Wales Summer Tour 2012

[Draggs]

2 June v Barbarians, Millennium Stadium.
9 June v Australia, Suncorp Stadium.
16 June v Australia, Etihad Stadium.
23 June v Australia, Sydney Football Stadium.
Possibly a midweek match v ACT Brumbies

Who would you pick for the squad? Who would you drop?
I see the Barbarians and Brumbies matches as good opportunites for the younger players.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few players given a shot for the opening match, who aren't first choice.

01 Paul James/Ryan Bevington. Bevington is excellent in the loose, but James is a solid scrummager and would set up a good platform for us.
02 Ken Owens. Very impressive in the Six Nations when finally given his chance.
03 Rhodri Jones/Craig Mitchell. My first left-field selection, ever-improving, good match v Cardiff but on the other side (switched between both).
04 Bradley Davies. Probably our forth choice second row now, would take this opportunity though.
05 Alun Wyn Jones/Luke Charteris. Both returning from injury, both bring something different to the field, tough one to call.
06 Aaron Shingler. No doubt Dan is our best 6, but Shingler has a different skill set and a very good player in his own way.
07 Justin Tipuric. Will be pushing Sam hard soon.
08 Ryan Jones (C). Gareth Delve will still be with the Rebels, and Ryan was outstanding throughout the Six Nations.

09 Lloyd Williams. Form has been up and down, but a very good prospect and not worth throwing out yet.
10 James Hook. Oh no, not the Hook to 10 debate!!! Rhys has also had varied form, and but we can't risk him here. Will Hook be released though?
11 Harry Robinson. Explosive little wing with pace to burn, expect big things from him.
12 Ashley Beck. Unlucky to not have been capped yet, a different type of 12 than Roberts, and a smart runner.
13 Scott Williams. Another pacy back, would shine in a match such as this.
14 Morgan Stoddart/Alex Cuthbert. Too quick for Moggsy to return? I like the look of Cuthbert, and I think he would be lethal here.
15 Liam Williams/Martyn Thomas. Liam Williams is hard working player, while Martyn Thomas has shown he still has pace after his injuries, both are good options.

16 Huw Bennett.
17 One of the unused props
18 AW Jones or Charteris
19 Josh Turnbull
20 Rhys Webb/Gareth Davies
21 Dan Biggar...
22 Williams, Stoddart, or Thomas

 

[Me 1]

01 Paul James/Ryan Bevington. Bevington is excellent in the loose, but James is a solid scrummager and would set up a good platform for us.
02 Ken Owens. Very impressive in the Six Nations when finally given his chance.
03 Rhodri Jones/Craig Mitchell. My first left-field selection, ever-improving, good match v Cardiff but on the other side (switched between both).
04 Bradley Davies. Probably our forth choice second row now, would take this opportunity though.
05 Alun Wyn Jones/Luke Charteris. Both returning from injury, both bring something different to the field, tough one to call.
06 Aaron Shingler. No doubt Dan is our best 6, but Shingler has a different skill set and a very good player in his own way.
07 Justin Tipuric. Will be pushing Sam hard soon.
08 Ryan Jones (C). Gareth Delve will still be with the Rebels, and Ryan was outstanding throughout the Six Nations.

09 Lloyd Williams. Form has been up and down, but a very good prospect and not worth throwing out yet.
10 James Hook. Oh no, not the Hook to 10 debate!!! Rhys has also had varied form, and but we can't risk him here. Will Hook be released though?
11 Harry Robinson. Explosive little wing with pace to burn, expect big things from him.
12 Ashley Beck. Unlucky to not have been capped yet, a different type of 12 than Roberts, and a smart runner.
13 Scott Williams. Another pacy back, would shine in a match such as this.
14 Morgan Stoddart/Alex Cuthbert. Too quick for Moggsy to return? I like the look of Cuthbert, and I think he would be lethal here.
15 Liam Williams/Martyn Thomas. Liam Williams is hard working player, while Martyn Thomas has shown he still has pace after his injuries, both are good options.

16 Huw Bennett.
17 One of the unused props
18 AW Jones or Charteris
19 Josh Turnbull
20 Rhys Webb/Gareth Davies
21 Dan Biggar...
22 Williams, Stoddart, or Thomas

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Please, I'd even pick S.Shingler

 

[Draggs]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Please, I'd even pick S.Shingler

I feel you mate, but who else?
Shingler isn't an option, Tovey isn't up to it. Robinson is out of it I am assuming. Matthew Morgan isn't near this level yet.
Steffan Jones then? Hell of a boot on him

 

[Me 1]

I feel you mate, but who else?
Shingler isn't an option, Tovey isn't up to it. Robinson is out of it I am assuming. Matthew Morgan isn't near this level yet.
Steffan Jones then? Hell of a boot on him

Henson Maybe worth it though, certainly better than Biggar.

