• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Warren Gatland to coach 2021 Lions "Agreed in principle"

The_Blindside

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
6,930
Reaction score
1,474
Country Flag

Hong Kong

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

Well, given gatlands 0 and 8 record in super rugby Aotearoa games, he could do with a good coach, one who has a 4 and 0 record in super rugby competitions

Yes, but test match rugby is different to Super rugby. Test match rugby and Lions tests is a whole different level. Am sure Gatland is still getting used to coaching Super rugby level and club level rugby after his time with Wales.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,004,308
Reaction score
8,840
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
615
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Yes, but test match rugby is different to Super rugby. Test match rugby and Lions tests is a whole different level. Am sure Gatland is still getting used to coaching Super rugby level and club level rugby after his time with Wales.
Sure, but after watching the chiefs this year I started seeing evidence of what folk on here complain about regarding gatland, as he took the most creative, free spirited, attacking side, drained them of their soul, resulting in a team that couldn’t create tries or breaks to save themselves. This wasn’t just a bunch of new players (there were new players, to be fair, mostly in the forwards) with no experience who gatland doesn’t know how to coach, these were experienced and creative geniuses like brad Weber, Damian McKenzie, and Anton lienert brown. The latter was playing like Jamie Roberts (yes, that’s a bad thing).

Gatland has a successful record but I think it is very important he has the right assistants with him, because his strengths probably lie more in the environmental, cultural, and other management aspects, rather than the hands on technical coaching.

I also think he is good at getting players to dig in and play hard for each other, which is potentially the most important thing in high anxiety test matches, but he may not be so good at instilling the high levels of confidence required for attacking rugby.
 

The Alpha Bro

Fat Boi
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
14,335
Reaction score
4,461
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

Well, given gatlands 0 and 8 record in super rugby Aotearoa games, he could do with a good coach, one who has a 4 and 0 record in super rugby competitions
And Lancaster is already in a more prestigious set up and any coach's wet dream so it's best for everyone really.
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
6,567
Reaction score
2,542
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

I think taking a Kiwi coach with no coaching experience with Lions players and then expecting them to properly gel with them in a very short space of time and getting them to play in a way that would be foreign to them will not work. I think the rest of the Lions coaching staff need to be coaching in Lions nations with players who will be in the Lions.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,004,308
Reaction score
8,840
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

It's been so nice not having to see Gatland in the press since went back to NZ

Can we get a petition going to have him removed from the lions role so we never have to see or hear from him again?
 

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
18,228
Reaction score
3,504
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

I would love to see him not pick any premiership players.
Have fun with that Gatland.

Almost like the Lions maybe needed to work with the prem a bit more instead of just saying
4k6bqw.jpg
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
615
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

I would love to see him not pick any premiership players.
Have fun with that Gatland.

Almost like the Lions maybe needed to work with the prem a bit more instead of just saying
4k6bqw.jpg
Why do you say that? the article says they have been talking to the prem but the Prem hasn’t budged. And It doesn’t seem unreasonable To ask that players be allowed to be released after their premiership is already over, ie they didn’t make the final. The players would surely want that.

seems like the prem just want to try and take advantage of their contractual rights in order to get the lions to give them a payout when any sense of human decency toward the players they contract would mean they would just allow them to be released despite the contract as it actually had no effect in the prem itself. I can Understand them not wanting to Bring the final forward, but not releasing players who aren’t in the final seems like a money grabbing exercise.
 

Tigs Man

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
18,228
Reaction score
3,504
Country Flag

Puerto Rico

Club or Nation

Wigan

Why do you say that? the article says they have been talking to the prem but the Prem hasn’t budged. And It doesn’t seem unreasonable To ask that players be allowed to be released after their premiership is already over, ie they didn’t make the final. The players would surely want that.

seems like the prem just want to try and take advantage of their contractual rights in order to get the lions to give them a payout when any sense of human decency toward the players they contract would mean they would just allow them to be released despite the contract as it actually had no effect in the prem itself. I can Understand them not wanting to Bring the final forward, but not releasing players who aren’t in the final seems like a money grabbing exercise.

It's not been a recent thing Gatland and Prem rugby have clashed over the lions since he's been in charge.
 

