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United States of America: State of Rugby

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O'Rothlain

Guest
Now that we have a growing number of "Yanks" on the board, I thought it was time to make an honest assesment of the State of Rugby in America. Let's hear you opinions on your club, your rival clubs, which cities have the best rugby, what you think about the USA Eagles and our current development program.
 
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DC

Guest
Best rugby by far is the Midwest and the West.. Midwest and Western teams annually compete at the High School championships.

The development program is OK. It is good to see they are emphasizing more youth teams, BUT it is very had to get into them (from first hand experience) because the country is just so big and it is hard to get scouted enough to make the team. Once college rolls around it gets easier but from a high school standpoint unless you are on a good team you will most likely not be invited to try out for the youth teams (even if you are a great great player, if you dont play on a good team you will never get scouted)
 
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snoopy snoopy dog dog

Guest
Now that we have a growing number of "Yanks" on the board, I thought it was time to make an honest assesment of the State of Rugby in America. Let's hear you opinions on your club, your rival clubs, which cities have the best rugby, what you think about the USA Eagles and our current development program.[/b]
I don't know if this is necessarily what you're looking for but I thought this was quite interesting when I read it a couple of days back:
USA Rugby has announced that it plans on holding eight test matches in 2008 and 12 in 2009. The US plans on attending the Churchill Cup throughout June, hosting Irish provincial side Munster and a club from the UK in August, as well as playing three games in November, which have yet to be confirmed. In the works is the expansion of the NA4 to eight representative teams (four from the US and Canada) in 2009 and then adding two teams from Argentina shortly thereafter. There was also talk of establishing a Five Nations America's tournament between the USA, Canada, Chile, Uruguay and Argentina in the near future.

[/b]
Link:Melville optimistic about future

As we saw in the World Cup, there is talent in the USA if it's given the right coaching and enough game time together. Expanding the international schedule and creating a new higher quality club tournament can only be of benefit.
 
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Steve-o

Guest
Link:Melville optimistic about future

As we saw in the World Cup, there is talent in the USA if it's given the right coaching and enough game time together. Expanding the international schedule and creating a new higher quality club tournament can only be of benefit.

[/b]



USA did show some talent in this years' WC but a worrying factor is that something like only 2 of the starting 15 were born in the USA. Would be great to see more home grown talent. Maybe next generation if these plans for USA rugby go through
 
O

O'Rothlain

Guest
The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
I think we're heading in the right direction. Even though a lot of these players are foreign born, they do play their rugby here...this adds greatly to the wealth of knowledge at their home clubs. The Rugby Super League is great, but you can see a difference between the clubs with money and those without. When I lived in San Diego, I got to train some with OMBAC...they have money, great coaching and great facilities. I then played with the Sain Louis Bombers. We had a great coach, but struggled with facilities. OMBAC had international position coaches, while STL had coaches who had grown up in the program. I am not knocking our coaches, they are all great, but they do it for free after their full time jobs.
 
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SaintsFan_Webby

Guest
The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain's top players during the amateur era. I'm not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.
 
O

O'Rothlain

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain's top players during the amateur era. I'm not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.
[/b][/quote]
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70's...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.
 
B

Bullitt

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> The problem we face is amateurism. It would be interesting to see some of our top clubs take on some of the top UK and Irish amateur club teams.
[/b]

I still think US sides might struggle against the top amateur sides in the UK to be honest. A lot of them have massive heritage from when rugby was entirely amateur.

The likes of Manchester, Otley, Blackheath, Redruth, Preston Grasshoppers, Fylde, London Scottish, Rosslyn Park, Cardiff, Neath, Pontypridd, Currie, Melrose, Heriots...the list is huge. These were the breeding grounds for many of Britain's top players during the amateur era. I'm not if every single one of those is fully amateur (some may be semi-pro), but I imagine they would be able to put out sides that a country which is only just starting to embrace rugby fully could find the going tough against.

In 15-20 years of course, once more money has been ploughed into the US game, I would expect things to change.
[/b][/quote]
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70's...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.
[/b][/quote]

At best? Those are the best clubs!
 
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shtove

Guest
<div class='quotemain'>
I said it would be "interesting." It would surely show us where we are. You definitely have heritage on your side. A really old club in the US would be one started in the 1960-70's...haha. At best a lot of clubs are still drinking socials that engage in rugby.
[/b]

At best? Those are the best clubs!
[/b][/quote]

Yip ... Hic!

Is there much schools rugby in the US? That's the Irish tradition, and it's very strong - blows your mind (and your voice, when you're cheering your team) and nails you for life.

Maybe the best comparison for US rugby is Australia - very weak until the late seventies, and then they became dominant with some of the best players of all time. But the Aussies are incredibly fcukin competitive and love to stuff it to the English/SA/NZ. That kind of national rivalry is a bit below the US, so maybe it wouldn't fire the public and make them empty their wallets.

