[Wales] What happened to this star-spangled side ?

[Aout]

Last time I was talking with a friend of mine about Europe's strongest sides. We talked about France, England, Ireland and then... Wales.

He said that Wales was probably the only non-French team he could give the name of all players, and I agreed. According to me, the Welsh team looks like this (I picked up the first names that come to my mind) :

15. Lee Byrne or Stoddart
14. Halfpenny
13. Jamie Roberts
12. James Hook (Gavin Henson)
11. Shane Williams
10. Stephen Jones
9. Mike Phillips
8. Andy Powell
7. Warburton
6. ?
5. Ryan Jones
4. Bradley Davies
3. Adam Jones
2. Rees
1. Jenkins

ALL these guys are superstars. They are actually even more famous than French players. Who knows Maxime Mermoz ? Frenchs. Who knows Jamie Roberts or James Hook ? Everybody.

So how can such a team be one of the worst in Europe at the moment ? What happened ? On the paper, this team would beat any opponent. I know you had some issues with your coach. Is it the only reason ?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I await psychic duck's analysis before I fully comment.

 

[stus768]

Jamie Roberts has struggled after the Lions tour. He is also massively under used. Just give him the ball. Hook is moved all over the place and for some reason Lee byrne has not been playing well. Jenkins and Adam Jones have been injured most of the season. I agree though, they went from playing near perfect rugby in 6 nations 2008 to being very poor in this tournament. Something wrong with the coaches maybe??

 

[antipodean]

So how can such a team be one of the worst in Europe at the moment ? What happened ? On the paper, this team would beat any opponent. I know you had some issues with your coach. Is it the only reason ?

Because they aren't all superstars. And they've got Stephen Jones masquerading as a first five-eighth.

 

[iWin]

The reason this team seems like it could beat anyone and the reason they aren't seem to be the same to me: reputation.
Players like Mike Phillips, Andy Powell, Lee Byrne and Shane Williams are fantastic when they're on form, but they haven't been for a while. They are still considered 'the best in Wales' though on the basis of what they have done/ could do.
You've got a team with a lot of potential but who aren't living up to it. The guilty players need to be dropped (although probably kept in the national setup) and some serious work needs to be put into creating a team, rather than just throwing the 'best' players together and hoping.

 

[TVH11]

I think Money and greed is the main problem. Theres a little lack of pride in the jersey, and certain "superstars" have taken being picked for granted. All in all though, its just form. We do seem to lack spark when Shane doesn't play, but when he does we give him the ball in silly isolated areas and expect him to create a miracle.

Our tactics of late have been all wrong, the whole going across the same way until theres no space and then go the other way.

We never seem to get the combination of backs to forwards working together either. When we develop form in the pack, our backs decide to have an off day. When our back "click" (which hasn't happened since 08), our forwards just lose it. been very strange few years, i just hope we don't have 07 all over again. Speaking to a few people down the pub, and pessimism is a huge understatement with a lot of them

 

[Draggs]

Poor player performances at regional level= poor performances at international level.
Watch the Welsh clubs and you will see how awful they are performing. Watch the national side play, it looks basically the same.
Hopefully the players leaving will actually improve our side, as unfortunate as it is to say.

 

[Peat]

Ryan Jones at lock and Andy Powell anywhere are not superstars.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Warren Gatland yet.

Also, Wales' back-row is poo as a whole*, they've got no outside centre and their first-choice tight five is fairly good but injuries reveal zero back-up on the same level. Plus Philipps and Jones have no real back up if not playing well.

*Which is to say Warburton's very good, they've got a bunch of young pups who are still learning (I include Lydiate) and the likes of Powell, Jones and Thomas are increasingly not fit for purpose. One International back-row + Two not quite there currently = poo, due to the general strength of backrows.

 

[Draggs]

Warren Gatland isn't the problem.
He spends of fraction of the season with the players, yet gets slated for all problems.
Rob Howley is the one I want to see go.
He is the attacking coach- what attack? Shane Williams and George North is our only attack.

Regarding our backrow, Warburton is getting better all the time, while Lydiate should be a quality blindside in a season or two. Not saying he is bad, but still has a way to go.
We will hopefully have Faletau and Morgan vying for 8, so a pretty young back row.

 

[mikejones123]

I think there not dangerous enough in attack. They seem to do the same set play every phrase. Maybe a new set play with a new back line Maybe 15:LEIGH HALFPENNY 14:GEORGE NORTH 13:SCOTT WILLIAMS 12:JONATHAN DAVIES 11:ALED BREW OR CHRISTIAN PHILLIPS 10: MATTHEW MORGAN 9:RHYS WEBB.8 TOBY FALAUTE 7:SAM WARBURTON 6:RYAN JONES 5:ALUN WYN JONES 4:BRADLEY DAVIES 3:GETHIN JENKINS 2:MATTHEW REES 1:ADAM JONES
I think the lights of shane williams,lee byrne,mike phillips,gavin henson,james hook was very good but at the moment there rugby is school type and slow and mistakey. I do agree with you up there they are exspected 2 do stuff they did 2 years ago. Its time 4 a change
.......