Tallshort

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
5,903
Reaction score
711
Country Flag

Yugoslavia

Club or Nation

Nottingham

Why do you say that? the article says they have been talking to the prem but the Prem hasn’t budged. And It doesn’t seem unreasonable To ask that players be allowed to be released after their premiership is already over, ie they didn’t make the final. The players would surely want that.

seems like the prem just want to try and take advantage of their contractual rights in order to get the lions to give them a payout when any sense of human decency toward the players they contract would mean they would just allow them to be released despite the contract as it actually had no effect in the prem itself. I can Understand them not wanting to Bring the final forward, but not releasing players who aren’t in the final seems like a money grabbing exercise.
Perhaps it is a money grabbing exercise but the Lions makes a **** load of money and the clubs are risking their assets to make that money. Its business and I don't see why the clubs shouldn't push there luck
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
6,567
Reaction score
2,542
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Why do you say that? the article says they have been talking to the prem but the Prem hasn’t budged. And It doesn’t seem unreasonable To ask that players be allowed to be released after their premiership is already over, ie they didn’t make the final. The players would surely want that.

seems like the prem just want to try and take advantage of their contractual rights in order to get the lions to give them a payout when any sense of human decency toward the players they contract would mean they would just allow them to be released despite the contract as it actually had no effect in the prem itself. I can Understand them not wanting to Bring the final forward, but not releasing players who aren’t in the final seems like a money grabbing exercise.
Likewise Gatland could accept English players missing one warmup, hell it's not like a premiership final is going to leave them undercooked or anything... If he is willing to not include English players from whatever the 2 best English clubs will be at the time (likely Exeter and A.N.Other) then he is shooting himself in the foot and likely was just looking for an excuse.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
615
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Perhaps it is a money grabbing exercise but the Lions makes a **** load of money and the clubs are risking their assets to make that money. Its business and I don't see why the clubs shouldn't push there luck
But I would say They are hardly risking their assets. If a player that didn’t make the final plays against Japan they are at the same risk as someone who plays the final. Sure there are more players being risked but it’s not a big risk.

And the reason they should risk their assets, if you wanted to argue that is the case, is because it’s low risk and it is in the interest of their assets - I.e. the players want it.

Likewise Gatland could accept English players missing one warmup, hell it's not like a premiership final is going to leave them undercooked or anything... If he is willing to not include English players from whatever the 2 best English clubs will be at the time (likely Exeter and A.N.Other) then he is shooting himself in the foot and likely was just looking for an excuse.
I think you missed the point. He isn’t talking about the players in the final missing out, he is talking about the players who didn’t play the final not being released for the final week.
It's not been a recent thing Gatland and Prem rugby have clashed over the lions since he's been in charge.
Right, I didn’t have any historical context.
I certainly found it hypocritical how in one sentence he has a dig at the prem for being difficult to deal with and in the next sentence says the lions and prem should stop having digs at each other and just work it out.
 
Last edited:

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,516
Reaction score
714
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

Can someone fill me in on this. Does Sarries lads be excluded from this squibble as they won't be Prem Rugby.
 

Tallshort

International
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 15, 2011
Messages
5,903
Reaction score
711
Country Flag

Yugoslavia

Club or Nation

Nottingham

Can someone fill me in on this. Does Sarries lads be excluded from this squibble as they won't be Prem Rugby.
Suppose it depends on the championship schedule.
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
6,567
Reaction score
2,542
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

I think you missed the point. He isn’t talking about the players in the final missing out, he is talking about the players who didn’t play the final not being released for the final week.

He IS talking about players in the final missing out. His criteria was players who could not attend the warm up game against Japan risked not being in the Lions, that includes all the premiership finalists.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,494
Reaction score
615
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

He IS talking about players in the final missing out. His criteria was players who could not attend the warm up game against Japan risked not being in the Lions, that includes all the premiership finalists.
Well he was talking about two different things, and my post Which you were responding to wasn’t talking about the one you are talking about. One is the issue of the final, and him wanting it to be brought forward, the other is about players not being available during finals week and that one is a problem if the prem doesn’t bring the final forward.

I agree That if the prem don’t budge in the scheduling of the final that he should Still pick the players who played in the final, but I don’t agree that the prem should hold non finalist players back during the final week.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,777
Reaction score
1,346
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

I think Gatland is just being stupid saying this. It's not like the Lions will arrive in SA and immediately play the tests. There's going to be more than enough matches for him to test things out. So what if the Premiership players misses a warm-up match against Japan outside of a test window??

And even if he has a camp the week before in Wales, that shouldn't be held against the players. He can still have his camp while the players also still have time to be with their club preparing for the final. The Springboks have had these camps on many occasions, which usually starts on a Sunday and ends on Tuesday, giving the players more than enough time to still go back to their club and prepare.
 

Latest posts

Top