I guess the US needs a bogey man they can compete against year in, year out. Now, who would that be? Or should US rugby give up on the Eagles and go with regions, like the MidWest/New England/Pacific states? Or even individual states?

In rugby, Ireland uses a provincial system (4) supported by tiny clubs - but that feeds upward in to a national team. In All Ireland competitions in gaelic games there is no national team (leaving the Croke Park punch ups with the Aussies aside) and the system is based on the counties (32) supported by tiny clubs. Lots of passion there.

Anyway - Merry Christmas, a chara!
 
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Brodizzle

Guest
I guess the US needs a bogey man they can compete against year in, year out. Now, who would that be?
[/b]
Firepower (the Forces sponsor) have opened up a rugby academy in Russia, there's your bogey man for you...
 
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scuubasteve

Guest
All looks promising for the future!

I still feel they should tote the 7's cart a little more.

Watching the US team compete very well over the weekend (in the George leg of the IRB 7's) along with nations like Kenya (who the US lost 2 in the plate final!) shows that it doesn't take as much money or time for smaller nations to foot it with the big guys in this version of the game.

Rugby 7's encompasses most of what is good about the 15man version. It is much faster and simpler than the full version making it the perfect tool to penetrate the market and gain awareness for the rugby 'brand'. Spreading the word on the game and increasing participation in some form is the simple way to boost US rugby fortunes.

I think if they pushed 7's harder then the US game could grow faster.

This is currently the easiest way for US based players to compete professionally against other world class professional players.

Guys like Todd Clever and 19 year old Thretton Palamo look to be very impressive athletes who will benefit both physically and mentally from taking part in the 7's tournament, more so than if they were to play club rugby. Giving more kids a taste for the game would be easier if served on a more simplistic platform.

On a side note, it's great (generally and from a US rugby growth perspective) to see the flying winger Takudza Ngwenya get a pro contract. He's now signed with French Top14 side Biarritz (otherwise he was to tour with the 7's team)
 
O

O'Rothlain

Guest
No...Russia is so 1980 (unfortunately).
The IRB need to form some sort of Al Quada (sp) Rugby Club.

Now, we'll have a reason to boost rugby!!!
 
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shtove

Guest
No...Russia is so 1980 (unfortunately).
The IRB need to form some sort of Al Quada (sp) Rugby Club.

Now, we'll have a reason to boost rugby!!!
[/b]



But wouldn't George W just declare victory - whatever the result - and then destroy all video evidence?
 
D

dundeesmiffy

Guest
i was wondering if rugby was big in Boston?
seeing as it has a large scottish and irish contingent?
 
P

Prestwick

Guest
All looks promising for the future!

I still feel they should tote the 7's cart a little more.

Watching the US team compete very well over the weekend (in the George leg of the IRB 7's) along with nations like Kenya (who the US lost 2 in the plate final!) shows that it doesn't take as much money or time for smaller nations to foot it with the big guys in this version of the game.

Rugby 7's encompasses most of what is good about the 15man version. It is much faster and simpler than the full version making it the perfect tool to penetrate the market and gain awareness for the rugby 'brand'. Spreading the word on the game and increasing participation in some form is the simple way to boost US rugby fortunes.

I think if they pushed 7's harder then the US game could grow faster.

This is currently the easiest way for US based players to compete professionally against other world class professional players.

Guys like Todd Clever and 19 year old Thretton Palamo look to be very impressive athletes who will benefit both physically and mentally from taking part in the 7's tournament, more so than if they were to play club rugby. Giving more kids a taste for the game would be easier if served on a more simplistic platform.

On a side note, it's great (generally and from a US rugby growth perspective) to see the flying winger Takudza Ngwenya get a pro contract. He's now signed with French Top14 side Biarritz (otherwise he was to tour with the 7's team) [/b]

I agree, the USA have recruited wisely in terms of administrators with guys like Nigel Melville and other guys like the bloke who negotiated the Adidas deal for New Zealand.

And look on the bright side, the USA are still olympic champs...but kind of like how Kurt Angle is still "olympic champ" of Wrestling..
 
C

Caledfwlch

Guest
The USA 7s team came down last month for the SCC 7s. Nothing special just mundane rugby. That didnt work.
 
H

Hamster

Guest
Got potential, I reckon Canada has more potential. Would be easier to market and target players there I reckon. Improving slighty, but they'll never beat the NFL market... Hard to talk about it, just they wont be a powerhouse team for a long time. Very long time lol. Besides, if NFL didnt exist just imagine what the Yanks would have made of rugby if they kept it lol.
 
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Steve-o

Guest
I disagree. USA rugby has come along way since the beginning of the professional era. And they've had the better of thier neighbours, Canada, in recent years. The sheer size of the US makes them high up on my future potential list. But like you said, it'll take awhile. Americans need to buy an atlas and see that there's a world outside thier 'world'.

And about that creating a rivalry with another nation thing, I think England or Argentina will be their rivals one day. BTW which country do the US have the longest rugby history with?
 
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