Two or more full referees

[welshglory]

It has been brought up a lot by past players, coaches, fans, referees that having at least two full referees on the pitch might help with the problem areas of the scrum and breakdown in particular.

They trialled two refs in the 2013 (South African) Varsity Cup http://www.sarugby.com/news.cfm?newsid=24625, a competition which is used a lot for law trials by SARU and the IRB. However i can't find any articles or even statements saying how it went unsurprisingly, rugby journalists don't seem to be very good at doing this and/or unions aren't very corporative.

I believe that the main problem rugby union has as a spectator sport is the murkiness of the laws and officiating in the scrums and breakdown at pro level. Let's be clear at all levels below pro level the sport is absolutely fine.

The only way to solve this may be to go for 2 refs or even more on the actual field. Maybe look at American/NFL football for inspiration. Where they have up to 7 officials on the field at one time! For a game with 11 players! On a pitch which is half the size of a rugby one!

It's pretty clear that union is too complicated and too crowded a sport to be officiated by just one human. You may say that this is not the tradition, we need to align with the grassroots blah blah blah etc... all the purist stuff but i believe some innovation is needed in this sport at the pro level in particular where we need it to be an attractive spectator sport.

Let's be honest the assistant/touch referee system isn't working, by and large they are useless. With the added responsibility most of the time they are indifferent when the ref asks for their input and if they do have something to say the head ref will go to the TMO anyways, and that's just with looking at the touch line most of the time. At grassroots you could keep the touch judges but at the pro level going for more refs on the field with added responsibility and/or improvement in technology will eliminated their usefulness.

So my idea would be this:

In open play have a ref on either side of the teams to police the breakdowns, and then two on the inside of the touch lines on each side to help.
In scrums obviously one on each side of the scrum and then the other two on the inside of the touchlines.

Having a head referee might be an idea though. Who will make the main decisions and use the others for assistance.

What do you all think?

 

[goodNumber10]

would that not lead to inconsistency within the game? Two refs, two different interpretations - i mean look at the TMO protocol and what a mess that is.

 

[welshglory]

Maybe, at the same time it could change the fabric of rugby as we know it!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

it'll work if there are clear boundaries around how it should work. what I mean by that is each ref polices their own half, when the ball is in the other half, the second ref looks for offside players advancing, obstructions etc. i'm not sure exactly as long as it's clear cut and you don't have any grey areas where both refs are policing the same breakdown and one blows a penalty for hands in the ruck while the other blows the same ruck penalty for holding on.

 

[Guilty]

This is a great idea and personally I would be really interested in seeimg the results of the trial... As a big NFL fan it is abundantly clear American Football has a much better officiating system than we do. Rugby League even seems to be far above Union from a consistency perspective. There are a couple of things rugby could benefit from looking at adopting:

You've covered off the multiple referees point really well but what about challenge flags or specifically giving the coaches the ability to challenge a set amouny of rulings per half? Let's face it. Referees make mistakes often and sometimes in pivotal moments of the game. The ability to let coaches challenge say once per half could be great and I do not think would slow the have down too much.

Another one to consider is automatic review of key plays by the TMO during the dying stages of the game - in our case the last 5 minutes. Probably a less obvious call but worth taking a look at...

 

[KeithB]

In theory I think it's a good idea, it is very difficult for one ref to see everything that's happening. However, like IA said, it would only work with a clear set of rules, which is why I said it's a good idea in theory because in reality I think it would be really difficult to implement without running the risk of confusion and disagreements on particular calls.

 

[welshglory]

Thread update

I remember starting this thread, oh how time flies...

Interestingly enough in this year's ITM/Mitre Cup they will be trialling two referees.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...s-in-national-provincial-championship-in-2016

AT A GLANCE
Proposed World Rugby law changes:

1. Two on-field referees
2. Removal of the 'gate' entry at the breakdown
3. Tackler and arriving players can enter from midpoint of breakdown as long as they come from an onside position
4. Tackler no longer has 360 degree rights to the ball
5. Offside lines one metre behind hindmost foot at breakdown

Key summary:

• The second on-field official will mainly be used to rule on a new offside line that will be moved one metre back from a redefined ruck, where the confusing "gate" will be ditched and the rights of the tackler reduced.
• It remains unclear exactly what duties each of the on-field referees would have, but is assumed the secondary official would primarily be charged with policing the offside. In league there is a "lead ref" who does the bulk of officiating from the defensive side, though in international matches there is still only one on-field official.

Explaining how it was used in the SA Varsity Cup
http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/dual-ref-systems-been-successful

HOW THE DUAL-REFEREE SYSTEM WORKS:

• Division of field
  
  • Each referee will be the engaged ref in their own half of the field, which isn't divided by the halfway line, but rather an imaginary line from post to post, parallel to the sidelines.
    
• Scrums
  
  • Engaged referee: Positioned normally.
    
  • Disengaged referee: On the other side of the scrum, watching for errors on the other side of the front row and policing the offside line.
• Lineouts
  
  • Engaged referee: Will set up the lineout and take up position in front of the linout. Will adjudicate upon all the along- and across-the-line infringements.
    
  • Disengaged referee: Will stand at the back on the line of touch and will adjudicate on the skew throw in the lineout. Will also manage the offside line of the backline.
    
• Tackle/ruck/maul
  
  • Engaged referee: Will assume the same procedure as when only one ref is on the field but positioned so the phases are between the two referees. If he needs to move around the ruck or maul, he will return to a position where he can see the other referee as soon as possible. He will manage the tackle/ruck/maul and will usually take up a position on the touchline so he faces the trailing ref.
    
  • Disengaged referee: Will sweep and manage the offsides of pillars and backlines. He can, however, also adjudicate on knock-ons or foul play where the leading ref was unsighted.
    
• General play
  
  • Engaged referee: Will be around the ball in his primary area.
    
  • Disengaged referee: Adjudicates play if it moves into his primary area. He tries to adjudicate from a wider angle by not going too far into the leading referee’s primary area.

The most important thing for me is that it will become a deterrent to infringing sides at the ruck and scrum. Hopefully this will lead to a cleaner game and less cynical play. I get the sense that the NH will be reluctant though, we do tend to be stubbornly conservative in the name of tradition.

Also a piece posted back in 2003! from the ARU by a Chandra Senerviratne. Slightly different system:
ttp://www.aru.com.au/Portals/18/Files/Refereeing/level3papers/Major_Project_Chandra_Senerviratne.pdf

Now to fix the rolling maul's, yellow card and sin bin system. We do not need to mess with the scoring!!!!