Which are the 2nd and 3rd direct opponents on the field?

[sifplay]

a) Irrelevant. If I say someone is smaller than another dude because they are shorter and lighter than them, it's a correct usage of the English language.

b) You're wrong in saying McCaw packs more meat. He has more muscle to his frame; he does not, in all probability, have more muscle altogether. And I'd put money on Vito being the stronger man.

c) Trying to argue there's no physical difference by using the biggest openside and the smallest blindside you can find is disingenuous as anything. Vito is still bigger, Kaino is even bigger than both, as will Luatua be in a couple of years, as is Brad Shields.

d) The fact that opensides are often more physically compact due to being shorter and stockier is a physical difference.

Ugm Ugm again

Pos EBF H-met W-met H-imp lbs st-lb Clb Fnam Player
=== === ===== ===== ===== ========= === ==== ======
p 6 644 202cm 130kg 6' 8" 287 20s 7 Btz Pelu Taele-Pavihi
p 6 636 187cm 119kg 6' 2" 262 18s10 Bru Ita. Vaea
p 6 619 194cm 120kg 6' 4" 265 18s13 XCh Jame Phillips
p 6 615 195cm 120kg 6' 5" 265 18s13 Mtp Mamu Gorgodze
p 6 609 192cm 117kg 6' 4" 258 18s 6 Osp Geor Stowers
p 6 606 198cm 120kg 6' 6" 265 18s13 XCh Dami Welch
p 6 601 193cm 116kg 6' 4" 256 18s 4 Stm Duan Vermuelen
p 6 599 192cm 115kg 6' 4" 254 18s 2 Blu Pete Saili
p 6 596 191cm 114kg 6' 3" 251 17s13 Btz Raph Lakafia
p 6 595 193cm 115kg 6' 4" 254 18s 2 XCh Davi Ewers
p 6 593 192cm 114kg 6' 4" 251 17s13 Mtp Alex Tulou
p 6 592 196cm 116kg 6' 5" 256 18s 4 Zeb Josh Sole
p 6 591 193cm 114kg 6' 4" 251 17s13 Qin Nick Easter
p 6 590 183cm 108kg 6' 0" 238 17s 0 Mun Sean Dougall
p 6 589 190cm 112kg 6' 3" 247 17s 9 Shk Jean Deysel
p 6 586 198cm 116kg 6' 6" 256 18s 4 LTg Ed.. Slater
p 6 585 193cm 113kg 6' 4" 249 17s11 SSh Andy Powell
p 6 585 188cm 110kg 6' 2" 243 17s 5 Qin Chri Robshaw
p 6 584 185cm 108kg 6' 1" 238 17s 0 BTr Robe Barbieri
p 6 582 196cm 114kg 6' 5" 251 17s13 Osp Jona Thomas
p 6 582 184cm 107kg 6' 0" 236 16s12 Cru Shan Christie
p 6 581 191cm 111kg 6' 3" 245 17s 7 Lns Rhys Ruddock
p 6 580 193cm 112kg 6' 4" 247 17s 9 GWa Jame Eddie
p 6 580 193cm 112kg 6' 4" 247 17s 9 Con Mike McCarthy
p 6 580 193cm 112kg 6' 4" 247 17s 9 Uls Step Ferris
p 6 579 195cm 113kg 6' 5" 249 17s11 Edi Davi Denton
p 6 579 190cm 110kg 6' 3" 243 17s 5 Edi Dimi Basilaia
p 6 578 185cm 107kg 6' 1" 236 16s12 Mun Tomm O`Donnell
p 6 577 196cm 113kg 6' 5" 249 17s11 RMo Bern Le Roux
p 6 577 196cm 113kg 6' 5" 249 17s11 Osp Ryan Jones
p 6 577 194cm 112kg 6' 4" 247 17s 9 Bul Jacq Potgieter
p 6 577 194cm 112kg 6' 4" 247 17s 9 Che Fran Uys
p 6 577 189cm 109kg 6' 2" 240 17s 2 CmA Elvi Vermuelen
p 6 576 198cm 114kg 6' 6" 251 17s13 Chf Ross Filipo
p 6 575 193cm 111kg 6' 4" 245 17s 7 Hur Faif Levave
p 6 575 193cm 111kg 6' 4" 245 17s 7 Stm Scha Burger
p 6 574 195cm 112kg 6' 5" 247 17s 9 Cas Pedr Wannenburg
p 6 574 188cm 108kg 6' 2" 238 17s 0 Mun CJ.. Stander
p 6 574 188cm 108kg 6' 2" 238 17s 0 CfB Luke Hamilton
p 6 574 188cm 108kg 6' 2" 238 17s 0 Lns Sean O`Brien
p 6 574 188cm 108kg 6' 2" 238 17s 0 Qin Maur Fa`asavalu
p 6 573 192cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 Btz Iman Harinordoquy
p 6 573 192cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 Wat Dave Dennis
p 6 573 185cm 106kg 6' 1" 234 16s10 Hln Jake Paringatai
