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What the Springbok team might look like for the B&I Lions tour (if it happens)

TRF_heineken

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Im one of the people who does not see Mostert in the enforcer role, maybe more of an extra loosie, maybe a mix of a loosie and a victor matfield lite style lineout option. But not as an enforcer.

Actually not a fan of Mostert at all. Good workrate.... What else?

JJ is probably another full season away from Springbok selection so maybe 2022. Get him involved sure, that would be good for his development.

Jason Jenkins does not have the class, sorry. Thats why he leaves for overseas. Wont be a long term Springbok. This is harsh yes but this is just my feelings towards him, and for that matter i feel the same about our lock pairing at the Sharks in Ruben van Heerden and Hyron Andrews. I dont want to come across so harsh, and there is more variables to it, but they are IMO headed for a path such as that of Chris van Zyl.
I think Jenkins is one of those guys that gets better the older he gets. Sure he's maybe not where Etzebeth is/was. But he has been progressing very well. And he left for overseas to get a bit more money to help a family member with medical fees.

I agree with you on Van Heerden and Andrews though.
 

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Isn’t Pollard touch and go from an injury POV?

Jantjies or Goosen at 10 is a very different proposition.
 

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Isn’t Pollard touch and go from an injury POV?

Jantjies or Goosen at 10 is a very different proposition.
Don't throw away Morne Steyn, he's been in stellar form for the Bulls this year.
 

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Given the limitations for travel between the NH and SH atm - do you think this will have an effect on selection?
The lads based in the SH will have a lot more opportunity to train as a unit than guys based up north, but then that'll have to be balanced against real game time, with the guys in the NH playing significantly more competitive rugby over the past two seasons

Obviously it won't affect guys like Faf, Lood/Snyman (if fit) etc. but fringe guys like maybe the du Preez twins or the Wiese brothers (I'm not saying they should be walking in to the Boks or anything, just using them as examples of non(/non-regular) Boks who are in fine form in the North) - do you think the match fitness/sharpness will boost their chances more than the travel bans will hinder them?

I think I read that they're looking to have some NH Springbok training camps in the run up to the series, but that was a while ago and things seem to be changing week on week let alone month on month atm
 

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Given the limitations for travel between the NH and SH atm - do you think this will have an effect on selection?
The lads based in the SH will have a lot more opportunity to train as a unit than guys based up north, but then that'll have to be balanced against real game time, with the guys in the NH playing significantly more competitive rugby over the past two seasons

Obviously it won't affect guys like Faf, Lood/Snyman (if fit) etc. but fringe guys like maybe the du Preez twins or the Wiese brothers (I'm not saying they should be walking in to the Boks or anything, just using them as examples of non(/non-regular) Boks who are in fine form in the North) - do you think the match fitness/sharpness will boost their chances more than the travel bans will hinder them?

I think I read that they're looking to have some NH Springbok training camps in the run up to the series, but that was a while ago and things seem to be changing week on week let alone month on month atm

I think you are right that it will disadvantaged uncapped players, not sure it will disadvantage players already one Rassie's radar.

Given the pandemic I think the that the 2019 WC winning 23 (non retired) will have a strong hold on their shirts and someone will have to play outstandingly well to usurp them. This may have been different it the Boks had had a number of tests to try out new players and combos.
 

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Given the limitations for travel between the NH and SH atm - do you think this will have an effect on selection?
The lads based in the SH will have a lot more opportunity to train as a unit than guys based up north, but then that'll have to be balanced against real game time, with the guys in the NH playing significantly more competitive rugby over the past two seasons

Obviously it won't affect guys like Faf, Lood/Snyman (if fit) etc. but fringe guys like maybe the du Preez twins or the Wiese brothers (I'm not saying they should be walking in to the Boks or anything, just using them as examples of non(/non-regular) Boks who are in fine form in the North) - do you think the match fitness/sharpness will boost their chances more than the travel bans will hinder them?

