USA Rugby & Six Nations

[ChiefChopper]

There has been lots of discussion about expanding the 6 nations championship. A lot of this discussion has been around including Georgia/Romania. But if we are going to expand, surely the obvious country is the USA. A country that is developing a pro-league that should be supported in the northern hemisphere. I think it would be perfect fit.

 

[saulan]

There has been lots of discussion about expanding the 6 nations championship. A lot of this discussion has been around including Georgia/Romania. But if we are going to expand, surely the obvious country is the USA. A country that is developing a pro-league that should be supported in the northern hemisphere. I think it would be perfect fit.

Except that the tournament started off as and is a European competition. I don't think any of the teams would be interested in adding at least a ten hour travel time to their schedules. This works because away fans can easily get to the matches and its a tight-knit European affair.

Additionally, USA is nowhere near where they would need to be at the moment to get into the tournament. People are mentioning Georgia and Romania because they showed in recent years that they are actually deserving of a spot and that they would give the weaker teams a run for their money. The USA, it seems, has regressed, performing poorly at the World Cup and then performing poorly in the continental tournament they play in. I think they lost to Brazil? The USA will benefit from this league, but they need a good five to ten years before maybe their initiatives make them competitive. Right now they are not deserving and logistically it makes no sense.

 

[ChiefChopper]

I understand that logistically it would be tough. However, the NFL have managed it with there teams coming over. But I'm pretty sure that a US game v Ireland in Boston, a US game v England in New York and a US v France in New Oreleans if marketed well could attract the crowds!! The USA are close to being a major player in the world game. I'm someone from England who wants the game of Rugby to grow, and I think introducing the USA to the six nations would be a great start!!

 

[saulan]

I understand that logistically it would be tough. However, the NFL have managed it with there teams coming over. But I'm pretty sure that a US game v Ireland in Boston, a US game v England in New York and a US v France in New Oreleans if marketed well could attract the crowds!! The USA are close to being a major player in the world game. I'm someone from England who wants the game of Rugby to grow, and I think introducing the USA to the six nations would be a great start!!

You missed my main gripe I have with adding the US. They don't deserve it and they would weaken the tournament by putting them in. All teams that have been added to these tournaments have shown promise and signs that they can have a go in these matches. Argentina performed well in a World Cup and were producing great players, Italy had promising clubs and kept winning the other tournament they were involved in, same as France. The U.S. have been poor and so far have shown no signs of improving on the field. There have been signs that there is a market for the sport, which is great news, and I'm sure they will be there at some point in the future, but right now they don't deserve it and other teams have been more promising. Georgia have been winning their tournament consistently and have growing support. They should be the next team into the 6 nations and from a RC perspective we will most likely see Japan added to the mix at some point, maybe after the next World Cup or the one after. They have beaten Wales and South Africa, have a thriving domestic league and now have a SR team which got their first win this weekend. Plus the support can only grow after their World Cup.

- - - Updated - - -

Reference to the tournament the U.S. currently play in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Americas_Rugby_Championship
This is where they need to develop and improve first.

 

[ChiefChopper]

Absolutely understand your view that as it stands the US is not up to the standard of the teams in the six nations. But France wasn't when it entered, and could the US at the moment give teams like Italy a run for their money?( I think so) I just feel that some times you should look to expand the game. The USA in the six nations would be a great start, yes they probably would be a bit rubbish to begin with but I'm guessing that pretty soon they would start to be a competitive team. Teams like the USA can only get better when they play the top tier nations, it should be on a regular basis!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

USA are nowhere near being a major player on the international scene.

Maybe in 7s, but XVs?
Maybe in a decade, if their pro league doesn't go bust after a season or two

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nah, ideally the 6N wouldn't be expanded.

Churchill cup replacement involving Georgia/Romania as well would be great, though.

 

[Osezno]

The problem with a Churchill Cup-like tournament is that Georgia does not want to keep playing A sides. That is why they are touring Pacific Islands this June instead of hosting Tbilisi Cup: if they beat Tier 1 A sides, it does not matter because they are development teams (2014, v Emerging Italy) and if they decide to test new players and lose against them it is a blow to their image and aspirations (2015, v Emerging Italy too).

Romania will still be hosting Nations Cup this year, with Argentina XV and Emerging Italy involved.

 

[saulan]

Absolutely understand your view that as it stands the US is not up to the standard of the teams in the six nations. But France wasn't when it entered, and could the US at the moment give teams like Italy a run for their money?( I think so)

I spoke with a bit of ignorance on France joining the Six Nations so I looked it up now. They have been in it a lot longer than I thought. They joined just after World War two adn were anything but not up to standard. In their first season they ended fourth and the next season they ended second. On the point about America giving Italy a run for their money. I really don't think so. They lost to Brazil and Uruguay this year, they won't beat Italy. They need to develop themselves in that tournament first. It's exactly what they need to develop rivalry in their continent and build up their own game. You are missing the point of why people are discussing Georgia. Their nation has played through their equivalent tournament and have consistently been winning it. America have not done that.

