Wallabies and All Black stars want South Africa out of Super Rugby

[TRF_heineken]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/wall...ne-rugby/541f6a7e-df50-4bfe-bd8f-5b9a00ad029e

So this article has been making headlines in South Africa the past 2 days.

According to this article Michael Hooper and Sam Cane and a few other players have had online meetings to discuss a way of getting South Africa out of Super Rugby.

What bothers me about this article, is that it seems like the discussions was that Japan and Argentina are still going to be part of the tournament should they get their wish.

 

[unrated]

If the reports are true and not over sensationalized then let's negotiate with the Pro 14 in earnest. Play playoff/relegation matches with the bottom ranked pro 14 sides to earn our entry.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/wall...ne-rugby/541f6a7e-df50-4bfe-bd8f-5b9a00ad029e

So this article has been making headlines in South Africa the past 2 days.

According to this article Michael Hooper and Sam Cane and a few other players have had online meetings to discuss a way of getting South Africa out of Super Rugby.

What bothers me about this article, is that it seems like the discussions was that Japan and Argentina are still going to be part of the tournament should they get their wish.

we've obviously talked in the other thread Heinekin so you know my thoughts

but two points

1) how does this get "leaked"...if its just high level players, i cant imagine one of them jumping off the phone and calling the paper
2) players dont decide this stuff
3) not a single quote i saw

If "true" i imagine someone has asked Hooper something like

"do you and the other senior players talking to your NZ counterparts?" - "yeah"
"do you talk about the shape of the comp? maybe about speculation of a NZ Aus comp?" - "we talk about all kinds of stuff"

and if completely true, not surprised by the Japan inclusion, loads of kiwis and aussies playing there, lots play in the top league in our "off season"

 

[TRF_heineken]

If the reports are true and not over sensationalized then let's negotiate with the Pro 14 in earnest. Play playoff/relegation matches with the bottom ranked pro 14 sides to earn our entry.

I think that SANZAAR needs to convene a meeting with ARU, NZRU, SARU, JRU and UAR and have some frank discussions as to why players are even being allowed to have such discussions in the first place, and if the Union's were aware of these discussions, did the Union ask them to have these meetings.

we've obviously talked in the other thread Heinekin so you know my thoughts

but two points

1) how does this get "leaked"...if its just high level players, i cant imagine one of them jumping off the phone and calling the paper
2) players dont decide this stuff

If "true" i imagine someone has asked Hooper something like

"do you and the other senior players talking to your NZ counterparts?" - "yeah"
"do you talk about the shape of the comp? maybe about speculation of a NZ Aus comp?" - "we talk about all kinds of stuff"

To be perfectly honest, that is more the type of answers I'd expect from Sam Cane.

Hooper, I'm not to sure about, he's a arrogant and cocky SOB and have the stones to leak such info. Just like info were leaked to the media during the RWC about the dissent and disarray in the Wallaby camp.

For all we know, someone from the media, sat in while this meeting was held.

If this was false, then why have nobody from the Australian or New Zealand camp come forward to deny the report.

2 days without rebuttle???

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I think that SANZAAR needs to convene a meeting with ARU, NZRU, SARU, JRU and UAR and have some frank discussions as to why players are even being allowed to have such discussions in the first place, and if the Union's were aware of these discussions, did the Union ask them to have these meetings.



To be perfectly honest, that is more the type of answers I'd expect from Sam Cane.

Hooper, I'm not to sure about, he's a arrogant and cocky SOB and have the stones to leak such info. Just like info were leaked to the media during the RWC about the dissent and disarray in the Wallaby camp.

For all we know, someone from the media, sat in while this meeting was held.

If this was false, then why have nobody from the Australian or New Zealand camp come forward to deny the report.