I think I read that they're looking to have some NH Springbok training camps in the run up to the series, but that was a while ago and things seem to be changing week on week let alone month on month atm
Felix Jones is in charge of the training camp(s) for the NH based players as he's currently in Ireland.

I don't know exactly how the training camps will be conducted, but it seems like it's only players playing in England, and France that's currently up for consideration, with De Allende being the only fit player in Ireland, with RG Snyman only returning to fitness now.

I guess Jones will conduct some sort of camp per country, and will be in the same scope as the ones Nienaber is doing down here, the issue will most probably be availability while the players are playing every weekend and doesn't have "off" days atm.
 

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I am now of the firm belief that The Springbok management should let their Springboks play for their franchises against the Lions. If not now then never because we have played little rugby the last two years. It might be beneficial for the Boks getting some of their Springboks aquinted with the Lions in a different enviroment. The lions cant get used to playing the Boks by playing the Sharks but the Boks can get used to playing the lions by playing for the Sharks/Bulls/Stormers etc against the Lions.

Nienaber can keep like a core group of 10-12 in camp. The rest go and support your franchises before meeting up with the Boks again after your game.
 

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I am now of the firm belief that The Springbok management should let their Springboks play for their franchises against the Lions. If not now then never because we have played little rugby the last two years. It might be beneficial for the Boks getting some of their Springboks aquinted with the Lions in a different enviroment. The lions cant get used to playing the Boks by playing the Sharks but the Boks can get used to playing the lions by playing for the Sharks/Bulls/Stormers etc against the Lions.

Nienaber can keep like a core group of 10-12 in camp. The rest go and support your franchises before meeting up with the Boks again after your game.
It's a double edge sword that.

On one hand, the extra match-time might help, on the other hand, it could cause injuries as these matches tend to be brutal affairs.

But because we had the Super Rugby unlocked, then the Currie Cup, and a lot later than usual, then had a month's rest and then the training matches and now the Rainbow cup, the players all played relatively the same amount of matches as they would have during a normal Super Rugby tournament.
 

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I want our franchises to beat the Lions too. We need our Springboks to get the job done. The New Zealanders took this approach and it worked for the Blues. How nice would a clean sweep of the Lions be.

Its gonna be tough beating the Lions with a Currie Cup side.
 

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I want our franchises to beat the Lions too. We need our Springboks to get the job done. The New Zealanders took this approach and it worked for the Blues. How nice would a clean sweep of the Lions be.

Its gonna be tough beating the Lions with a Currie Cup side.

I think the teams facing the Lions first, can have a go including some Springboks, as there will be enough time for them to join the Bok-squad for preparation.

But I think the Bulls, who play the Lions last, won't be able to. The warm-up matches is usually used to give those guys who didn't make the cut for the Boks, an opportunity to play against them and be part of the tour. Also, there is a real drive by the clubs to try and beat an international team.

We will also have an invitational team and the "A" side playing against the Lions. Which will in all likelihood be the fringe players having a go.
 

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Yes, it would be criminal for the local guys that might form part of the match day 23 not to jog out for their franchizes they have played so little rugby. I can understand keeping a core of the overseas based players out though. Actually I don't believe the overseas based players can "legally" play for our franchizes so that point is moot.

Joining the discussion late but I couldn't resist a good old XV. My nailed on players in bold.

Front row
Pretty easy
1 Kitshoff
2/16 Mbonambi / Marx
/ Van der Merwe
3/17/18 Nyakane / Malherbe / Koch
At 3 it makes little enough difference though I have them in order of personal preference. Will surely be one of those 3? Even if the likes of Wilco Louw, Oosthuizen, TdT, Sadie etc are world class. #blessed
There are some hyped youngsters on both sides of the scrum and at hooker but TBH this tour and the circumstances surrounding it makes it difficult to see those guys come in.
Who is in behind Kitshoff? I suppose it is logical that our test depth at 1 will be limited behind Kitshoff with Beast having done duty there since the previous Lions tour. Probably Ox Nche or Nyakane shifting?
I don't see our hookers being anyone other than the above trio even if there certainly are options.