I just feel that some times you should look to expand the game. The USA in the six nations would be a great start, yes they probably would be a bit rubbish to begin with but I'm guessing that pretty soon they would start to be a competitive team. Teams like the USA can only get better when they play the top tier nations, it should be on a regular basis!

We are absolutely looking to expand the game. But not to include a team that is going to get whipped every week. That doesn't do good things for the sport in the home country nor for the tournament itself. It's fine for a World Cup to have more teams in it and to use that to assess how Tier 2 teams are doing and whether they should move up, but it doesn't make sense for the six nations. Again, the teams to be looking to include and expand the game is Georgia, Romania and in the SH tournament, probably Japan (but not in the next five years at least in the case of Japan). Why do you want to prioritise America over teams that actually deserve it and can be competitive (and are in the right continent)? The fact that the Americas Rugby Championship exists is already proof that effort is being made to expand.

 

[Brigantine]

Reference to the tournament the U.S. currently play in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Americas_Rugby_Championship
This is where they need to develop and improve first.

I beg to differ

The Pacific Nations Cup is where USA need to perform well to prove themselves. In the Americas Rugby Championship only USA and Canada are at most world cups (and Argentina's senior team). Also Georgia are playing tests against the other 4 Pacific Nations this year - because that's who they want to prove themselves against. USA already has that opportunity 2 years out of 4.

You can't go too wrong using World Rugby Rankings to compare where teams are at. Just take care with ENC teams that win/lose their division, which seem to bounce around a lot (limited opportunity to play slightly better/worse teams). Big gap between 11 and 12, big gap between 15 and 16/17.

 

[saulan]

I beg to differ

The Pacific Nations Cup is where USA need to perform well to prove themselves. In the Americas Rugby Championship only USA and Canada are at most world cups (and Argentina's senior team). Also Georgia are playing tests against the other 4 Pacific Nations this year - because that's who they want to prove themselves against. USA already has that opportunity 2 years out of 4.

You can't go too wrong using World Rugby Rankings to compare where teams are at. Just take care with ENC teams that win/lose their division, which seem to bounce around a lot (limited opportunity to play slightly better/worse teams). Big gap between 11 and 12, big gap between 15 and 16/17.

Except that they can't anymore, because Japan, Canada and America have been removed from the tournament due to the qualifying process for the 2019 World Cup. I do agree that it would be better for them to prove themselves against the Pacific Island teams though. But they really hadn't been doing that over the past few years.

 

[Brigantine]

Japan, Canada and America have been removed from the tournament due to the qualifying process for the 2019 World Cup.

It's s shame they couldn't incorporate the Pacific 6 Nations into RWC qualifying. Still, I think this is mostly a fluke with none of the islands qualifying automatically, whereas normally 2 of them do. Come 2018 it will return to all 6 of them. Unless Georgia joins Rugby Asia

 

[McTallshort]

Not the 6 nations but I would love there to be a series of games hosted in England/Austraila/South Africa/France or even the states between all the tier 2 nations similer to the old Churchill cup but without the Saxons, just the tier 2. Played at the same time as the summer tours it would be nice little earner for the RFU. You could have 3 games over the day at HQ and even 1 at the Stoop making it a similar atmosphere to the Middlesex 7s or play it all over the club grounds. Would be happy to pay money to see Georgia V USA at Welford rd.

 

[RugbyPUBtbilisi]

Would be happy to pay money to see Georgia V USA at Welford rd.

November Test USA vs Georgia when every side has best squads. Would be great to watch.

 

[Welshdragon2000]

The England - Ireland game is being shown live on the main NBC channel on the USA this weekend. This must be a first for the USA and it's an important step to raise awareness which is the most important thing when trying to grow the game. Rugby is growing in America fast!

I know this isn't the right place to post but there's no USA rugby thread unfortunately.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Whilst a cool development, it'll be 10 in the morning...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Whilst a cool development, it'll be 10 in the morning...

TBF that's a decent time no competition form local sports.

 

[die_mole]

Game starts at 10:45 so Second half will be going against ncaa basketball so unless the game is amazing people will switch off.

East coast and Midwest rugby fans will have to leave for their games since our season is starting this weekend. Remember our participation numbers are good but are spectator numbers are very low.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As an aside, do you have any idea what the US sports channel viewer share is like?

Is it dominated by 1 channel/company? (FOX?)

Like... is NBC sports actually watched by anyone?

 

[die_mole]

it's not even being shown live, it's on tape delay at noon (so no casual sports fans will turn in) but at least it's on free TV.

nbc, fox, cbs, and abc are all free tv so their popularity is pretty much which sports they air

for cable TV... which are all affiliated with a free TV it goes ESPN (ABC), NBCSN, Fox Sports 1, then CBS Sports