Also, I do like Steff, one for the future definitely.

 

[welshglory]

That's pretty much the team i'd select Draggs. But i'd have Mitchell starting at tighthead with Scott Andrews as back up squad member and i don't think Rhodri Jones should tour.

Here are some wild cards for the squad:

Hanno Dirksen - He qualifies for Wales in the summer and looks like a very special player.
Kieran Murphy - We don't have a lot of 8's and he's looked good for the Scarlets
Josh Navidi? - Another openside
Aaron Jarvis - Another tighthead
Andries Pretorius - Qualifies for Wales in the summer, another 8 option

I'd also look at bringing one of McCusker, Turnbull or Lewis Evans.

 

[psychic duck]

1. Ryan Bevington
2. Matthew Rees
3. anybody but Scott Andrews he is seriously bad
4. Bradley Davies
5. Luke Charteris
6. Ryan Jones (captain)
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Rhys Priestland
11. Aled Brew (I know he's not impressed with Wales but I like him)
12. Ashley Beck
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

this is assuming all English/French based players are unavailable

by the way, please no Steffan Jones he has been woeful when I have seen him play, Biggar isn't that bad (although he has a habit of playing crap whenever I stick up for him)

also don't pick Hanno Dirksen, USA need him more, and in fact I've heard Little Guy on this forum saying it's going to be one of the new American coach's first jobs to persuade him back to USA, I would hate for Dirksen to get 2 caps for Wales and never play international again when he'd be a guaranteed starter for his entire career with USA

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Against the Baa Baas, I'd go-

Bevington, Ken, Mitchell/Andrews (Depending on the AP player release), Bradley Davies, Charteris, Shingler, Tipuric, Powell/Ryan; Webb, Hook; Robinson, Beck, Foxy, Cuthbert, Stoddart/Liam Williams

Bench- Hibbard, Rhodri Jones, AWJ, Ryan/Navidi, Lloyd, Tovey, George

Hanno Dirksen & Andries Pretorius don't qualify until August, so we couldn't play them in June. Shame, as otherwise I'd have Dirksen straight in the team.

 

[bushytop]

Mentioned on a separate thread that it may be the right time to reintroduce Biggar to the squad... his form looks pretty decent of late.

Imperative that Beck, S Williams, A Shingler, Tipuric, Owens, Bevington get some gametime this summer and surely Stoddart should be back by then too.

Probably hoping here but the least I'd be happy with is a tied series... think we finally have a talented enough and most of all a professional outfit to take south with intent.

 

[Draggs]

I contemplated Pretorius but with his injury layoff I decided against him.
We'll have Paterson next year as well.

Brew is a massive hell no. Not even been in great form for us. Never looked anything beyond Pro12 level. I'd rather give a nipper like Harry or even Walker a shot.
Scott Andrews as well, no chance. Got mullered by Rhodri this weekend.

Dirksen has said he wants to represent Wales, but I think he will miss this tour. Shame.

Stef is a good prospect with a solid boot. Poor defence, but that hasn't stopped others from playing. Needs to work on his passing but he is eager and will further develop.
Slight bias...

Murphy and Navidi need at least another season before getting called up, Jarvis just doesn't seem to be up to this level.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Rhodri will be a loosehead due to the nature of his longback. I don't think Jarvis is good enough to be considered an international player yet for Wales, his scrummaging has left much to be desired for.

If we want to look at other possible selections (far field): James Down, Cory Hill, Macauley Cook, Harry Robinson (Blues), Jason Tovey, Ashley Smith, Martyn Thomas (Dragons), Tom Prydie (Ospreys) and Dominic Day, Daniel Evans (Scarlets)

 

[Draggs]

Between Down, Cook, Hill, and Screech, the Blues have pretty much every up and coming second row.

I rate Day higher than Reed, but Lou did well on his bench appearance v Scotland, put a decent amount of tackles in his few minutes.
I'd like to see Prydie in an 'A' team (not getting into that one right now) and play some rugby in Wales before returning to the fold.

Joe Rees needs a bit more game time, but for me, seems the best option to replace Adam in the long run.

 

[psychic duck]

Rhodri will be a loosehead due to the nature of his longback. I don't think Jarvis is good enough to be considered an international player yet for Wales, his scrummaging has left much to be desired for.