p 6 573 185cm 106kg 6' 1" 234 16s10 Nth Ben. Nutley
p 6 572 187cm 107kg 6' 2" 236 16s12 Cru Rich McCaw
p 6 571 196cm 112kg 6' 5" 247 17s 9 Con Geor Naoupu
p 6 571 191cm 109kg 6' 3" 240 17s 2 Mun Jame Coughlan
p 6 571 191cm 109kg 6' 3" 240 17s 2 LTg Jord Crane
p 6 570 193cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 CfB Andr Pretorius
p 6 570 193cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 LTg Bret Deacon
p 6 570 193cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 Stm Nick Koster
p 6 570 186cm 106kg 6' 1" 234 16s10 XCh Jame Scaysbrook
p 6 569 188cm 107kg 6' 2" 236 16s12 Osp Tom. Smith
p 6 568 192cm 109kg 6' 4" 240 17s 2 Con John Muldoon
p 6 568 192cm 109kg 6' 4" 240 17s 2 Hur Vict Vito
p 6 568 185cm 105kg 6' 1" 231 16s 7 LTg Rich Thorpe
p 6 568 185cm 105kg 6' 1" 231 16s 7 Cas Ibra Diarra
p 6 568 183cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 SSh Hend Fourie
p 6 568 183cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 RMo John Leo`o
p 6 567 194cm 110kg 6' 4" 243 17s 5 Che Phil Van Der Walt
p 6 567 187cm 106kg 6' 2" 234 16s10 Wat Pat. McCutchen
p 6 566 198cm 112kg 6' 6" 247 17s 9 Hln Jarr Hoeata
p 6 566 189cm 107kg 6' 2" 236 16s12 Rbl Jarr Saffy
p 6 566 182cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 WFc Chri Alcock
p 6 566 182cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 Zeb Fili Ferrarini
p 6 565 193cm 109kg 6' 4" 240 17s 2 Mun Bill Holland
p 6 565 193cm 109kg 6' 4" 240 17s 2 Lns Kevi McLaughlin
p 6 565 191cm 108kg 6' 3" 238 17s 0 Che Just Downey
p 6 565 191cm 108kg 6' 3" 238 17s 0 XCh Kai. Horstmann
p 6 565 191cm 108kg 6' 3" 238 17s 0 Mun Pete O`Mahony
p 6 565 191cm 108kg 6' 3" 238 17s 0 Nth Phil Dowson
p 6 565 191cm 108kg 6' 3" 238 17s 0 Red Eddi Quirk
p 6 565 184cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 Che Boom Prinsloo
p 6 565 184cm 104kg 6' 0" 229 16s 5 Bru Davi Pocock
p 6 564 195cm 110kg 6' 5" 243 17s 5 Chf Nick Crosswell
p 6 564 188cm 106kg 6' 2" 234 16s10 Tln Chri Masoe
p 6 564 188cm 106kg 6' 2" 234 16s10 Sar Jacq Burger
p 6 563 183cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 Hln John Hardie
p 6 562 194cm 109kg 6' 4" 240 17s 2 XCh Tom. Hayes
p 6 562 185cm 104kg 6' 1" 229 16s 5 Lns Shan Jennings
p 6 562 185cm 104kg 6' 1" 229 16s 5 Cru Matt Todd
p 6 562 178cm 100kg 5'10" 220 15s10 Osp Sam. Lewis
p 6 561 196cm 110kg 6' 5" 243 17s 5 Uls Robb Diack
p 6 560 193cm 108kg 6' 4" 238 17s 0 BTr Ales Zanni
p 6 560 193cm 108kg 6' 4" 238 17s 0 Qin Tom. Guest
p 6 560 193cm 108kg 6' 4" 238 17s 0 Nth Tom. Wood
p 6 560 193cm 108kg 6' 4" 238 17s 0 Nth Calu Clark
p 6 560 191cm 107kg 6' 3" 236 16s12 Uls Chri Henry
p 6 560 184cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 BTr Simo Favaro
p 6 560 184cm 103kg 6' 0" 227 16s 3 Stm Niza Carr
p 6 559 188cm 105kg 6' 2" 231 16s 7 BTr Marc Filippucci
p 6 559 188cm 105kg 6' 2" 231 16s 7 Uls Mike McComish
p 6 558 190cm 106kg 6' 3" 234 16s10 Tln Pier Gunther
p 6 558 190cm 106kg 6' 3" 234 16s10 Cru Geor Whitelock
p 6 558 181cm 101kg 5'11" 223 15s13 Che Hein Brussow
p 6 558 181cm 101kg 5'11" 223 15s13 Hur Karl Lowe
p 6 557 185cm 103kg 6' 1" 227 16s 3 WFc Matt Hodgson
p 6 557 183cm 102kg 6' 0" 225 16s 1 Zeb Maur Bergamasco
p 6 557 183cm 102kg 6' 0" 225 16s 1 Sca John Edwards
p 6 556 198cm 110kg 6' 6" 243 17s 5 Che Walt Vermeulen