Lock stocks.
Who of Etzebeth, Snyman and De Jager are available? Let me just leave them out of contention I suppose. TBH I would not put Sous in the discussion here. I think we have options. We could even put PSDT in the lock mix there are so many options at 7 given Kolisi and Vermeulen are shoe-ins at 6 and 8.
Overseas we have Jacques du Plessis, Elstadt, Jenkins, Wiese and the Du Preez bros. I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of players we export so many locks and loosies. That said I don't see uncapped overseas based players making the cut so I'm going to look locally. Nortje and Schickerling are my favorite options here but very similar players. Van der Mescht for me is too young and though fast for a big man lacks balance IMO. Moerat I have doubts about. I don't think he has 80 minutes in him but my bolter for the Bokke is Le Roux Roets. I only to cause a few bruises and supercharge an already imposing scrum. A last hurrah from the bone collector too boot? LOL, taking off Roets only to bring on Willem Alberts for 30 minutes..
4 Roets
5 PSDT
Here I think my personal picks and preferences won't be near the mark but there they are.
19 Shickerling

Loose
I'm certainly not going to list names here, just listing my team. BUT, can you imagine the breakdown should Van Staaden come on for Kolisi alongside Coetzee, Vermeulen and Marx/Mbonambi! Even De Allende, Am, Kitshoff and PSDT has been known to be strong over the ball. No tries for the Lions if not long range.
6 Kolisi
7 Marcell Coetzee
8 Vermeulen
20 Marco van Staaden

Halves
9 De Klerk
10 Morne Steyn
21 Hershel Jantjies
22 Elton Jantjies
I suppose De Klerk is a sure starter? Though with Pollard out might that come into consideration? Different 9 for different 10 I mean. Morne Steyn I did not think I'd list him here come 2021 BUT the man has been in sublime form to tell the truth. That and he is helped by asterisks next to the names of all other options. Rassie has in the past stood by Elton Jantjies so I expect he will be next in line.

Centers
Any reason to doubt the De Allende / Am combination? Not that I can see. I was always a big Serfontein fan but he has been too long in the wilderness and for me is an unknown factor. Kriel? I've been impressed with Louw from the Sharks when fit and Cornal Hendricks has been AMAZING! But there are only two spots.
12 De Allende
13 Am


Outside backs
Is Mapimpi fit? If not one of Nkosi or Hendricks to slot in. Too late to gie Duhan van der Merwe a cap I suppose. A Lions tour might not be the place to blood him but Fassi over Le Roux is a call I am happy with. Gelant was a star for the Stormers but I don;t think he is going to be fit in time?
11 Mapimpi
14 Kolbe

15 Fassi

Utility back
One of the toughest choices for me in behind who starts at 10 with Pollard out and at the locks with our raft of injuries. Considering the disruptions at lock and 10 and my going for a bolter at15 I've opted for experience and versatility on the bench
23 F Steyn

Condensed:
1 Kitshoff / Nyakane
2 Mbonambi / Marx
3 Malherbe / Koch
4 Roets / Shickerling
5 Du Toit
6 Kolisi / Van Staaden
7 Coetzee
8 Vermeulen
9 De Klerk / Jantjies
10 Steyn / Jantjies
11 Mapimpi
12 De Allende
13 Am
14 Kolbe
15 Fassi / Steyn
 
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Pollard will be fit last time i checked
 

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Yes, it would be criminal for the local guys that might form part of the match day 23 not to jog out for their franchizes they have played so little rugby. I can understand keeping a core of the overseas based players out though. Actually I don't believe the overseas based players can "legally" play for our franchizes so that point is moot.

