USA news & politics

[dirty harry]

Yo @dirty harry, don't respond to @Ragey Erasmus.

I blocked him months ago because it's very clear he 1.) Does not know the first thing about America. 2.) Is too stupid to realize he doesn't understand America.

At least @Welsh Exile has a basic understanding of America and how Americans think.

Nah, hes no worse than me, we are probably pretty similar but are coming at issues from different angles...

I couldn't block someone whonputs in that much effort, thats deserving of respond and respect alone!

That said I wouldnt block anyone anyway, being a free speech advocate I want to see opinions i disagree with

 

[ChicagoKid]

Trump managing the narrative you said which I agree was important.

Look, if you said something like "I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons as to why Trump won, ranging from poor economic outcomes for people who felt they've been left behind, a growing sense amongst people that the establishment has abandoned them, the media, Trumps ability to manage and control a narrative, Trumps own personal charisma and his engagement with social media and poor democratic strategy decisions as well as candidates" then I could 100% get on board with that but your framing it in a way that while you accept are are lots of reasons they're minimal and really it comes down to people calling Trump bad names.

Let’s shift gears…

You have young children like me. Are you worried about their future in the UK?

Are you worried they might relocate elsewhere once they graduate?

 

[dirty harry]

Trump managing the narrative you said which I agree was important.

Look, if you said something like "I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons as to why Trump won, ranging from poor economic outcomes for people who felt they've been left behind, a growing sense amongst people that the establishment has abandoned them, the media, Trumps ability to manage and control a narrative, Trumps own personal charisma and his engagement with social media and poor democratic strategy decisions as well as candidates" then I could 100% get on board with that but your framing it in a way that while you accept are are lots of reasons they're minimal and really it comes down to people calling Trump bad names.

Made I've made every one of these arguments, you've denied Trump is smart enough to run a complex social media strategy, you've claimed the economy was an Obama era policy enjoyed by Trump, the anti establishment stuff is my whole shtick, and I've slaughtered Dem candidates and strategy hahaa (you / everyone on this thread, it all amalgamates into 1, which is the point im making re Trump).

Your entire paragraph there is what im talking about.

Democrat strategy has lost over and over (except for the perfect decision to hide Biden away in a bunker), and yet, here we are arguing that Democrat strategy is valid.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Let's shift gears…

You have young children like me. Are you worried about their future in the UK?

Are you worried they might relocate elsewhere once they graduate?

Unmmm, I would have to think about that to give you a genuine answer. It's not something I've thought about to be honest.

My gut say, yeah I am worried about their future but I think most parents in any period of history have probably worried for their kids future. I think my worries mainly tied into what the world will look like when my kids are older and not neccisarily focussing on just the UK

I'm also a bit different as I have 1 brother and 1 sister who have 3 sons between them and all of them live in the states and I wouldn't be surprised if one of my kids moves abroad just because we have links there.

I'm not worried about them moving through, as long as they're happy and doing it for the right reasons. I take you point thigh, if the future of the UK is so bleak that my kids will have to leave to find a better life then that is not good but not something I worry about really.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Made I've made every one of these arguments, you've denied Trump is smart enough to run a complex social media strategy, you've claimed the economy was an Obama era policy enjoyed by Trump, the anti establishment stuff is my whole shtick, and I've slaughtered Dem candidates and strategy hahaa (you / everyone on this thread, it all amalgamates into 1, which is the point im making re Trump).

Your entire paragraph there is what im talking about.

Democrat strategy has lost over and over (except for the perfect decision to hide Biden away in a bunker), and yet, here we are arguing that Democrat strategy is valid.

Ok but what I'm taking about has little to do with "Dems calling Trump bad names"
It's much more complex and nuanced that that as is the way with anything sociological/political.

Ok, so at least we can agree that the reasons Trump won are multi faceted and have a lot more to do with right wing media, Trumps ability to control said media and the narrative in general, sustained poor economic conditions and a feeling amongst many Americans (as in UK) that they have been shafted by the establishment.

By the way Trump is too stupid to do this all by himself but I'll tell you who isn't stupid at all, Bannon.

 

[dirty harry]

Unmmm, I would have to think about that to give you a genuine answer. It's not something I've thought about to be honest.

My gut say, yeah I am worried about their future but I think most parents in any period of history have probably worried for their kids future. I think my worries mainly tied into what the world will look like when my kids are older and not neccisarily focussing on just the UK

I'm also a bit different as I have 1 brother and 1 sister who have 3 sons between them and all of them live in the states and I wouldn't be surprised if one of my kids moves abroad just because we have links there.