p 6 556 198cm 110kg 6' 6" 243 17s 5 BTr Vale Bernabo
p 6 556 198cm 110kg 6' 6" 243 17s 5 Bru Scot Fardy
p 6 556 196cm 109kg 6' 5" 240 17s 2 Cru Jimm Tupou
p 6 556 196cm 109kg 6' 5" 240 17s 2 Mtp Remy Martin
p 6 556 196cm 109kg 6' 5" 240 17s 2 Qin Joe. Trayfoot
p 6 556 189cm 105kg 6' 2" 231 16s 7 Che Piet Labuschagne
p 6 556 180cm 100kg 5'11" 220 15s10 Che Manu Schoeman
p 6 556 180cm 100kg 5'11" 220 15s10 Bul Deon Stegmann
p 6 555 191cm 106kg 6' 3" 234 16s10 Cas Anto Claassen
p 6 555 191cm 106kg 6' 3" 234 16s10 Btz Tala Gray
p 6 555 182cm 101kg 6' 0" 223 15s13 Wat Mich Hooper
p 6 554 193cm 107kg 6' 4" 236 16s12 Bru Jord Smiler
p 6 554 193cm 107kg 6' 4" 236 16s12 GWa Angu Macdonald
p 6 554 193cm 107kg 6' 4" 236 16s12 Con TJ.. Anderson
p 6 554 186cm 103kg 6' 1" 227 16s 3 Sar Andy Saull
p 6 554 177cm 98 kg 5'10" 216 15s 6 Chf Mich Leitch
p 6 553 188cm 104kg 6' 2" 229 16s 5 XCh Tom. Johnson
p 6 552 192cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 WFc Ben. McCalman
p 6 552 183cm 101kg 6' 0" 223 15s13 Rbl Scot Fuglistaller
p 6 551 196cm 108kg 6' 5" 238 17s 0 BTr Dean Budd
p 6 551 185cm 102kg 6' 1" 225 16s 1 Hur Call Gibbins
p 6 551 185cm 102kg 6' 1" 225 16s 1 Qin Luke Wallace
p 6 550 191cm 105kg 6' 3" 231 16s 7 WFc Angu Cottrell
p 6 550 189cm 104kg 6' 2" 229 16s 5 Chf Sam. Cane
p 6 549 193cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 Nth GJ.. Van Velze
p 6 549 193cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 XCh Ben. White
p 6 549 193cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 Lns Domi Ryan
p 6 549 193cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 Sar Kell Brown
p 6 549 182cm 100kg 6' 0" 220 15s10 Cru Jord Taufua
p 6 549 182cm 100kg 6' 0" 220 15s10 Bru Colb Faingaa
p 6 549 175cm 96 kg 5' 9" 212 15s 2 Tln Stef Armitage
p 6 548 188cm 103kg 6' 2" 227 16s 3 SSh Mark Easter
p 6 548 188cm 103kg 6' 2" 227 16s 3 CmA Gerh Vosloo
p 6 548 188cm 103kg 6' 2" 227 16s 3 Con Eoin McKeon
p 6 548 188cm 103kg 6' 2" 227 16s 3 Hur Jack Lam
p 6 548 186cm 102kg 6' 1" 225 16s 1 Sar Nick Fenton-Wells
p 6 547 190cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 Cru Luke Whitelock
p 6 546 196cm 107kg 6' 5" 236 16s12 CfB Mike Paterson
p 6 546 194cm 106kg 6' 4" 234 16s10 Chf Matt Vant Leven
p 6 546 185cm 101kg 6' 1" 223 15s13 Mun Barr O`Mahony
p 6 546 185cm 101kg 6' 1" 223 15s13 Mun Nial Ronan
p 6 546 185cm 101kg 6' 1" 223 15s13 Blu Luke Braid
p 6 545 191cm 104kg 6' 3" 229 16s 5 Che Leon Karemaker
p 6 545 187cm 102kg 6' 2" 225 16s 1 Shk Luba Mtembu
p 6 544 182cm 99 kg 6' 0" 218 15s 8 Shk Jacq Botes
p 6 543 188cm 102kg 6' 2" 225 16s 1 Tls Sylv Nicolas
p 6 543 188cm 102kg 6' 2" 225 16s 1 Sar Will Fraser
p 6 543 184cm 100kg 6' 0" 220 15s10 Btz Beno Guyot
p 6 542 192cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 RMo Alva Galindo
p 6 542 192cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 RMo Anto Battut
p 6 542 190cm 103kg 6' 3" 227 16s 3 Bul Arno Botha
p 6 541 194cm 105kg 6' 4" 231 16s 7 Cas Jann Bornman
p 6 540 187cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Tls Thie Dusautoir
p 6 540 187cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Stm Siya Kolisi
p 6 540 187cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Chf Tane Latimer
p 6 539 193cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 Zeb Emil Caffini
