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Tri Nations: Springboks - All Blacks @ Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium (20-8-2011, 15:05)

FlukeArtist

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Look Shaggy,

Lets just leave it- this is getting exhausting, and I really can't be bothered.

Your last point sums up both our sides perfectly.

I say the NFL knows how to cater to its audiences because it emphasizes Touchdowns, you counter with "well they would watch it anyway" - and who knows, you might be right, But I tell you one I wouldn't watch it if it was all about field goals (and I do watch NFL)
And I suspect the reason the points structure is as it is in NFL, is to promote touchdowns over field goals.


You have your beliefs and I have mine, and you will never convince me a droppie or a penalty should be worth what they are, sorry.
And likewise i'll probably not convince you either.


All my original point was: is that if you want to grow this game (both globally and locally) to has to be entertaining first and foremost.
And best entertainment is try scoring.

But as Ezequiel pointed out previously, tyeams will take a win on kicks anyday.
And there is a NH and SA mentality of kick to win games (and more power to them - thats what the rules allow for)
All I was saying is this is a poor spectacle and does nothing for the game.

Case in point: the last RWC - a poor showpiece for our game.
Anyone who thinks that tournament was a good advertisement for rugby needs their heads read.

Anyway- thats all I have to say on the matter now.
 
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james5000

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In the last few years scrums have become a joke. I totally agree that something has to be done about scrum infringements.

Taking away scrum penalties IMO is not the answer, it would lead to cheating by teams that are not capable of competing at scrum time.

IDK what can be done about the issue but have some idea's,

They could make scrum rules more universal with less interpretation?
They could train ref's and teach them scrum techniques and specific positioning so they are better able to ref the situation?
They could introduce special scrum referee's, people with real experience about scrum dynamics possibly former front rowers? (Its not that bad an idea it may make the game faster because they might get it right first time!!!)
 
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Shaggy

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Look Shaggy,

Lets just leave it- this is getting exhausting, and I really can't be bothered.

Your last point sums up both our sides perfectly.

I say the NFL knows how to cater to its audiences because it emphasizes Touchdowns, you counter with "well they would watch it anyway" - and who knows, you might be right, But I tell you one I wouldn't watch it if it was all about field goals (and I do watch NFL)
And I suspect the reason the points structure is as it is in NFL, is to promote touchdowns over field goals.


You have your beliefs and I have mine, and you will never convince me a droppie or a penalty should be worth what they are, sorry.
And likewise i'll probably not convince you either.


All my original point was: is that if you want to grow this game (both globally and locally) to has to be entertaining first and foremost.
And best entertainment is try scoring.

But as Ezequiel pointed out previously, tyeams will take a win on kicks anyday.
And there is a NH and SA mentality of kick to win games (and more power to them - thats what the rules allow for)
All I was saying is this is a poor spectacle and does nothing for the game.

Case in point: the last RWC - a poor showpiece for our game.
Anyone who thinks that tournament was a good advertisement for rugby needs their heads read.

Anyway- thats all I have to say on the matter now.

Fair enough ... I respect your stance and opinion
 

TRF_heineken

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With the last couple of posts I think there is another difference needed to be addressed maybe between NZ and Aus vs RSA and Northern Hemisphere which hasn't been pointed out.

from my point of view, especially in South Africa, Rugby is not just about entertainment. it's so much more! it's a culture all on it's own.

when there's games on Saturdays, it becomes a whole day event, getting your mates, driving down to the stadium, having a braai before hand, some beers, Leon Schuster music playing out of the car speakers, having a good time, and that can happen 5 hours before a match.

by changing points or laws in rugby, doesn't make a big difference to most fans, as they live for the culture of rugby.
 

Black Heart

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With the last couple of posts I think there is another difference needed to be addressed maybe between NZ and Aus vs RSA and Northern Hemisphere which hasn't been pointed out.

from my point of view, especially in South Africa, Rugby is not just about entertainment. it's so much more! it's a culture all on it's own.

when there's games on Saturdays, it becomes a whole day event, getting your mates, driving down to the stadium, having a braai before hand, some beers, Leon Schuster music playing out of the car speakers, having a good time, and that can happen 5 hours before a match.

by changing points or laws in rugby, doesn't make a big difference to most fans, as they live for the culture of rugby.

How does that differ from New Zealand?
 