Joining the discussion late but I couldn't resist a good old XV. My nailed on players in bold.

Front row
Pretty easy
1 Kitshoff
2/16 Mbonambi / Marx
/ Van der Merwe
3/17/18 Nyakane / Malherbe / Koch
At 3 it makes little enough difference though I have them in order of personal preference. Will surely be one of those 3? Even if the likes of Wilco Louw, Oosthuizen, TdT, Sadie etc are world class. #blessed
There are some hyped youngsters on both sides of the scrum and at hooker but TBH this tour and the circumstances surrounding it makes it difficult to see those guys come in.
Who is in behind Kitshoff? I suppose it is logical that our test depth at 1 will be limited behind Kitshoff with Beast having done duty there since the previous Lions tour. Probably Ox Nche or Nyakane shifting?
I don't see our hookers being anyone other than the above trio even if there certainly are options.

Lock stocks.
Who of Etzebeth, Snyman and De Jager are available? Let me just leave them out of contention I suppose. TBH I would not put Sous in the discussion here. I think we have options. We could even put PSDT in the lock mix there are so many options at 7 given Kolisi and Vermeulen are shoe-ins at 6 and 8.
Overseas we have Jacques du Plessis, Elstadt, Jenkins, Wiese and the Du Preez bros. I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton of players we export so many locks and loosies. That said I don't see uncapped overseas based players making the cut so I'm going to look locally. Nortje and Schickerling are my favorite options here but very similar players. Van der Mescht for me is too young and though fast for a big man lacks balance IMO. Moerat I have doubts about. I don't think he has 80 minutes in him but my bolter for the Bokke is Le Roux Roets. I only to cause a few bruises and supercharge an already imposing scrum. A last hurrah from the bone collector too boot? LOL, taking off Roets only to bring on Willem Alberts for 30 minutes..
4 Roets
5 PSDT
Here I think my personal picks and preferences won't be near the mark but there they are.
19 Shickerling

Loose
I'm certainly not going to list names here, just listing my team. BUT, can you imagine the breakdown should Van Staaden come on for Kolisi alongside Coetzee, Vermeulen and Marx/Mbonambi! Even De Allende, Am, Kitshoff and PSDT has been known to be strong over the ball. No tries for the Lions if not long range.
6 Kolisi
7 Marcell Coetzee
8 Vermeulen
20 Marco van Staaden

Halves
9 De Klerk
10 Morne Steyn
21 Hershel Jantjies
22 Elton Jantjies
I suppose De Klerk is a sure starter? Though with Pollard out might that come into consideration? Different 9 for different 10 I mean. Morne Steyn I did not think I'd list him here come 2021 BUT the man has been in sublime form to tell the truth. That and he is helped by asterisks next to the names of all other options. Rassie has in the past stood by Elton Jantjies so I expect he will be next in line.

Centers
Any reason to doubt the De Allende / Am combination? Not that I can see. I was always a big Serfontein fan but he has been too long in the wilderness and for me is an unknown factor. Kriel? I've been impressed with Louw from the Sharks when fit and Cornal Hendricks has been AMAZING! But there are only two spots.
12 De Allende
13 Am


Outside backs
Is Mapimpi fit? If not one of Nkosi or Hendricks to slot in. Too late to gie Duhan van der Merwe a cap I suppose. A Lions tour might not be the place to blood him but Fassi over Le Roux is a call I am happy with. Gelant was a star for the Stormers but I don;t think he is going to be fit in time?
11 Mapimpi
14 Kolbe

15 Fassi

Utility back
One of the toughest choices for me in behind who starts at 10 with Pollard out and at the locks with our raft of injuries. Considering the disruptions at lock and 10 and my going for a bolter at15 I've opted for experience and versatility on the bench
23 F Steyn
I think we are all in agreement here with the most of the picks.