2 days without rebuttle???

unions cant stop players talking to players from other countries and cant stop them talking about what the possible future shape of the comp looks like and cant stop them having preference on that

i'd say they havent said anything because its just sounds like mad internet speculation, i see thats a Aus news source but i havent seen it anywhere else, went looking for it on "stuff" and nothing

bit of a storm in a tea cup, even if true...so what?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

interesting, google searched "Sam Cane" and "news" and found this link...looks like it was reported but has since been taken down in nz, maybe because its untrue

 

[TRF_heineken]

Here are some links I found about this:

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Sup...rs-want-sa-out-of-super-rugby-report-20200526
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...y/news-story/064635e36dbe9793f0b2bbffb739ca02

Now both of these reports say nearly exactly the same thing.

What is interesting to note is this article:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...uper-rugby-restarts-loom-20200507-p54qtj.html

Which has nothing sinister about it. But it mentions the players who have been having online conferences.

Now if we but these articles together, it would suggest that NZ and Aus players consisting of Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, Matt Toomua, Damien Fitzpatrick, Aaron Smith, Scott Barrett and Sam Whitelock have been in discussions for a whole month now. And during one of these meetings there were talks about getting rid of South Africa.

Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. The question is rather, were they have this discussion as an OTT discussion, or was it a main point of discussion and something they will take to their administrators to seriously consider.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Here are some links I found about this:

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Sup...rs-want-sa-out-of-super-rugby-report-20200526
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...y/news-story/064635e36dbe9793f0b2bbffb739ca02

Now both of these reports say nearly exactly the same thing.

What is interesting to note is this article:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...uper-rugby-restarts-loom-20200507-p54qtj.html

Which has nothing sinister about it. But it mentions the players who have been having online conferences.

Now if we but these articles together, it would suggest that NZ and Aus players consisting of Sam Cane, Michael Hooper, Matt Toomua, Damien Fitzpatrick, Aaron Smith, Scott Barrett and Sam Whitelock have been in discussions for a whole month now. And during one of these meetings there were talks about getting rid of South Africa.

Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. The question is rather, were they have this discussion as an OTT discussion, or was it a main point of discussion and something they will take to their administrators to seriously consider.

none of those are NZ sources and the last one specifically says the discussion "to discuss opportunities to work together and combine their competitions amid the coronavirus shutdown", there has been lots of talk about travel between NZ and Aus opening up long before "normal" international travel and it says it was one 90 min call, not ongoing discussions for a month

I really think you're drawing some tenuous conclusions from these articles...but, if they are true, so what? they're always doing reviews and tuff, thats how they come up with all the different formats we've seen so far, NZU is currently doing a full review f the Rugby in NZ and what will look like in the future...and thats actually publicly announced rather than "news" speculation

and Damien Fitzpatrick isn't even a regular starter for the Tah's let alone a Wallaby...the whole call just sounds like a "whos free to do a feelgood, we're in lockdown but still communicating" story

OTT? i only know that as meaning Over The Top but i dont see how that works in context

 

[TRF_heineken]

none of those are NZ sources and the last one specifically says the discussion "to discuss opportunities to work together and combine their competitions amid the coronavirus shutdown", there has been lots of talk about travel between NZ and Aus opening up long before "normal" international travel and it says it was one 90 min call, not ongoing discussions for a month

I really think you're drawing some tenuous conclusions from these articles...but, if they are true, so what? they're always doing reviews and tuff, thats how they come up with all the different formats we've seen so far, NZU is currently doing a full review f the Rugby in NZ and what will look like in the future...and thats actually publicly announced rather than "news" speculation

and Damien Fitzpatrick isn't even a regular starter for the Tah's let alone a Wallaby...the whole call just sounds like a "whos free to do a feelgood, we're in lockdown but still communicating" story

OTT? i only know that as meaning Over The Top but i dont see how that works in context

I meant this as an exaggeration, hyperbole, OTT.

The Sydney Morning Herald article was published on the 7th of May, and the other articles were published the past couple of days.

So yeah, the possibility is there that first meeting was just that, and the guys involved in that meeting just sat in for that meeting. The possibility is also there that some of those guys, had meetings after that initial meeting, and talked about other things like what was mentioned in the other articles.

