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Where the SA teams stand heading back to cross-nation matches

saulan

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I was initially going to post this in a response in the "Where are the SH posters thread" but decided it was better to place it here to maybe get some discussion on the SA teams and also provide some vision to the NH members of how the SA teams are shaping up:

The Stormers have gotten through the 5 out of 6 local derbies the best, 3 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss (but that loss is really disappointing, just shows how much things can change in 2.5 months). Two and a half months agoi, the Lions were looking like the best SA team and now are the undisputed worst SA team. I think it looks fairly even amongst the other and probably is this:
1) Stormers
2) Sharks = Bulls
4) Lions

Bulls just lost to the Sharks at home... but it was with 14 players from the 10th minute mark and it was only by 7 points, which is crazy. Sharks also had a yellow and then a much later red, but you'd expect them to put them away with the amount of talent on their books (especially going to be more interesting for them likely getting Etzebeth and getting Neil Powell from the SA Sevens as their DoR). Their coaching just seems to be the problem, given what they have in terms of player resources they should be miles ahead.

Bulls have a mix of young talent and experience and I expect them to be quite competitive for the rest of the season. At the start of the season I expected them to be the best and were probably a bit unlucky this past weekend.

Lions just aren't a finished product. They have glimpses of brilliance but can't finish their moves off or get the phases to get the points. They might click later on in the season, but just aren't there yet. Ran both the Sharks and the Bulls close though in one of their games (but got pretty smashed against the same Bulls team the week before and the Stormers this past weekend).

Stormers are definitely the surprise package and looking very exciting. There has been so much turmoil happening in the backrooms, so its pretty incredible they've been able to put such a strong team together of players that work well together, but maybe aren't the biggest names. Usually with the Stormers its a great set of forwards and some pretty one dimensional backline play... Now with our player transfers out to other teams in the last year (Etzebeth, Kolisi, Mbonambi, Notshe, PSDT) and injuries (Malherbe, Moerat, Roos), we are probably now more of an average pack (carried by Orie, Kitshoff and old timer Deon Fourie, also old timer Brok Harris doing a great job filling in for Malherbe) with the most exciting backline (Libbok, Willemse and Gelant as playmakers starting is a revelation, with a strong finisher in Senatla as well as strong performances recently from both Ruhan Nel and Dan Du Plessis).

I expect it to be a bit tough when they play their one off games in winter Europe in two weeks time, but I am anticipating three out of four wins there (Connacht v Stormers, Zebre vs Bulls, Benetton vs Sharks, Leinster vs Lions), especially with some internationals missing for Six Nations duties. Only loss I am expecting is the Lions. I can't see them being able to stand up to Leinster where they currently seem to be.
 
Saw the Etzebeth news this morning. That's exactly what we wanted out of the URC. Great news if it gets over the line.

Toulon has confirmed he is going and the Sharks seems an imminent move. I was a bit worried Toulon fans would be looking at it as great annoyance at Etzebeth for leaving after not really achieving anything/being injured a bit... but it actually seems like they are all incredibly ****** off with their president that they are losing one of their best players because of personal reasons (with the implication being that Etzebeth is leaving because the president publicly bad mouthed him and called him a handicap to the team).
 
The 'winter' here is relatively mild now that the SA sides shouldn't be too nervous. It is also so wet this winter that might play into the hands of SA packs. The high winds are probably going to be an issue though. I don't fancy any SA side on a windy night in Galway.

Do the Sharks now have the most funds then? I had a perception of the Lions being financially the weakest and the other three being quite similar?
 
The 'winter' here is relatively mild now that the SA sides shouldn't be too nervous. It is also so wet this winter that might play into the hands of SA packs. The high winds are probably going to be an issue though. I don't fancy any SA side on a windy night in Galway.

These players are coming from playing in 25-30 degree heat and most of them are used to winter not dropping below 5-10 degrees, so even a mild winter will be an adjustment. Those conditions will probably suit the Lions the best (pretty strong forward pack performance in terms of scrumming from what I've seen), but less so the Stormers or Sharks who have a bit more reliance on running rugby.

Do the Sharks now have the most funds then? I had a perception of the Lions being financially the weakest and the other three being quite similar?

Sharks definitely the most cash-strapped. They got majority ownership from MVM holdings last January and since then they've been acquiring Springboks (e.g. Kolisi, Mbonambi, now Etzebeth potentially). Lions and Bulls are relatively the same funding wise... and the Stormers are definitely the worst and are an utter mess... but somehow they are playing well.
 
I think that is the only hiccough in the potential move, the level of salary reduction that Eben would be willing to accept.
 
I think that is the only hiccough in the potential move, the level of salary reduction that Eben would be willing to accept.