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I think there not dangerous enough in attack. They seem to do the same set play every phrase. Maybe a new set play with a new back line Maybe 15:LEIGH HALFPENNY 14:GEORGE NORTH 13:SCOTT WILLIAMS 12:JONATHAN DAVIES 11:ALED BREW OR CHRISTIAN PHILLIPS 10: MATTHEW MORGAN 9:RHYS WEBB.8 TOBY FALAUTE 7:SAM WARBURTON 6:RYAN JONES 5:ALUN WYN JONES 4:BRADLEY DAVIES 3:GETHIN JENKINS 2:MATTHEW REES 1:ADAM JONES
I think the lights of shane williams,lee byrne,mike phillips,gavin henson,james hook was very good but at the moment there rugby is school type and slow and mistakey. I do agree with you up there they are exspected 2 do stuff they did 2 years ago. Its time 4 a change
.......

Kristian Phillips and not Christian Phillips
Gethin Jenkins is a loosehead and not a tighthead (although has previously played there)
Adam Jones is a tighthead and not a loosehead

 

[Draggs]

I'd hate to see that Welsh backline in defence.

 

[scarlets-fan]

I think it's just a matter of tactics. The game evolves every few years and our tactics clearly haven't. That's why our attack has become predictable and easy to defend.

Also the mindless kicking game we have has to go, we seem to be in a constant cycle of stupid box kicks where we just end up with the ball being run back at us. This is the last thing we should be doing against fiji & samoa <meta charset="utf-8">in the world cup. The coaching staff really need to wake up and adapt, how often do New Zealand do box kicks? And on the rare occasion they do, there's always a good chase. We aren't even doing that when we kick it away.

 

[TVH11]

Well i think one positive to come out of the last few months is the mike phillips suspension. Hopefully now we'll have a scrum half that can actually pass, and maybe our backs won't be so flat and crap (yes i was very inventive with my description )

 

[Peat]

Warren Gatland isn't the problem.
He spends of fraction of the season with the players, yet gets slated for all problems.
Rob Howley is the one I want to see go.
He is the attacking coach- what attack? Shane Williams and George North is our only attack.

Whose fault is it thought if you've got a coach who's continually failing to deliver as part of the set up? I'd agree the attack is the big issue, its become too predictable, but personally I feel Gatland has to bear some responsibility for that.

Who would you like to see as Attack coach for Wales? Also, if its not fair to slate Gatland because of how little time he gets with the players, then how comes its fair to go after Howley who surely suffers from the same problem?

 

[antipodean]

Whose fault is it thought if you've got a coach who's continually failing to deliver as part of the set up?

Perhaps he is doing the best he can with the cattle he has at his disposal.

 

[Falvey]

I might get slated for this but why not look at Nigel Davies as an attack coach? The scarlets have played some scintillating rugby at times this season. I do believe however that changing any of the coaching set-up just before a world cup would be ludicrous (even though the wru seem to make a habit of it) and that it is something that should be looked at in the aftermath.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I might get slated for this but why not look at Nigel Davies as an attack coach? The scarlets have played some scintillating rugby at times this season. I do believe however that changing any of the coaching set-up just before a world cup would be ludicrous (even though the wru seem to make a habit of it) and that it is something that should be looked at in the aftermath.

Nigel Davies was terrible for Wales along with Gareth Jenkins. Not a fan of him to be honest. Doing a decent job with the Scarlets mind.

 

[Draggs]

Whose fault is it thought if you've got a coach who's continually failing to deliver as part of the set up? I'd agree the attack is the big issue, its become too predictable, but personally I feel Gatland has to bear some responsibility for that.

Who would you like to see as Attack coach for Wales? Also, if its not fair to slate Gatland because of how little time he gets with the players, then how comes its fair to go after Howley who surely suffers from the same problem?

Because our of all aspects, our attack is the worst.
Defence isn't too bad, and our forwards are improving.

I'd like to see Jonathan Davies as attack coach. He would call it the way it is (WRU wouldn't want that) and his league background would add another viewpoint.
I think Darren Edwards will be involved in a few years, if he does a good job with the Dragons. Lets face it, anything is better than Dai Young or Scott Johnson.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Because our of all aspects, our attack is the worst.
Defence isn't too bad, and our forwards are improving.

I'd like to see Jonathan Davies as attack coach. He would call it the way it is (WRU wouldn't want that) and his league background would add another viewpoint.
I think Darren Edwards will be involved in a few years, if he does a good job with the Dragons. Lets face it, anything is better than Dai Young or Scott Johnson.

Wow Dai has fallen from grace only a season or so ago he was talked as a possible candidate and I think I remember yourself saying he was not bad a coach ... how times have changed. Dai is not a bad coach, has brought through a number of youngsters who have gone onto play for Wales for the Blues. Sadly for him his career has stagnated at the Blues.