Andrews is an international player for Wales, his scrummaging has left much to be desired for ......

Scott Andrews as well, no chance. Got mullered by Rhodri this weekend.

Andrews is a woeful scrummager, he's been mullered most of the times I've seen him play to be honest, against an inexperienced prop in Rhodri Jones this weekend, against Cian Healy with Leinster, against Ryan Bevington with the Ospreys, and also against Australia in December all of which he has struggled

if the Cardiff Blues have Yapp and Andrews as first choice props next season they will struggle

must be one of the worst players to play for Wales in my memory

Stef is a good prospect with a solid boot. Poor defence, but that hasn't stopped others from playing. Needs to work on his passing but he is eager and will further develop.
Slight bias...

Steffan Jones is a mile off being good enough for Wales selection, he should try displacing Lewis Robling as the Dragons second choice fly half first

Brew is a massive hell no. Not even been in great form for us. Never looked anything beyond Pro12 level. I'd rather give a nipper like Harry or even Walker a shot.

You are harsh on Brew, when he was on great form last season I thought he had the potential to really have a good go at it given a chance, unfortunately against Namibia he got smashed on more than one occasion by Tinus du Plessis and Jacques Burger, and the same thing happened in 2010 against Fiji as well

he's not "a massive hell no" though, he's an intelligent player and good professional who has worked hard to make it as far he has (many players would have lost it after going past two regions and not being given a fair chance), although I agree he hasn't made the step up to international rugby, I would take him in a flash at the Ospreys if we could get him, still baffled as to why Jonny Vaughton was picked ahead of him there, he has been around a while but is still way younger than I thought just 25 so I would rather him come in if there were a few injuries to wingers than Tom James or Chris Czekaj

I would have Morgan Stoddart ahead of Brew though based on their performances for Wales, but none of us know whether Stoddart is going to be any good when he comes back from such a serious leg injury, he could have lost a lot of pace who knows? remember the Arsenal player Eduardo? he was good, but then had a horrible leg injury similar to Stoddart's and was only half player when he returned

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Andrews is an international player for Wales, his scrummaging has left much to be desired for ......

Point being? When he burst onto the scene he had potential. Obviously he has not fulfilled that potential yet, still early days in his scrummaging career. I don't think he will be a killer prop but in years to come he will be decent but no more.

must be one of the worst players to play for Wales in my memory

Then you have a very short memory. There have been much worse players to be capped off in the last 10 - 15 years than Andrews. Matthew Jones and Will James instantly spring to mind. To be fair he was ok for Wales, did not much wrong but nothing much right either.

 

[Draggs]

Except Brew isn't an intelligent player. He either runs straight into contact, or kicks it and goes into contact. He cannot step or swerve. Don't get me wrong, he is a hard worker, but just not up to this level. We have accepted this with Czekaj and James, but Brew keeps popping up.

Andrews is poor, and only used due to Craig Mitchell's lack of availability. I hope he can improve, but he doesn't really have any other skills to make up for this (workrate, etc).

I didn't suggest Steffan for Wales, I was meerly pointing out that he too is far from the finished product.

 

[dullonien]

Rhodri will be a loosehead due to the nature of his longback. I don't think Jarvis is good enough to be considered an international player yet for Wales, his scrummaging has left much to be desired for.

I'd have Jarvis ahead of Scott Andrews, well I'd have anyone ahead of Scott Andrews, although it would be close between him and Cai Griffiths . Andrews as a train wreck of a scrummager, get's mangled by every single opposition. Seeing the Scarlets scrum muller the Blues one this weekend was alarming to say the least. I know this isn't solely down to Andrews, because the gentle giant on the loose wasn't much better in the scrum (Yapp btw).

What kind of squad size do people think we'll see? Considering it's 5 matches, with one being midweek, it's going to have to be larger than the Gatland norm. 35-40?

 

[Draggs]

Yeah, looks like we are going to have two 22's, one to send down to Aus ahead of the Barbarians, and one to play that match.
Any ideas on who will make up each?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I know sentiments are not Galtand's thing but I would love to see Warren just give Martyn a chance to earn his 100 caps and let him retire on a high with Wales. Sadly sentiment is never Warren's thing and never should it be, but c'mon Warren let a great servant have his time ... please?

 

[Draggs]

I know sentiments are not Galtand's thing but I would love to see Warren just give Martyn a chance to earn his 100 caps and let him retire on a high with Wales. Sadly sentiment is never Warren's thing and never should it be, but c'mon Warren let a great servant have his time ... please?