p 6 539 193cm 104kg 6' 4" 229 16s 5 Osp Joe. Bearman
p 6 539 191cm 103kg 6' 3" 227 16s 3 Zeb Nico Cattina
p 6 539 180cm 97 kg 5'11" 214 15s 4 Uls Sean Doyle
p 6 539 180cm 97 kg 5'11" 214 15s 4 SSh Davi Seymour
p 6 539 180cm 97 kg 5'11" 214 15s 4 Qin Will Skinner
p 6 539 180cm 97 kg 5'11" 214 15s 4 Red Beau Robinson
p 6 539 178cm 96 kg 5'10" 212 15s 2 Con John O`Connor
p 6 538 186cm 100kg 6' 1" 220 15s10 Blu Bren O`Connor
p 6 537 190cm 102kg 6' 3" 225 16s 1 GWa John Barclay
p 6 537 190cm 102kg 6' 3" 225 16s 1 Bul Dewa Potgieter
p 6 537 188cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Btz Wenc Lauret
p 6 537 188cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Osp Just Tipuric
p 6 537 188cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Con Eogh Grace
p 6 537 188cm 101kg 6' 2" 223 15s13 Sar Jack Wray
p 6 536 196cm 105kg 6' 5" 231 16s 7 LTg Tom. Croft
p 6 534 191cm 102kg 6' 3" 225 16s 1 BTr Paul Derbyshire
p 6 533 180cm 96 kg 5'11" 212 15s 2 CfB Thom Young
p 6 531 192cm 102kg 6' 4" 225 16s 1 BTr Fran Minto
p 6 531 192cm 102kg 6' 4" 225 16s 1 Sca Crai Price
p 6 531 190cm 101kg 6' 3" 223 15s13 Sca Kier Murphy
p 6 531 188cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 Zeb Fili Cristiano
p 6 531 188cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 CfB Sam. Warburton
p 6 531 188cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 LTg Juli Salvi
p 6 531 188cm 100kg 6' 2" 220 15s10 Shk Keeg Daniel
p 6 530 198cm 105kg 6' 6" 231 16s 7 Tls Greg Lamboley
p 6 530 183cm 97 kg 6' 0" 214 15s 4 Edi Rodd Grant
p 6 530 181cm 96 kg 5'11" 212 15s 2 Sca Rich Pugh
p 6 529 185cm 98 kg 6' 1" 216 15s 6 Hur Alap Leiua
p 6 528 193cm 102kg 6' 4" 225 16s 1 Tln Juan Fernandez Lobbe
p 6 528 191cm 101kg 6' 3" 223 15s13 Btz Magn Lund
p 6 527 201cm 106kg 6' 7" 234 16s10 SSh Jame Gaskell
p 6 527 188cm 99 kg 6' 2" 218 15s 8 CfB Rory Watts-Jones
p 6 527 188cm 99 kg 6' 2" 218 15s 8 Uls Ali. Birch
p 6 526 196cm 103kg 6' 5" 227 16s 3 SSh Rich Vernon
p 6 526 192cm 101kg 6' 4" 223 15s13 CmA Juli Bonnaire
p 6 525 181cm 95 kg 5'11" 209 14s13 GWa Chri Fusaro
p 6 524 185cm 97 kg 6' 1" 214 15s 4 Edi Ross Rennie
p 6 523 193cm 101kg 6' 4" 223 15s13 CmA Alex Lapandry
p 6 522 184cm 96 kg 6' 0" 212 15s 2 Red Liam Gill
p 6 521 192cm 100kg 6' 4" 220 15s10 Tls Jean Bouilhou
p 6 521 188cm 98 kg 6' 2" 216 15s 6 Hln Tim. Boys
p 6 521 188cm 98 kg 6' 2" 216 15s 6 CmA Juli De Sousa Bardy
p 6 520 196cm 102kg 6' 5" 225 16s 1 Mun Dave O`Callaghan
p 6 519 187cm 97 kg 6' 2" 214 15s 4 XCh Joel Conlon
p 6 519 183cm 95 kg 6' 0" 209 14s13 Sca Dani Thomas
p 6 518 191cm 99 kg 6' 3" 218 15s 8 Mtp Fulg Ouedraogo
p 6 513 187cm 96 kg 6' 2" 212 15s 2 Tls Yann Nyanga
p 6 513 185cm 95 kg 6' 1" 209 14s13 CfB Josh Navidi
p 6 513 185cm 95 kg 6' 1" 209 14s13 Con Eoin Griffin
p 6 512 195cm 100kg 6' 5" 220 15s10 Zeb Nico Belardo
p 6 512 195cm 100kg 6' 5" 220 15s10 Sca Rob. McCusker
p 6 512 195cm 100kg 6' 5" 220 15s10 Che Davo Raubenheimer
p 6 512 193cm 99 kg 6' 4" 218 15s 8 Sca Josh Turnbull
p 6 510 198cm 101kg 6' 6" 223 15s13 Con Will Faloon
p 6 506 180cm 91 kg 5'11" 201 14s 5 SSh Will Bordill
p 6 505 188cm 95 kg 6' 2" 209 14s13 Hur Ardi Savea
p 6 494 192cm 95 kg 6' 4" 209 14s13 Cas Yann Caballero
p 6 494 188cm 93 kg 6' 2" 205 14s 9 Btz Tang Molcard
p 6 479 188cm 90 kg 6' 2" 198 14s 2 Sar Matt Hankin