I'm not worried about them moving through, as long as they're happy and doing it for the right reasons. I take you point thigh, if the future of the UK is so bleak that my kids will have to leave to find a better life then that is not good but not something I worry about really.

2 young (1 very very) daughters...

Ive wanted out for a few years, theres only so much UK weather you can take after you've travelled and seen actual blue sky and water, green fields, white snow, and dark shade... my missus has refused mostly because she isnt a risk taker, but the more she works in the community, recent events of threats to life and SA, and some social issues shes witnessing she wants us to move back to Bevaria, so my kids might not get the chance to be able to leave lol.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Unmmm, I would have to think about that to give you a genuine answer. It's not something I've thought about to be honest.

My gut say, yeah I am worried about their future but I think most parents in any period of history have probably worried for their kids future. I think my worries mainly tied into what the world will look like when my kids are older and not neccisarily focussing on just the UK

I'm also a bit different as I have 1 brother and 1 sister who have 3 sons between them and all of them live in the states and I wouldn't be surprised if one of my kids moves abroad just because we have links there.

I'm not worried about them moving through, as long as they're happy and doing it for the right reasons. I take you point thigh, if the future of the UK is so bleak that my kids will have to leave to find a better life then that is not good but not something I worry about really.

Where do your siblings live? If you or @dirty harry need a sponsor, I can vote in favor.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Where do your siblings live? If you or @dirty harry need a sponsor, I can vote in favor.

Sister just moved out to Chicago with her 2 boys and my brother moved from NYC to Pittsburgh about 2 years ago or so.

 

[dirty harry]

Ok but what I'm taking about has little to do with "Dems calling Trump bad names"
It's much more complex and nuanced that that as is the way with anything sociological/political.

Ok, so at least we can agree that the reasons Trump won are multi faceted and have a lot more to do with right wing media, Trumps ability to control said media and the narrative in general, sustained poor economic conditions and a feeling amongst many Americans (as in UK) that they have been shafted by the establishment.

By the way Trump is too stupid to do this all by himself but I'll tell you who isn't stupid at all, Bannon.

I cant agree there is a right wing media outside of one Fox news lol, who's he controlling? Dems are complaining about the right wing online space currently, but the biggest people theyre talking about are Democrats pushed away by their actions.

He controls the Dems and establishment narratives beautifully, he mocks some, attacks some, but ultimately he frames himself as in between the establishment and the people.

 

[ChicagoKid]

2 young (1 very very) daughters...

Ive wanted out for a few years, theres only so much UK weather you can take after you've travelled and seen actual blue sky and water, green fields, white snow, and dark shade... my missus has refused mostly because she isnt a risk taker, but the more she works in the community, recent events of threats to life and SA, and some social issues shes witnessing she wants us to move back to Bevaria, so my kids might not get the chance to be able to leave lol.

I love Chicago. Both our families live in Illinois. It makes holidays a breeze because we don’t have to fly/drive insane distances.

But man, we have some idiotic people running our state.

My wife’s family is originally from California and if that state could ever fix itself, I’d be out there in a New York minute.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Sister just moved out to Chicago with her 2 boys and my brother moved from NYC to Pittsburgh about 2 years ago or so.

Pittsburgh is very underrated. Beautiful part of the country.

 

[dirty harry]

Where do your siblings live? If you or @dirty harry need a sponsor, I can vote in favor.

Not for me, i love the states, travel there regularly, but with health care and education its just not a real option (daughter has severe and life long medical condition).

My dream would be sat on the porch shooting vermin on my Ranch in deep Texas lol. However, i dont hate a bit of Austrian and Italian skiing, not a bad 2nd best

 

[ChicagoKid]

Not for me, i love the states, travel there regularly, but with health care and education its just not a real option (daughter has severe and life long medical condition).

My dream would be sat on the porch shooting vermin on my Ranch in deep Texas lol. However, i dont hate a bit of Austrian and Italian skiing, not a bad 2nd best

My company offers global relocation up to 4 years in Switzerland, Germany and a few other places.

But my wife has a sterling career and it wouldn’t be worth it.

However, living in Munich would be absolutely class. I love skiing, hiking, and drinking beer; talk about a good fit.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I cant agree there is a right wing media outside of one Fox news lol, who's he controlling? Dems are complaining about the right wing online space currently, but the biggest people theyre talking about are Democrats pushed away by their actions.

He controls the Dems and establishment narratives beautifully, he mocks some, attacks some, but ultimately he frames himself as in between the establishment and the people.