Certainly see your point, and I wish Nugget was our most-capped player, but Tipuric is our best starting option. Off the bench, perhaps we could see Nugget.
Is this match capped?

 

[psychic duck]

Point being? When he burst onto the scene he had potential. Obviously he has not fulfilled that potential yet, still early days in his scrummaging career. I don't think he will be a killer prop but in years to come he will be decent but no more.

people said the same about Buckley for years, he was given loads of time to become from awful to decent but it never happened, now most Irish fans agree that there was too much time invested in him

in watching Andrews get mullered in every match this year, even by quite average scrummaging teams like Glasgow, I don't hold much hope for him ever as an international player, I know there are props who have improved but Andrews is dreadfulness is at another level

Then you have a very short memory. There have been much worse players to be capped off in the last 10 - 15 years than Andrews. Matthew Jones and Will James instantly spring to mind. To be fair he was ok for Wales, did not much wrong but nothing much right either.

well, I definitely think Andrews should be mentioned along with those names

Except Brew isn't an intelligent player. He either runs straight into contact, or kicks it and goes into contact. He cannot step or swerve. Don't get me wrong, he is a hard worker, but just not up to this level. We have accepted this with Czekaj and James, but Brew keeps popping up.

I just like Aled Brew, I would take him every time in a club team, still annoys me the Ospreys got rid and kept Jonny Vaughton

Certainly see your point, and I wish Nugget was our most-capped player, but Tipuric is our best starting option. Off the bench, perhaps we could see Nugget.
Is this match capped?

I hope the match isn't capped, I don't want any cheap Wales caps awarded in a mass experimental team

 

[dullonien]

Yeah, looks like we are going to have two 22's, one to send down to Aus ahead of the Barbarians, and one to play that match.
Any ideas on who will make up each?

Aww, means we won't see Shane v North on the international stage, was looking forward to that one.

I'd say the two 22's would be something like (with everyone fit (other than the ones definitely out)):

Gethin Jenkins 01 Ryan Bevington
Ken Owens 02 Richard Hibbard
Adam Jones 03 Craig Mitchell
Alun-Wyn Jones 04 Bradley Davies
Ian Evans 05 Lou Reed
Dan Lydiate 06 Aaron Shingler
Sam Warburton 07 Justin Tipuric
Toby Faletau 08 Andy Powell

Mike Phillips 09 Rhys Webb
Rhys Priestland 10 Dan Biggar
George North 11 Harry Robinson
Ashley Beck 12 Gavin Henson
Jon Davies 13 Scott Williams
Alex Cuthbert 14 Liam Williams
Leigh Halfpenny 15 Lee Byrne

Matthew Rees 16 Kirby Myhill
Paul James 17 Rhodri Jones
Luke Charteris 18 McCauley Cook
Ryan Jones 19 Josh Turnbull
Lloyd Williams 20 Richie Rees
James Hook 21 Stephen Jones
? 22 ?

​

I've tried to keep the first team as close to full strength as possible. Ideally, Scott Williams would be the final back on the bench, but I feel it would better if he started v the BaaBaa's. This leaves a hole on the bench, and I can't decide who would best fill it. Byrne could cover the back three with Hook covering 10, 12 and 13, but again I've gone for him starting v the BaaBaa's. I've got the same problem with the second team as well, who could act as a utility back to cover 12-15? Henson could be emergency fullback cover I suppose, and Scott Williams has played wing in the past, so maybe Bishop on the bench?

A few of the replacement for the 2nd 22 are a little left field. At hooker, with Bennett injured and Burns retired, we're practically out. T Rhys Thomas is an option, but maybe it would be better to give a run out to another promising youngster. Myhill captained the U20's and is a very promising player, so I've gone for him. There's a similar problem at lock. Dom Day might be the more sensible option, or draft Gough in for a final match, but I'm a fan of Cook, so I've gone with him.

Martyn is unlucky to miss out completely, but Tipuric has to be there, and then Turnbull makes a better bench option covering both flanks. The other option would be to have Tipuric on the main team bench (along with Ryan Jones who can cover 4, 5, 6 and 8), bring Charteris in to start against the BaaBaa's, relegate Reed to the bench, and start Martyn Williams (or start Turnbull and have Williams on the bench). That might make more sense altogether. I'd be tempted to have Kieran Murphy ahead of Powell, I can't decide. Not keen on having Stephen Jones on the bench, because he's in dire form, but I still don't think he'd let the team down if called upon, and Tovey isn't ready, especially due to his limited gametime of late.​