I think he's in a place now of I've earned R18m a year for 2-3 years (not including Springbok pay and sponsorships), now money is less important and he wants to be closer to home. Durban will bring him a still decentish pay check, short trips back home, familiar weather, language and environment and also getting him back to his best buddy Kolisi.
 
Probably open up more off field opportunities as well - easier to do photoshoots or appearances for random sponsors when you're in country than abroad

I've seen SA players leave to prem for SA because they wanted to set up businesses etc. back home while still playing
 
I for one am excited about the potential signing of Etzebeth at the Sharks, who would not be ? Possibly the best player in the world at last know form. But happier because it confirmed my maybe overly optimistic belief that we are investing now with the intention of being very competitive in the Champions cup next year.

The budget is increasing, we are signing Springboks to supplement a team stacked with backline Internationals, and the board seems to be talking all the right things and signing the right people. They are pushing the strength in diversity culture and I see colour campaigns plus the affiliation with Roc Nation is showing good progress with the brand development.

I am also in favour of our current coaching setup, a head coach who is locally bred, becoming head coach of the senior side after coaching the age-grade teams. The Irish and Georgian influence in the assistant staff, with Warren Whitely, seems like it could lead to innovative ideas.

Behind the scenes, squad depth, coaching, finance, building for the future everything seems to be in place.

But they keep on underperforming when compared to the expectations. Losing games that should not be lost and capitulating on the field too many times. Consistency has never been a strong point at the KZN union.

Neil Powel being announced as the DOR got me thinking, about what dynamic it will play with Everitt now that Powell becomes a superior when the plan was for him to be a defence coach initially.


How awkward must his presence have been at this week's training? Especially, considering Everitt must have been told of the Sharks board's intention while Powell was spectating training.
The photo from the Sharks Instagram with both coaches seems telling.
Screenshot_20220213_204322_com.instagram.android_edit_79368576335284.jpg

I think this is a great move for the Union, hope this helps Everitt achieve his own goals, I am not fond of the idea of firing our head coaches especially when they have come through the youth ranks coaching age-grade teams. Unfortunately, there is a growing number of Sharks fans on social media calling for his sacking but I like to think they are probably either Insane and does not understand the values or they are the fairweather fans.

The Du Preez twins also seem to be in contention for a return which would be a game-changer IMO.

For those that don't know, Neil Powel is highly regarded for what he is doing at the Blitzboks and the structures that he has put in place. It will be very exciting to see what elements he can bring to 15 man rugby.

CEO Eduard Coetzee had this to say:
"The URC coach cannot be responsible for coaching the team in that competition and also overseeing the alignment of culture and playing template across all levels of our structures. Sean is a good coach and this appointment will free him up to focus more on his role of ensuring that we are successful in the URC and put ourselves in a position to reach our ultimate goal of doing well in the European Champions Cup."

TLDR: Technically the Sharks should be the strongest of the SA bunch as of now but they are probably tied for second at current form.
 
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I for one am excited about the potential signing of Etzebeth at the Sharks, who would not be ? Possibly the best player in the world at last know form. But happier because it confirmed my maybe overly optimistic belief that we are investing now with the intention of being very competitive in the Champions cup next year.

The budget is increasing, we are signing Springboks to supplement a team stacked with backline Internationals, and the board seems to be talking all the right things and signing the right people. They are pushing the strength in diversity culture and I see colour campaigns plus the affiliation with Roc Nation is showing good progress with the brand development.

I am also in favour of our current coaching setup, a head coach who is locally bred, becoming head coach of the senior side after coaching the age-grade teams. The Irish and Georgian influence in the assistant staff, with Warren Whitely, seems like it could lead to innovative ideas.

Behind the scenes, squad depth, coaching, finance, building for the future everything seems to be in place.

But they keep on underperforming when compared to the expectations. Losing games that should not be lost and capitulating on the field too many times. Consistency has never been a strong point at the KZN union.

Neil Powel being announced as the DOR got me thinking, about what dynamic it will play with Everitt now that Powell becomes a superior when the plan was for him to be a defence coach initially.


How awkward must his presence have been at this week's training? Especially, considering Everitt must have been told of the Sharks board's intention while Powell was spectating training.
The photo from the Sharks Instagram with both coaches seems telling.
View attachment 13283

I think this is a great move for the Union, hope this helps Everitt achieve his own goals, I am not fond of the idea of firing our head coaches especially when they have come through the youth ranks coaching age-grade teams. Unfortunately, there is a growing number of Sharks fans on social media calling for his sacking but I like to think they are probably either Insane and does not understand the values or they are the fairweather fans.

