Wales coach Rob Howley sent home from Rugby World Cup amid betting allegations

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by noah_jo, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Hurricanes

    Why do you agree with the rule? As far as I can see it, after a 10 second ponder, there is no reason for it if you have no control over the outcome, I.e your team isn't involved.

    Sure, you may have better information than others, but is that not a problem for the betting company rather than world rugby? Or maybe such a company sponsors the world cup? Or just world rugby is acting on behalf of all betting agencies out of the kindness of their hearts? It is more efficient rather than having all of them do their own policing. And, I suppose if part of fans' interest is derived from the joy of betting then I guess world rugby has incentive to maintain the integrity of that aspect.

    Ok, so maybe it makes sense
     
  2. Forum Ad Advertisement

  3. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,125
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Leicester

    I guess the main reason is to do with insider information and unfair advantage. Also any betting leads to questions about other possible bets. I think it's a case that you could spend years dealing with each case individually if you had looser rules and so a blanket unambiguous rule is simpler and more effective.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  4. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,093
    Country Flag:

    Sweden

    Club or Nation:

    Glasgow

    Apparently Howley bet £4000 on 20 Welsh players being picked for the next Lions squad.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Hurricanes

    Good points. Still the confusing thing for me, at least initially, was just that World rugby has enforced this when it is Not their issue, it is an issue for the betting agencies. Why do you think that is? Were the hypotheses in my last post valid, do you think ?

    Edit: obviously world rugby doesn’t want match fixing. After that I suppose your other points about a blanket rule make more sense.

    if what oggy says is true that is very far from minor. He was potentially going to have some say in those selections. I wonder what the odds were. I also wonder what the odds were before the last lions tour and how much he earned then. I mean Gary ringrose should have been selected ahead of Wyn Jones at lock right? but more seriously, you have to wonder. And given how much some people care, many on this forum not to mention the players who miss out, about these selections, it would be pretty evil for them to be subject to match fixing.

    @The Oggmonster were you serious or taking the ****?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  6. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    11,945
    Location:
    Concussed or something...
    Country Flag:

    Ireland

    Club or Nation:

    Leinster

    If that's true he should face a ban really, he knows exactly what the decision maker thinks about every single one.
     
  7. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,093
    Country Flag:

    Sweden

    Club or Nation:

    Glasgow

    Maybe I should have added an emoji to better highlight my tongue in cheek dig after what happened last time around.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    11,945
    Location:
    Concussed or something...
    Country Flag:

    Ireland

    Club or Nation:

    Leinster

    Haha, I thought you meant individual Welsh players. Sounded plausible!
     
  9. Johnny Storm

    Johnny Storm Academy Player

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2019
    Messages:
    54
    This is a very strange story. A small flutter can kill a career? Everybody knows that match fixing is not allowed, I mean it never happens in football?

    I remember back in 2007 there was talk of some hedge funds betting big on SA. Nobody believed it, but it was strange that both NZ and AUS flew home from the QFs on the same plane leaving the door wide open for the Boks.

    Maybe this is all just a heavy (public) clamp down on an individual to hide much bigger shenanigans behind the scenes?
     
  10. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,093
    Country Flag:

    Sweden

    Club or Nation:

    Glasgow

    Well there were 16 or 17 picked last time and that was after Wales finished 5th in the 6N so anything is possible :)
     
  11. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,093
    Country Flag:

    Sweden

    Club or Nation:

    Glasgow

    Happy to confirm it was a p*** take before Howler's lawyers start to hunt me down.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    3,290
    Location:
    London
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    I just think there have to be no grey areas. And in many ways stuff is linked. Like, you could always find a hypothetical way that one team’s coach could indirectly affect the outcome of another coach - by tailing off at the end of the previous game to avoid injuring key players because you’re betting them next week, for example. A kiwi going easier on an Australian opponent in a SR game when you’ve bet on Aus against Argentina next week. Unlikely? Maybe - but if every coach and player is allowed to gamble, then there will be hundreds of opportunities to make those little decisions, whether consciously or unconsciously. Why allow even a slight possibility?

    Given there is zero advantage at all to World Rugby in allowing gambling, there’s no reason not to ban it completely.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    34,692
    Location:
    Lichfield(ish), UK
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Sale

    Considering you can bet on pretty much every aspect of a game a guy who knows team selections way in advance could make some informed bets

    Like if he knows the first choice fullback is playing against the tier 2 side you're gonna blow away - the coach puts a chunk of change down on the first choice fullback making the most metres in the game at slightly elevated odds because the bookies expect 2nd choice 15 to play

    Blanket ban makes most sense and is easiest to enforce
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. The_Blindside

    The_Blindside First XV

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    4,761
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    British Irish Lions

    I knew you were taking the **** straight away. :).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Hurricanes

    It’s gotta be more about the fixing aspect than betting advantage though,, because the latter is the betting agencies’ problem, not world rugby’s. Right?
     
  16. Reiser99

    Reiser99 First XV

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,125
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Leicester

    I guess it's to avoid bringing the game into disrepute. Again it's simpler to have a clear, blanket rule, than to constantly spend your time debating if someone is in the wrong. I can't believe Howley is so hard up he needs this money for retirement or something and if he does have financial problems then maybe this is linked to it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Tallshort

    Tallshort International

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    5,199
    Location:
    Coalville
    Country Flag:

    Poland

    Club or Nation:

    Leicester

    Apparently he's been under investigation for a couple of months. If that is the case it seems daft them flying him out to Japan in the first place
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Hurricanes

    It must be a diversion...
     
  19. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref First XV

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    3,290
    Location:
    London
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    It’s the tiniest of tiny steps from “knew the first choice FB would be playing” to “influenced Gatland to select the first choice FB”
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Umaga's Witness

    Umaga's Witness Bench Player

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    978
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Hurricanes

    Yes! that Articulates why they say “no betting” rather than “no fixing”.
     
  21. MikeTheNative

    MikeTheNative Bench Player

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2016
    Messages:
    992
    Country Flag:

    Wales

    Club or Nation:

    Wales

    Where did you hear this from? Going form WRU's statement they were only told informally last Wednesday from a betting company and they might need to investigate. There's not much point speculating what it is as it could be a number of things from him betting on Wales games, to him telling family members to bet on certain odds and just even him betting of a France vs Italy 6 nations game.
     
Enjoyed this thread? Register to post your reply - click here!

Share This Page