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The Clubhouse Bar
UK General Election called May 6th
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<blockquote data-quote="Prestwick" data-source="post: 310178" data-attributes="member: 13794"><p>I wouldn't say its fairer, the result of having STV in Ulster has meant that sectarian parties have essentially confirmed their stranglehold on politics North of the border with a very cushy power sharing agreement. Neither now wants to rock the boat because the pork from Dublin, Westminister and Brussels is simply too good to pass up. Parties like the SDLP and the Alliance are now sidelined and barely have a say. I'd say therefore that PR has amplified the divisions rather than emphasised different cultures.</p><p></p><p>Further examples of PR being unfair can be seen in Israel. You've had right wing governments, you've had left wing governments and you've had center ground governments but all have been hamstrung by the system of PR that allows tiny extremist parties to get seats in the Knesset. No party has a majority big enough to govern even as a minority government so they have to get the support of parties who for example would like Israel to re-invade the Sinai or parties that want to ban motorway construction if it passes nearby ancient Jewish graveyards. And these small parties demand decent Ministries which is why the current Minister for Housing in Israel is a member of an extremist far right party. </p><p></p><p>The problem is that people fundamentally misunderstand the whole idea of politics both domestic and international. We all want people to work together, we hate "punch and judy politics" and people stitching everyone else up for self gain. We apparently hate the way that the House of Commons is designed in the "adversarial" style where the government and opposition face off from opposite sides and we'd prefer to see everyone in harmony and happiness in these nice and delightful horse-shoe debating chamber designs we see at the Scottish Parliament and in the European Parliament. We want everyone to have their say and everyone to work together and be "fully involved."</p><p></p><p>On the international stage we want to see everyone working together to make poverty history, to solve HIV/AIDS and global warming and make war a thing of the past. We'd like to think that we're all "European" than Irish, British or French and that in the EU we're all working together towards a happy future.</p><p></p><p>So when people talk about PR, they talk about it because they feel that somehow magically everyone will pull together and work for the common good and everything will be fairer and nicer and the sun will always shine and so on.</p><p></p><p>The problem is all of that is a sham. Its never happened and it never will happen. Ever. </p><p></p><p>Politics is dog eat dog. Its about stabbing each other in the back. Its about protecting your own. Its about fighting <em>your</em> corner. Its about bitter argument and compromising through gritted teeth with sworn oaths for vengeance. Its about swapping sides and allegiances if given a better offer. </p><p></p><p>This is the reality. In our home leigslatures its every man for themselves and in the EU its every country for themselves. If there is co-operation its France & Germany working together to screw everyone else over and the rest of the Eurozone working together to cut Greece loose. </p><p></p><p>PR is part of a utopian pipe dream that will never be acheived and as a result only exacerbates division, infighting, vested interests, marginalisation and betrayal. DUP/Sinn Fein have betrayed Ulster because they've carved the place up for themselves. Belgium is on the verge of disintegration due to bitter division and stalemate caused by PR, the Arab-Israeli conflict has arguably been prolonged by the inability of successive Israeli Prime Ministers (Olmert, Sharon, Barak & Peres) to form strong governments thanks to PR. </p><p></p><p>And thats why I prefer First Past The Post. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Prestwick, post: 310178, member: 13794"] I wouldn't say its fairer, the result of having STV in Ulster has meant that sectarian parties have essentially confirmed their stranglehold on politics North of the border with a very cushy power sharing agreement. Neither now wants to rock the boat because the pork from Dublin, Westminister and Brussels is simply too good to pass up. Parties like the SDLP and the Alliance are now sidelined and barely have a say. I'd say therefore that PR has amplified the divisions rather than emphasised different cultures. Further examples of PR being unfair can be seen in Israel. You've had right wing governments, you've had left wing governments and you've had center ground governments but all have been hamstrung by the system of PR that allows tiny extremist parties to get seats in the Knesset. No party has a majority big enough to govern even as a minority government so they have to get the support of parties who for example would like Israel to re-invade the Sinai or parties that want to ban motorway construction if it passes nearby ancient Jewish graveyards. And these small parties demand decent Ministries which is why the current Minister for Housing in Israel is a member of an extremist far right party. The problem is that people fundamentally misunderstand the whole idea of politics both domestic and international. We all want people to work together, we hate "punch and judy politics" and people stitching everyone else up for self gain. We apparently hate the way that the House of Commons is designed in the "adversarial" style where the government and opposition face off from opposite sides and we'd prefer to see everyone in harmony and happiness in these nice and delightful horse-shoe debating chamber designs we see at the Scottish Parliament and in the European Parliament. We want everyone to have their say and everyone to work together and be "fully involved." On the international stage we want to see everyone working together to make poverty history, to solve HIV/AIDS and global warming and make war a thing of the past. We'd like to think that we're all "European" than Irish, British or French and that in the EU we're all working together towards a happy future. So when people talk about PR, they talk about it because they feel that somehow magically everyone will pull together and work for the common good and everything will be fairer and nicer and the sun will always shine and so on. The problem is all of that is a sham. Its never happened and it never will happen. Ever. Politics is dog eat dog. Its about stabbing each other in the back. Its about protecting your own. Its about fighting [I]your[/I] corner. Its about bitter argument and compromising through gritted teeth with sworn oaths for vengeance. Its about swapping sides and allegiances if given a better offer. This is the reality. In our home leigslatures its every man for themselves and in the EU its every country for themselves. If there is co-operation its France & Germany working together to screw everyone else over and the rest of the Eurozone working together to cut Greece loose. PR is part of a utopian pipe dream that will never be acheived and as a result only exacerbates division, infighting, vested interests, marginalisation and betrayal. DUP/Sinn Fein have betrayed Ulster because they've carved the place up for themselves. Belgium is on the verge of disintegration due to bitter division and stalemate caused by PR, the Arab-Israeli conflict has arguably been prolonged by the inability of successive Israeli Prime Ministers (Olmert, Sharon, Barak & Peres) to form strong governments thanks to PR. And thats why I prefer First Past The Post. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. [/QUOTE]
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UK General Election called May 6th
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