Wales coach Warren Gatland blasts lack of leadership

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_Cymro, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. TRF_Cymro

    TRF_Cymro Cymro The White

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    [​IMG]

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/8730219.stm

    Hey Warren ... shut up and start giving players some direction game time.
     
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  3. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    Just sub the words "players" for "coach" and "regional" for "national" and that ,makes for one hypocritical comment.
     
  4. Steve-o

    Steve-o Senior Member

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    I get the feeling that Welsh fans are growing tired of Gatland's talk, from here and other forums
     
  5. TRF_Cymro

    TRF_Cymro Cymro The White

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    The end is nye
     
  6. MunsterMan

    MunsterMan Senior Member

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    First of all - Gatland has not changed his game plan since he took over, it is still either kick the ball long aimlessly keeping it in play or attack the shortside and spin it wide. His days are numbered as Welsh coach and it is disappointing he is blaming his players for his own shortcomings.

    Having said that, I think he has a point to be honest, there was a definite lack of decision on the pitch (and off it as I have said above) against SA. It's a fair point, guys look to the likes of Rush and Tito at Cardiff, Collins and Holah at the Ospreys, Lyons and King at Scarlets for leadership and inspiration. Same in Ireland, England and France. I don't think this is necessarily always a bad thing either but it does happen.
     
  7. dullonien

    dullonien Senior Member

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    I agree 100% with what Gatland is saying. At every region the go-to players are SH imports. At the Blues you have Rush and Molitika who are the main two who make decisions and lead the team. The Ospreys have been relying heavily on Collins' infuence this season, although I feel that's an area where Biggar excells. The Scarlets go to man is Lyons, whilst the Dragons' is Willis.

    Phillips can be that kind of character who tries to up the tempo etc. but even he didn't show much of that against the Boks. Gatland tried to take the blame off Ryan Jones, but this is something the Captain should be doing. The problem is that he's a lead by example kind of player, but that doesn't work where he's not playing all that well. Alun-Wyn is someone who can offer that, but his stupid actions in the 6Nations questioned that.

    Cymro. I don't see a problem with Gatland having outbursts like this. Blasting opposition teams and players is something he should (and has recently) keep out of. But critisizing his own team is something I feel he's entitled to do. Gatland and the players always go on about honesty, being honest to the press and Welsh supporters is just as important as being honest within the squad. Gatland is always honest in his assesments of games and performances and I for one find is refreshing when most other coaches are anythign but!

    Edit. MunsterMan. I agree that the Welsh tactics are still a little predictable and I'd like that to change. But I didn't think the tactics were to blame against the Boks. Yes the tactics are to keep the ball on the field, but I'm sure it wouldn't be when you're severely under the cosh, as we were when Stephen Jones kicked down SA's throat for the first try. I feel players need to take some responsibility and adjust the gameplan where needed, i.e. if keeping the ball in play isn't working, then Ryan should change things then and there.

    Going the same direction is something which can work if doen properly. The Lions used similar tactics and it worked well. I think it's the players faults when they do it to the n'th degree though, i.e. when Phillips goes the same way when there's one forward v 2-3 within 5m of the touchline.

    Wales are competative in every match nowerdays, that's what Gatland had to instill after the mockery of the 2007 WC. Mistakes are killing us, not gameplan and not talking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  8. TRF_Cymro

    TRF_Cymro Cymro The White

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    Sorry Dull but I am quite annoyed by this. I am so tempted to nit pick this post and take it apart its unreal. But im not going to do that.

    However ...

    Funny you seem to think Biggar influences the game ... all well and good ... for the Blues could argue that Sweeney when at 10 has done the same, same as Richie Rees when he played at 9. We all know Tito, Rush and Molitika all have influence for the Blues. The fact of the matter is that Wales has not real leaders. Thats not a statement thats fact. These players have come in to provide that and nothing seems to come from it. Thinking of it Blues actually have Martyn Williams so they do have a leader.

    "I think it's the players faults when they do it to the n'th degree though" When you say that its not a correct statement. The Lions did it .... because the entire Welsh backroom staff was there and thats the Welsh game plan. The players have obviously been coached to do it. Its about decisions. When theres a 4 on 2 overlap out wide and we choose to constantly attack the blindside then im afraid thats the the correct option. The fact of the matter is we have become predictable. Something that you have eluded in your post.

    When Gatland is being honest ... why is he not being honest about the coaching staff. He dodges questions about it when he is asked about it. McBryde was a terrible hooker for Wales and has shown he is not a forwards coach for Wales. The lineout is struggling and our forwards play is not great at times. Yet Gatland is honest about this but does nothing about it. As a forwards expert then why is he not addressing it?

    The RWC 2007 was a shambles because of the coaching set up we had. We played a lame style of rugby and players were not developing. I agree Gatland has made us better but in all honesty we are not really progressing because the Welsh game has many holes in it. When Plan A fails ... where is our Plan B? As I said we have become predictable.

    Also this is not football and constantly moaning to the press is for me a little bit annoying.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
  9. TRF_SelimNiai

    TRF_SelimNiai 'Ark at ee mun!

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    I half agree with that, to the point that there doesn't seem to be a plan B, what do we do if the kicking game fails, and whilst they players should be able to think their feet we do need our coaching team to come up with some idea on ho we will adapt.
     
  10. dullonien

    dullonien Senior Member

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    Don't get me wrong Cymro, I have always disliked the structured gameplan we have played under Gatland (except for 08 when it bought results lol). I think it was the perfect thing to do to begin with, concentrate on our weaknesses (power, fitness, agression and defense). However I felt that once those were in place, Gatland would switch his concentrations back to the flair in order to create a complete team. But he hasn't to a big enough extent. I agree with you that we have become predictable and we need to use the skills we've built up under Gatland to unleash what's always been there, true flair and natural footballing ability that most Welsh players have in abundance.

    Jonathan Davies pointed out on scrum v the other week that Wales' gameplan works well when we minimize mistakes. If we can recycle the ball quickly, stretching defense will always create missmatches and holes out wide for players such as Hook and Shane to take advantage of. the '08 6 Nations went well because the team put together 80min performances with very few errors. Wales' lack of a plan B is worrying, but I'm still tempted to put that down to lack of onfield leaders. Look at the 6 nations, every game was turned around at half time after Gatland addresses them. To me that suggests that the players need pointing out what's going wrong and how to chage things, why can't the players themselves do this?

    I'm still a supporter of Gatland. Gone are the days where NZ or SA put 30, 40, 50 etc. points on us; where we cling for dear life to stay in the games from the outset. The '08 Grand Slam was porbably just one of those things, where everything went right, it was probably a curse in disguise, as it wasn't a true reflection of where we were at the time. I feel the team is still building, and although I feel Gatland hasn't kept up the good start he made in regard to ruthless and form selection, I still feel he's the man to lead us untill at least the WC.

    The gameplan looked to be workign bloody well for the first 20mins against SA. We really had them on the ropes, then all of a sudden the players started making bad errors and the lineout fell to pieces. I accept that the coaches, especially McBride who I agree isn't qualified, must take some of the blame for some aspects of the game, but equal if not more blame lies with the players and on-field leaders at the moment.
     
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