane were the only ones to play all right IMO.

For the AB's... I used to consider Conrad Smith the best international centre. Now it's officially a man-crush.

wizzdom · Aug 6, 2011

Rhyer said:
30-14, poor game, New Zealand fell apart in the last 30 and Australia were never really in it. For all this talk on the forums about Gear you'd think it was the second coming of Jesus. Where the hell was he? Did absolutely nothing and was definitely the poorest All Black on the field. He is not the player Rico ever was and needs to be dropped, Guildford would have done a better job.

Bwahahaha! dont get me started on guildford... its pretty obvious Gear was a bit stiff cuz he hadnt played an allblack game in awhile.. in saying that he still did his job on offencve and defence... Rico was never as solid as Hosea and his defence was never as good.

And stop this whole Guilford and Jane are better then Gear and Sivi... Sivi was a beast last night and even on a bad day Gear still does his job... im sure youve seen Jane and Guilford have bad games and they usually result in an ABs loss... Gear/Sivi are our top wingers no matter how many times Guilford/Jane dominate a C grade Bokkes team.

But what was up with the knockons and forward passes (from both sides) being missed but the ref... maybe the game they were playing was too fast or the ref jhust one unfit lazy lemon.

lance2010 · Aug 6, 2011

Watching last nights game im starting to feel abit sorry for SBW now getting very little game time.Ma'a has really stepped up since putting on the black jersey.
I was impressed by how dangerous O'Connor looked with ball in hand,he had a night to forget with the boot.
Pat McCabe was no where to be seen i had hoped for a nice 1 on 1 battle with Nonu but it didn't happen.Higgenbottham was a real impact when he came on this guy needs to be in the starting loose trio,can't wait for the next game at Suncorp Aussie are sure to step up.

cardassian · Aug 6, 2011

wizzdom said:
Bwahahaha! dont get me started on guildford... its pretty obvious Gear was a bit stiff cuz he hadnt played an allblack game in awhile.. in saying that he still did his job on offencve and defence... Rico was never as solid as Hosea and his defence was never as good.

And stop this whole Guilford and Jane are better then Gear and Sivi... Sivi was a beast last night and even on a bad day Gear still does his job... im sure youve seen Jane and Guilford have bad games and they usually result in an ABs loss... Gear/Sivi are our top wingers no matter how many times Guilford/Jane dominate a C grade Bokkes team.

But what was up with the knockons and forward passes (from both sides) being missed but the ref... maybe the game they were playing was too fast or the ref jhust one unfit lazy lemon.

bro i'm a gear fan too but we wasn't great last night especially on defence. 0 tackles made and 1 missed tackle is hardly doing his job on d and 9 runs for 50m while ok isn't setting the world alight on attack either. I really think he needs to up his workrate in the next game as Jane is awesome and Guildford looks hungry.

Good point about both teams looking sloppy with many handling errors by both teams. Hopefully the AB's can sort this out before the rwc as we need to be up a gear or two to win it.

big ginger 8 · Aug 6, 2011

Steveskiez7 said:
I swear Rocky Elsom has lost his balls aswell.. he never gets involved in any rucks and now his defense is a liability.

You sure you watched it saw Elsom in plenty of rucks was oiften the support player. Also look at his try won the turnover look at the determination on his face as he ran. He then won the lineout and of course scored the try.

shtove · Aug 6, 2011

Interesting match. Probably should have been closer.

Aus don't have enough time to settle as a team. They have plenty of potential, but will have to wing it for the RWC and hope things turn out OK. I can see Ireland taking them, especially at the lineout.

ABs are favourites, but not by a large margin. Their replacements were mostly improvements, as far as I could tell, especially at loosehead. The scrum and lineout got better in the second half, but they lost on points and Aus could have got a lot closer in the end. The thing that leaves me flat with the ABs is that there's no great creativity outside #10. I wonder if sonny boy in the centre is a serious option next month - he seems to have a much better instinct for the offload than Nonu (no idea about his defence).