Loose head:
Kitshoff is definitely the first choice.
Thomas Du Toit, Ox Nche, Sti Sithole, Lizo Gqoboka, Jacques van Rooyen

Hooker:
Bongi Mbonambi, Malcolm Marx, Scarra Ntubeni, Dylan Richardson

Tight Head:
Frans Malherbe, Vincent Koch, Wilco Louw, Carlu Sadie, Trevor Nyakane

I think Lock is our biggest concern:
Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth will most probably likely starters. Lood and RG is still not available.
JD Shickerling, Ruan Nortje, Jason Jenkins, Roets, Jacques Du Plessis, and perhaps even PSDT might be the next choices.
I would also not put it past Rassie and Nienaber to have Elrich Louw slot in here, and rotate with PSDT at flanker.

Loose forwards:
Duane Vermeulen, Siya Kolisi, Marcell Coetzee, Marco van Staden, Jasper Wiese, Du Preez twins.

Scrumhalf:
Faf De Klerk, Cobus Reinach, Herschel Jantjies, Sanele Nohamba

Fly Half:
Handre Pollard, Morne Steyn, Damian Willemse, Curwin Bosch

Centre:
Damian De Allende, Lukhanyo Am, Cornall Hendricks, Stedman Gans, Frans Steyn, Jan Serfontein, Jesse Kriel

Wings:
Makazole Mapimpi, Cheslin Kolbe, Sbu Nkosi, Kurt-Lee Arendse, Raymond Rhule, Dyllan Leyds

Fullback:
Apelele Fassi, Warrick Gelant, Willie Le Roux, James Verity-Am, Damian Willemse, Curwin Bosch

These are the guys I'd pick. I'm sure there's a bunch of guys I didn't even think about that will also be in contention.

I just think there has been a plan going on behind the scenes, and the recent movement of players back to our shores in positions we might have an issue, makes me wonder if this was planned moves?
 

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Ah, nice. If Etzebeth and Pollard are both in contention then all of a sudden I actually see us as favourites despite maybe needing a bit of game to get going.
 

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Who of Etzebeth, Snyman and De Jager are available?
De Jager is expected to be fit by the Lions tour, however the NH season will have ended by the time he's fit so he won't have played in a while - maybe he'll feature in one of the warm up games (Invitational XV? Springbok A?) to gauge his fitness for the tests?
When he came back from his previous injury he looked like he'd not missed a game - really hit the ground running. Apparently he's still beasting himself in his rehab (obviously within reason/with limitations) and is still heavily involved in training and team planning etc. at Sale despite the offer of having the rest of the season off/going back to RSA: He actually sent his wife and kid home and moved in with Faf to focus fully on his recovery for the Lions tour

I think Snyman is in the same boat - very close to return, but not quite there yet (and he's been out a lot longer than Lood)
 

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Marcell back for the Boks is massive. If fit, he's a one man wrecking machine, and his ability over the ball has come on leaps and bounds.
Him +Vermeulen is genuinely scary
 

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De Jager is expected to be fit by the Lions tour, however the NH season will have ended by the time he's fit so he won't have played in a while - maybe he'll feature in one of the warm up games (Invitational XV? Springbok A?) to gauge his fitness for the tests?
When he came back from his previous injury he looked like he'd not missed a game - really hit the ground running. Apparently he's still beasting himself in his rehab (obviously within reason/with limitations) and is still heavily involved in training and team planning etc. at Sale despite the offer of having the rest of the season off/going back to RSA: He actually sent his wife and kid home and moved in with Faf to focus fully on his recovery for the Lions tour

I think Snyman is in the same boat - very close to return, but not quite there yet (and he's been out a lot longer than Lood)

Didn’t he threaten the surgeon prior to his surgery by saying this better be the best job you’ve ever done or something like that?
 

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Ah, cheers for the feedback, guys. Genuinely excited for this!

I've heard rumors that there is speak of the whole tour being hosted in Cape Town with crowds as CT has the lowest numbers (though its climbing again..).
 

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