Well Fox News is pretty big. But you've got NEWSMAX, The national Review and the WSJ which understandly leans right. But you know the name of the game isn't mainstream now. That's all fake news bro. It's all about the online presence and they are amazing at how in step they are with everything Trump says and does. It's actually quite impressive. A lot of them are also sadly in lock step with Russia as well. lol.

 

[dirty harry]

My company offers global relocation up to 4 years in Switzerland, Germany and a few other places.

But my wife has a sterling career and it wouldn't be worth it.

However, living in Munich would be absolutely class. I love skiing, hiking, and drinking beer; talk about a good fit.

Ye, it would be an absolute playground if it wasnt for all those pesky Germans...

Octoberfest is only fun because of the tourists.

 

[dirty harry]

Well Fox News is pretty big. But you've got NEWSMAX, The national Review and the WSJ which understandly leans right. But you know the name of the game isn't mainstream now. That's all fake news bro. It's all about the online presence and they are amazing at how in step they are with everything Trump says and does. It's actually quite impressive. A lot of them are also sadly in lock step with Russia as well. lol.

Its interesting, there are 2 prevailing thoughts..

1. Russia employ an army if boys and propagandist content that promote Trump at all times.

2. Social media is the last bastion of free will, and common sense has pushed a lot of Democrats away from the left, who have been swallowed up by the right.

Both arguments have merits, but I think theres only so much Russian bots can do in an eco system that big, and well the numbers of evidenced Russian interference first time round turned out to be miniscule compared to what was being stated.

I am one for a conspiracy theory, so im all in on Russian collusion, I just think it would be pretty easy to evidence and the story would have blown up. I also think the Russian boogeyman has been over used.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Its interesting, there are 2 prevailing thoughts..

1. Russia employ an army if boys and propagandist content that promote Trump at all times.

2. Social media is the last bastion of free will, and common sense has pushed a lot of Democrats away from the left, who have been swallowed up by the right.

Both arguments have merits, but I think theres only so much Russian bots can do in an eco system that big, and well the numbers of evidenced Russian interference first time round turned out to be miniscule compared to what was being stated.

I am one for a conspiracy theory, so im all in on Russian collusion, I just think it would be pretty easy to evidence and the story would have blown up. I also think the Russian boogeyman has been over used.

Can't believe I forgot Russia. As much as he likes to call it a hoax, and as much as some of the Dem side overplayed it, there was most definitely some dodgy stuff going on there as highlighted in the Muller report. Shame we never got to the bottom of it.

 

[dirty harry]

Can't believe I forgot Russia. As much as he likes to call it a hoax, and as much as some of the Dem side overplayed it, there was most definitely some dodgy stuff going on there as highlighted in the Muller report. Shame we never got to the bottom of it.

I think they reached as bottom as they could, and compared to the hype it was a nothing burger really, similar to most claims, which is kind of my point.

I am willing to bet my mortgage, that had the Dems just took a more casual, less total establishment machine approach and just let Trump hang himself, we wouldnt be discussing this now, we would be arguing over something else, like how we managed to allow Clinton a 3rd term!

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think they reached as bottom as they could, and compared to the hype it was a nothing burger really, similar to most claims, which is kind of my point.

I am willing to bet my mortgage, that had the Dems just took a more casual, less total establishment machine approach and just let Trump hang himself, we wouldnt be discussing this now, we would be arguing over something else, like how we managed to allow Clinton a 3rd term!

Imagine if Trump had found even 10% of the dodgy stuff in the muller report had been done by the Biden administration. It’d be game over.

And that’s at the heart of the very significant role the right wing press and Trump controlling the narrative plays.

 

[dirty harry]

Imagine if Trump had found even 10% of the dodgy stuff in the muller report had been done by the Biden administration. It'd be game over.

And that's at the heart of the very significant role the right wing press and Trump controlling the narrative plays.

Game over for what? What does Trump control, 80% plus of traditional media is so opposed to him they call him the devil every time he scratches his arse, even the sources you stated are more negative than positive about him according to research (Fox 52% negative).infact I checked out a Pew research study, and the only online platform that wasnt overtly negative about Trump was X, at 48% right leaning.

So if every media source outside of X studied to have a negative view of him, i ask what right wing press are we talking about?

Trumps ability to control the narrative is partially his team selecting the most outrageous and stupid accusations l, and holding them up alongside all accusations, but mostly stupid strategising of attacking Trump and everything he does, touches or looks at, in the most disingenuous way.

Trump could walk into the white house, cock out, and take a **** in the Oval office while singing a rap entirely containing the N word, and he would survive it because AOC would tweet that she was there, and barely survived the ordeal by hiding under her bag and claiming Trump had associates who attempted to traffick her to Maro lago to become missus Donald Trump...