Anyway, if the ABs can't win the RWC with Carter and McCaw gliding around the pitch, they'll never win it. Once-in-a-generation brilliance from both, especially in defence today. My favourite McCaw bit was when he turned O'Connor as they hit the floor, and O'Connor laid the ball back on the AB side - very clever.

Horwill had a great match for Aus, and Higginbotham looked interesting.

A few howlers from the ref, mostly in favour of the ABs. And I'd say maybe half the lineout throws were crooked - that won't be tolerated next month, and NH teams will be prepared.

smartcooky · Aug 6, 2011

wizzdom said:
And stop this whole Guilford and Jane are better then Gear and Sivi... Sivi was a beast last night and even on a bad day Gear still does his job...

Another Guildford hater I see.

IMO, all four of these players deserve their places on pure merit. Gear was unlucky last night that the game just didn't run his way. There were not the gaps in the Aussie backline that Sivivatu was able to exploit.

wizzdom said:
im sure youve seen Jane and Guilford have bad games and they usually result in an ABs loss... Gear/Sivi are our top wingers no matter how many times Guilford/Jane dominate a C grade Bokkes team.

Just to set the record straight, Zac Guildford has never played in a losing All Black's side!

And Cory Jane has only been in three All Blacks losing sides

...and I do not recall Jane having a bad game in any of the three defeats.

However, we all know who ****ed up in Hong Kong last year, and thank God he's not in the frame any more.

M

Melhor Time

Bench Player

Aug 6, 2011

#197

Smartcooky!

You must be very concerned now... Yet again the All Blacks are kicking ass and the World Cup is about the happen!

Very familiar... NZ on top and clearly on top with the World Cup coming....

BTW - have a beer ready for me following USA vs Italy in Nelson.

L

Larksea

First XV

TRF Legend

Aug 6, 2011

#198

lynam1104 said:
Was a fairly poor game from all apart form those Oly mentioned. I didn't understand the decion to drop both Jane and Gilford form the 22 after the games thy had last week SBW shouldn't have had the 22 jersey he can only cover 12 so he is useless on the bench IMO.

AB's have a big bunch of outside backs to narrow down for the WC squad, Guildford and Jane weren't dropped as such it was just a case if the AB's coaches needing to see gametime from Sivivatu and Gear. Because obviously you can't tell how a player will go in a big game unless you try him.

Gear is a good player, he destroyed England last year playing for the NZ maori and had a big end of year tour but he's yet to have a good game against Australia in 3 attempts (?). Gear did do more than one good run, watching a replay now after going to the game last night he did have a few nice touches. Also need to consider that he hasn't played in over 6 weeks and he's had a leg injury.

He hasn't performed as well as his Rivals though, some very high standards have been set by the other wingers. Guildford, Jane and Sivi have been good and we are yet to see Dagg, Toeava or Kahui Who are all on injury comeback. Not sure about Dagg but Toeava and Kahui will likely get chances in the last two games.

Last edited: Aug 6, 2011

smartcooky

Referee Coach and Advisor

TRF Legend

Aug 6, 2011

#199

Melhor Time said:
Smartcooky!

You must be very concerned now... Yet again the All Blacks are kicking ass and the World Cup is about the happen!

Very familiar... NZ on top and clearly on top with the World Cup coming....

BTW - have a beer ready for me following USA vs Italy in Nelson.

Not at all worried Paul.

This is exactly what England did in 2003... dominated for 18 months prior to the Cup.

BTW, where's your seat? (We are in the South Stand, Aisle 12.)

There is a place called Club Italia right outside the new "Trafalgar Entrance" to the ground. Might not be a pub though. I'll check it out.

What's you preferred poison?

S

Siva Tau

Academy Player

Aug 7, 2011

#200

The differnce in Super 15 and test football is vast, much more at stake. I honestly can see Cooper making some howlers like he did last night. Its high risk football and last night the AB's defence showed other teams how to combat his threat. Without him on song to set up team attack they rely on some individual briliiance from O'Connor Beale or Ioane. I think Deans face said it all after the match.