And I said the French flankers are roughly the same size. Vito more power than McCaw? What are you smoking. 3 Aussie forwards even could not move him. The is a reason he is king of the breakdown and Vito is playing ITN and not test rugby.

Sif, have you not noticed who the Bok's first choice flankers are right now?

Yes they are called sledgehammers. No finesse with them just brute force. But Burger is training again.

 

[dullonien]

Yes again its a side of the scrum. The role will solely depend on the player. How many steals to top international jacklers make a game? 1 to 2. Only Australia gets wet dreams with things like pilfers and and a guy running around trying to steal ball for 80 these days. Other teams use any player for that you will see 2nd on the list for steals in the SR comp is a center.

Yes it's a side of the scrum, which in turn somewhat defines the role of a flanker. If you've got one quick player who's great on the ground, and links well, and a second flanker who's a bit slower, and a bit bigger, and does all a lot of the gritty work, then you're hardly going to play the quick guy at blindside and the other guy at openside. It simply wouldn't make sense.

So as I've said, with an explanation of exactly why, it's more than just which side of the scrum a flanker plays on.

There are always going to be exceptions, including those who can do a job on either flank. McCaw is a prime example, because he's an unbelievable player who has the physical attributes and the talent to do pretty much everything. McCaw could probably play at 8 as well. That's not always the case though, Martyn Williams for example was a very good openside, but would have been lost on the blindside. Croft has the pace to play on the openside, but he lacks the breakdown prowess and the link play.