The Du Preez twins also seem to be in contention for a return which would be a game-changer IMO.

For those that don't know, Neil Powel is highly regarded for what he is doing at the Blitzboks and the structures that he has put in place. It will be very exciting to see what elements he can bring to 15 man rugby.

CEO Eduard Coetzee had this to say:
"The URC coach cannot be responsible for coaching the team in that competition and also overseeing the alignment of culture and playing template across all levels of our structures. Sean is a good coach and this appointment will free him up to focus more on his role of ensuring that we are successful in the URC and put ourselves in a position to reach our ultimate goal of doing well in the European Champions Cup."

TLDR: Technically the Sharks should be the strongest of the SA bunch as of now but they are probably tied for second at current form.

That is a very interesting coaching situation. I note Powels is 10 years Everitt's junior so I'm going to guess he has ambitions of his own on the coaching front. I would suggest Everitt is in last chance saloon and will be given until the end of the season. If he has expressed that back office type distractions (due to a lack of GM) have impacted on his performance then this is a good step to test that theory and make an informed decision at the end of the season.

From what I remember the Sharks were flying and top of the log in 2020 before the season was cancelled. Was that under Everitt? If so, I'd be much more inclined to give him a greater length of time to prove himself.

Also, dare I ask but is any of the Sharks non-white talent in the first team developed locally or are Sharks (and others) still quite reliant on imports from Eastern Cape, Cheetahs etc while their own youths move through the age grades?
 
That is a very interesting coaching situation. I note Powels is 10 years Everitt's junior so I'm going to guess he has ambitions of his own on the coaching front. I would suggest Everitt is in last chance saloon and will be given until the end of the season. If he has expressed that back office type distractions (due to a lack of GM) have impacted on his performance then this is a good step to test that theory and make an informed decision at the end of the season.

From what I remember the Sharks were flying and top of the log in 2020 before the season was cancelled. Was that under Everitt? If so, I'd be much more inclined to give him a greater length of time to prove himself.

Also, dare I ask but is any of the Sharks non-white talent in the first team developed locally or are Sharks (and others) still quite reliant on imports from Eastern Cape, Cheetahs etc while their own youths move through the age grades?
Mapimpi, AM, Kolisi, are Eastern Cape Imports. Fassi was schooled in the Eastern Cape and then developed at the Sharks youth academy. Nkosi is home grown and a Zulu whereas the eastern cape guys are ethnically Xhosa. Buthelezi is from Durban and Mchunu came from Pietermaritrzburg based Maritzburg College which is one of the main rugby talent feeders to the Sharks along with Kearsney and Glenwood.

The Eastern Cape has predominantly been Sharks territory the Kings has never been a viable concept. Its better if the two regions keep feeding one union.
 
The Eastern Cape has predominantly been Sharks territory the Kings has never been a viable concept. Its better if the two regions keep feeding one union.

I wouldn't say EC has predominantly been Sharks territory. There has been quite a bit of history of players coming down to EC to the Western Cape and played through school there (Notshe) or Uni (Kolisi, Catrikilis), but I would say it is generally split between those two regions rather than players heading from there to the highveld, for example.
 
I wouldn't say EC has predominantly been Sharks territory. There has been quite a bit of history of players coming down to EC to the Western Cape and played through school there (Notshe) or Uni (Kolisi, Catrikilis), but I would say it is generally split between those two regions rather than players heading from there to the highveld, for example.
You are probably correct, atleast in terms of player and talent movement.

From a support perspective, I have found it to be leaning towards KZN but maybe that also depends on how far North or South you go.
 
Eastern EC is KZN and Western Eastern Cape is Western Cape ITO support as far as I can tell. Player-wise its a bit of an even split but I see it as having shifted from EC players going to the Free State too them coming to the Western Cape and more recently I have felt a shift toward KZN.
 
A bit of insight into how the SA union are trying to retain some of their top talent by offering assistance in terms of how they may transition back into ordinary life when they hang up their boots.

 
Toulon has confirmed he is going and the Sharks seems an imminent move. I was a bit worried Toulon fans would be looking at it as great annoyance at Etzebeth for leaving after not really achieving anything/being injured a bit... but it actually seems like they are all incredibly ****** off with their president that they are losing one of their best players because of personal reasons (with the implication being that Etzebeth is leaving because the president publicly bad mouthed him and called him a handicap to the team).

Signing confirmed
 
The current Sharks team is starting to look a lot like a 201X Stormers side with signing Etzebeth. They only need to lure back from the overseas:
3 Koch or Louw
5 Shickerling
7 PSdT
8 Vermeulen
12 De Allende
14 Kolbe

We're keeping Kitshoff at least it looks like.
 

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