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What is wrong with French Rugby?

Highland Shaun

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Its as simple as the title suggests what is wrong with French Rugby because not long ago they were very good but now they are dire?

Is it the French system, lack of quality, poor coaching by Brunel or something else?

And finally, IF they sack Brunel then who is next, Ibanez, Pelous, Jake White or someone else?
 

bushytop

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Its as simple as the title suggests what is wrong with French Rugby because not long ago they were very good but now they are dire?

Is it the French system, lack of quality, poor coaching by Brunel or something else?

And finally, IF they sack Brunel then who is next, Ibanez, Pelous, Jake White or someone else?
I’ve heard from pro’s who have appeared on various podcasts that the French coaching at club level as well as test level is severely lacking from the top down. Things as simple as when to train, when to rest and when (& what) to eat are all amateur hour.

Then you have world class youngsters who are unable to get any rugby at club level as the teams are filled with foreign mercs, prioritising size over skills and endurance, the power of the clubs far and away outweighing the power of the national union... then there’s the French psyche which is a mystery to us all, including the French.

My advise would be to find someone like Joe Schmidt (therefore probably a NZer) PAY the man and let him change EVERYTHING... the whole game nationwide, not just the senior test side.
 

mdaclarke

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It reminds me of the English Premier League in Association Football. All the money and foreign talent is coming in at the expense of the national team.
 

Tallshort

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They are not fit enough and they don't know how they want to play.

They can run any side ragged in open play but don't have the structure to capitalise on it.

Also apart from Parra and Picamole none of the players seem to give a ****.
 

ragerancher

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Also apart from Parra and Picamole none of the players seem to give a ****.
This, there seems to be zero pride in playing for the country. I can imagine French players just sticking out their bottom lip, shrugging and going "c'est la vie" before wandering off away from the rest of the team to go home and drink some wine after a loss.
 

The Alpha Bro

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I don't think fitness is an issue, they're strong in European club rugby.

There's no consistency in their selection, their players play too much club rugby to be able to perform internationally with any consistency and they stack their team with players from mid table top 14 sides. As a result the players don't buy into it.
 

The_Blindside

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Definitely consistency in selection. Their tight head prop, lock, flankers, centre pair and back 3 seem to change every game. How is the team going to gel not knowing key positions change from one match to another? It’s the first time I have seen their half back combination of Parra and Lopez remain two games in a row.
 

TRF_heineken

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But is it really France playing though? Seems to me more like the United Nations.

Perhaps they are showing us the long term effect of giving caps to other nation's rejected players who couldn't make the cut in their own country...
 

living sacrifice

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When Haskell and Palmer were playing in France I watched an interview where they said most of their French team mates ate croissants fir breakfast and still smoked!!!!

I think they are just behind the curve when it comes to be elite athletes.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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Perhaps they are showing us the long term effect of giving caps to other nation's rejected players who couldn't make the cut in their own country...
That's nonsense.
First, hardly all the people who play for countries other than the one where they were born and had their first nationality from are rejects.
Second, rejects or not is irrelevant. If they are better than the local born and raised, they should bring the national team's level up.
Third, france is hardly unique in that aspect yet they are the only ones affected by it?
 

Tallshort

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But is it really France playing though? Seems to me more like the United Nations.

Perhaps they are showing us the long term effect of giving caps to other nation's rejected players who couldn't make the cut in their own country...
Who were just beaten by a team with a similar multi national make up
 
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mdaclarke

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But is it really France playing though? Seems to me more like the United Nations.

Perhaps they are showing us the long term effect of giving caps to other nation's rejected players who couldn't make the cut in their own country...
Agreed with the exception of the pacific islanders if players like Paul Willemse were good enough they'd be springboks. You will never win anything as South Africa B.

England tried it in Cricket a few years ago!
 

TRF_heineken

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That's nonsense.
First, hardly all the people who play for countries other than the one where they were born and had their first nationality from are rejects.
Second, rejects or not is irrelevant. If they are better than the local born and raised, they should bring the national team's level up.
Third, france is hardly unique in that aspect yet they are the only ones affected by it?
Is it really?

There is no way you are going to convince me that Antonie Claasen is a better rugby player than that beast of a man they had playing no. 8 for the U/20's last year, I think his name is Jordan??

And if we look at Paul Willemse, I think everyone would agree that RG Snyman, Eben Etzebeth and Pieter-Steph Du Toit are all better than Willemse...

Agreed with the exception of the pacific islanders if players like Paul Willemse were good enough they'd be springboks. You will never win anything as South Africa B.

England tried it in Cricket a few years ago!

England is still trying that with Cricket, and look how well it's going there in the West Indies...

Anyways, I'm sure a lot will agree with me, and a lot won't. And it's all good, it's just how I see it based on the SA players being selected for foreign countries...
 

The Alpha Bro

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Classen and Willemse have 8 caps between them, they're hardly the root cause of anything. Part of the random and erratic selection from mid table teams and nothing more.

22/23 French players yesterday were born in France (1 in the French territory of New Caledonia included) they're hardly trying to build their team from South Africans. Spedding and Kockott haven't played in years, neither has Classen I don't think and Willemse is there covering injuries.
 
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Tallshort

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Classen and Willemse have 8 caps between them, they're hardly the root cause of anything. Part of the random and erratic selection from mid table teams and nothing more.

22/23 French players yesterday were bringing in France (1 in the French territory of New Caledonia included) they're hardly trying to build their team from South Africans. Spedding and Kockott haven't played in years, neither has Classen I don't think and Willemse is there covering injuries.
Stop using facts!
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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Is it really?

There is no way you are going to convince me that Antonie Claasen is a better rugby player than that beast of a man they had playing no. 8 for the U/20's last year, I think his name is Jordan??

And if we look at Paul Willemse, I think everyone would agree that RG Snyman, Eben Etzebeth and Pieter-Steph Du Toit are all better than Willemse...
Yes, really.

You are cherry picking examples to prove a hasty generalization. That's not it works.

There are a couple of ways to provide evidence of the contrary, but the easiest and most powerful method is to see if, as you claim, the problem lies with the "rejects", then that problem should be also seen in other places that use them.
Those "rejects" appear to be having quite a positive impact on, say, Ireland.

When evidence contradicts your hypothesis it is time to come up with another one.
 

TRF_heineken

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Yes, really.

You are cherry picking examples to prove a hasty generalization. That's not it works.

There are a couple of ways to provide evidence of the contrary, but the easiest and most powerful method is to see if, as you claim, the problem lies with the "rejects", then that problem should be also seen in other places that use them.
Those "rejects" appear to be having quite a positive impact on, say, Ireland.

When evidence contradicts your hypothesis it is time to come up with another one.
Now you're cherry picking too... And on several occasions we've mentioned that CJ Stander is the exception to the rule.

But okay, no need to digress this any further.
 

mdaclarke

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Now you're cherry picking too... And on several occasions we've mentioned that CJ Stander is the exception to the rule.

But okay, no need to digress this any further.
With the exception of CJ Stander I can;'t think of any other Northern Hemisphere Bok who would be a regular starter for the Springboks and is therefore a big loss to the Boks.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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Now you're cherry picking too... And on several occasions we've mentioned that CJ Stander is the exception to the rule.

But okay, no need to digress this any further.
Of course i am cherry picking. The reason is it was you, and not me, who came up with the generalization.
Generalizations need an infinite number of cases to be proven and only one counterexample to be disproven. That's why cherry picking works one way.

And i was thinking more along the lines of Aki than CJ Stander. Aki would never, ever, make it to the ABs. CJ Stander would probably give any springbok a run for their money.
 
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