I'm not saying that it's all true or not. I have nothing better to do at the moment when it comes to sport, so why not talk about the possible discussions players have in secret and their plan to make the Bledisloe Cup something that matters again?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I'm not saying that it's all true or not. I have nothing better to do at the moment when it comes to sport, so why not talk about the possible discussions players have in secret and their plan to make the Bledisloe Cup something that matters again?

**** i miss sport.....spend 15 minutes yesterday watching all of Ben Smiths Tries for the All Blacks on youtube...his last two are classics

 

[TRF_heineken]

**** i miss sport.....spend 15 minutes yesterday watching all of Ben Smiths Tries for the All Blacks on youtube...his last two are classics

I watched Squidge's videos on youtube yesterday about how SA won the World Cup and the Final. It was really interesting to see how he looked at certain areas of the Boks, that I didn't even notice.

But yeah, before we go too far off topic. Nothing much have happened after the articles were published, except for a few other media outlets also distributing the same story.

 

[mdaclarke]

Pro 18 here we come (only days after CVC get involved)

I hope it isn't true but I fear that if CVC get their foot in the door they will try to steal the South African Teams to expand Pro 14 to Pro 18

Would love to see South Africa in both the 7 nations and the Rugby Championship though

 

[FNS]

This is true now. SA/Jags out. NZ and Aus are going to play a separate tourny till 2021 then it will reviewed.

For Jags basically means its over the good players will go to Europe once the league starts again...probably a B team will play in some tournament in SA.

 

[unrated]

Dont believe too much of the media stories on this. Too much speculation and little official sources, its a core pillar of credible journalism, anything else is opinion. They have no sport to report on so the conspiracy theories start. Even Journalism teams that I respected and guess still respect like Rob Houwing and the Sport 24 team has disappointed me with some of their reporting, talking about the alleged Cane- Hooper meeting as a confirmed fact.

With that said here is my opinions

• Super rugby will go ahead as planned next year
• I will never accept SA leaving Super rugby before we can dominate it on a regular basis, if we leave while losing it sends the wrong message
• Sharks has unfinished business in Super rugby
• Jaguares will be fine and they will compete in Super rugby 2021

if we leave Super rugby

• I hope we at least stay in Rugby Championship
• Hope we get to join a champions cup, what would a champions cup be without the WC
• form close ties with British and Irish unions to convince them to curb French hedgemony in rugby union decision making circles.

 

[TheOvalBall]

It makes sense to leave. And tours should return. Tours to OZ and NZ.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

This is true now. SA/Jags out. NZ and Aus are going to play a separate tourny till 2021 then it will reviewed.

For Jags basically means its over the good players will go to Europe once the league starts again...probably a B team will play in some tournament in SA.

link to any kind of official statement?...anything?

 

[TRF_heineken]

link to any kind of official statement?...anything?

The one I can find online is this one: https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/sa-franchises-to-head-up-north-to-join-pro14-20200531

But, it' s more like an opinion piece based on another article in our Local Afrikaans Sunday Newspaper, the Rapport.

But yeah, essentially it seems like the attraction to go North with the amount of money the teams will get, along with the Australasian groups of people not wanting us anymore, this looks more and more like it's going to happen.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I hope that SA teams get included in the Heineken cup I feel it would add to both competitions, especially the challenge cup.
Whilst I do love the European feel of the competitions it just doesn't make sense having SA in the pro 14 but not in the European cup games.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

it just doesn't make sense having SA in the pro 14

Agreed - though I'd do the opposite and remove the SA sides and bin off the terrible conference system.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I hope that SA teams get included in the Heineken cup I feel it would add to both competitions, especially the challenge cup.
Whilst I do love the European feel of the competitions it just doesn't make sense having SA in the pro 14 but not in the European cup games.

I think the only reason why we got involved with the pro 14 than other tournaments, was because out of the 3 options available, being the Pro 14, Guinness Premiership and the French top 14, the Pro 14 was the only tournament involving more than 1 country even though it's seen as a domestic league...