TRF_stormer2010

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With the last couple of posts I think there is another difference needed to be addressed maybe between NZ and Aus vs RSA and Northern Hemisphere which hasn't been pointed out.

from my point of view, especially in South Africa, Rugby is not just about entertainment. it's so much more! it's a culture all on it's own.

when there's games on Saturdays, it becomes a whole day event, getting your mates, driving down to the stadium, having a braai before hand, some beers, Leon Schuster music playing out of the car speakers, having a good time, and that can happen 5 hours before a match.

by changing points or laws in rugby, doesn't make a big difference to most fans, as they live for the culture of rugby.

It's not unheard of to pitch 8 or 9 hours beforehand at Newlands if you want a good spot.




I still think the basics and variety of the game is great. The things that kill it as a spectacle is mostly down to confusion and inconsistency;

Clearer and/or simpler rules and thus more consistent rulings at particularly scrum and breakdown. Clear that up and you'll have newer fans getting into the game easier (simpler rules), a fairer and thus more enjoyable game as well as quicker ball allowing for more attractive rugby with less stoppages/ better flow. Changing points, particularly lessening the points for penalties, will only cause more negative play and thus more penalties, stopages, kill the quick ball. Remember we saw the fastest rugby in 2010 when the refs were the harshest on offences at the breakdown. Allow teams to get quality ball and even SA teams like the Bulls will run (they did score the most tries in 2010 and by running not kicking).

To trick would be to create a simpler set of rules at scrum and breakdown that allow for fair and quick ball (and allow the ref to be consistent) while not getting rid of the contest at these phases of play.
 
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TRF_heineken

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How does that differ from New Zealand?

if you read the last couple of posts it looks like you guys just want entertainment... I'm not saying that you don't have a rugby culture, it just looks like its not a priority anymore...
 

Black Heart

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if you read the last couple of posts it looks like you guys just want entertainment... I'm not saying that you don't have a rugby culture, it just looks like its not a priority anymore...

To say the New Zealand public wants entertainment is very true. After all the All Blacks have been the most entertaining side in rugby for decades and it's that reason why we have always had such a high expectation to see them play well. But to say that it's "only" about entertainment is far from the truth. If anything it's that expectation for entertaining rugby that further enforces the priority of the All Blacks in our culture, simply because they very rarely play boring rugby (or lose for that matter)

Sports like Rugby League have certainly taken a lift since the Kiwis won the World Cup and soccer has had a bit of a boost since the Fifa WC but everyone still holds the All Blacks in high standing regardless.
 

ranger

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if you read the last couple of posts it looks like you guys just want entertainment... I'm not saying that you don't have a rugby culture, it just looks like its not a priority anymore...

You are on a roll this week
 

stormers666

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Rewatched the game last night...

...was pleased to see a near 'try saving tackle' from Pierre Spies on Jimmy Cowan. Heartening when taking his D concerns into consideration. he had a good game, and if that GI Joe specimen can reach his potential, there's big ****!

It also looked like the Boks were still a bit rusty around the attacking game, as opposed to... well, ****! There were a few attempts at getting things going, and some good 'nearly' moments, but the AB defense was too good when combined with the lack of smoothness/decisiveness on attack.

Hougaard = animal. nuff said.

Defense was great from a scramble/try saving perspective. Defense was a bit rubbish from a line break/first time tackle perspective.

Our front row were great, no matter who was there. They kept the structure and dominated. Let us not forget it was weakend AB scrum, though...

on the Bissie sub... it looked more like pure dissapointment at being taken off and maybe even that there hadn't been any tries while he was on.

Morné Steyn... what a conundrum. he had a WAY better game, with some good distribution, but was caught too deep at the wrong times and forced to kick as a result, when we had some good posession that could have been worked out. perfect boot, but no suprises there! I think the combo of him at 10 and Lambie at 15 with some smart interchanging could be spot on, but I also want to see Frans steyn reach his potential so I'm torn...

Braanabana was a liiitle over eager, but I have a feeling that 'stride' and 'hitting' may meet with this man at the RWC11...

FdP... shame... his kicking game was so off. lets hope he gets it right soon! also some dropped catches, but not a total shocker.

Brussouw = deserved MOTM.

Bakkies and Vic were great, Danie not so much.

Alberts was a bit quiet.

Ashley had some good and some bad.

Really enjoyed our legendary centres, and have feeling they're really starting to warm up...

JPP... so so...

I'm just happy noone really sucked. As a team building up, I expect great things... Bring on the All Blacks come the semis!!

Ramble done.

Shot.

-666-

\m/:angry:\m/
 

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