A lot of teams put a big emphasis on the breakdown, and especially at trying to steal the ball. With defences as strong as they are now, turnover ball is the best ball to attack from, because the opposition defence is disorganised. So I'd say most international sides place an emphasis on getting a man in there to jackal, and this is an element of the game that suits the role of an openside, and fits well with the rest of his duties. The centres are often second highest, because people get isolated easily in midfield.

 

[sifplay]

Yes it's a side of the scrum, which in turn somewhat defines the role of a flanker. If you've got one quick player who's great on the ground, and links well, and a second flanker who's a bit slower, and a bit bigger, and does all a lot of the gritty work, then you're hardly going to play the quick guy at blindside and the other guy at openside. It simply wouldn't make sense.

So as I've said, with an explanation of exactly why, it's more than just which side of the scrum a flanker plays on.

There are always going to be exceptions, including those who can do a job on either flank. McCaw is a prime example, because he's an unbelievable player who has the physical attributes and the talent to do pretty much everything. McCaw could probably play at 8 as well. That's not always the case though, Martyn Williams for example was a very good openside, but would have been lost on the blindside. Croft has the pace to play on the openside, but he lacks the breakdown prowess and the link play.

A lot of teams put a big emphasis on the breakdown, and especially at trying to steal the ball. With defences as strong as they are now, turnover ball is the best ball to attack from, because the opposition defence is disorganised. So I'd say most international sides place an emphasis on getting a man in there to jackal, and this is an element of the game that suits the role of an openside, and fits well with the rest of his duties. The centres are often second highest, because people get isolated easily in midfield.

George Smith made the most steals in SR. It was 10 in 20 games. Set pieces and errors are the major source of tries. Wallabies struggle cause they go into games with no tactical kickers so they have to risk from inside their half more than most and end up making mistakes where it gets put on them. SA use the hookers to try and steal ruck ball at times. But then again we have used Erasmus as a play maker back in 2000 at times

Our openside is the 6 wbut if you look at our flankers they can play both sides. How effective a flanker is, is really much depending on how good the opposition are with cleaning the rucks. In 2009 it looked like Brussouw was getting the better of McCaw where in fact it was just SA had very good cleaners like Smith and Botha. So he had good protection. Once they got injured or were not there anymore he suddenly did not look that good. McCaw is a chameleon and over the years he have been able to adapt himself which makes him so good. He is now one of NZ best ball carriers.

But coming back to the original point the french just use two flankers and give them numbers. That is why they call them left and right. We will call them two opensides or whatever but in the end it depends on what the players is good at and how they play.

 

[big ginger 8]

So what I'm getting from this is that Sean Dougall is apparently "bigger" than Stephen Ferris the guy who coming up to the 2011 World Cup broke nearly every single lifting record within the Irish Squad?

Topless Stephen Ferris photo is obligatary.

http://balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/fez1.jpg
http://www.irishrugby.ie/images/news/SeanDougall2_run_Munstergeneralview12.jpg

 

[dasNdanger]

That's both informative and confusing at the same time!


das

 

[Peat]

I think the weight for Dougall is wrong tbh. It wouldn't be the biggest error in the list, what with Dougall not being a blindside to begin with, and it containing an outside-centre in it.

 

[j'nuh]

Yes it's a side of the scrum, which in turn somewhat defines the role of a flanker. If you've got one quick player who's great on the ground, and links well, and a second flanker who's a bit slower, and a bit bigger, and does all a lot of the gritty work, then you're hardly going to play the quick guy at blindside and the other guy at openside. It simply wouldn't make sense.

idk, if you want to attack down the blindside, or you want to close down a dangerous blindside runner or whatever.

Also worth pointing out that I think opensides are getting much bigger these days. In the past, opensides would have been smashed playing 8, but nowadays you've got a bunch that would or have managed fine eg Kvesic, Wood, Armitage, Warburton, O'Brien, Mccaw. I think that jackaling isn't enough as a specialist task any more, and they have to get involved with the physical side of the work of the pack, and it may or may not mean a slowing down of the position.

At the same time, 6s are also getting bigger and taller (perhaps because teams need more lineout options?) and now often interchange as 4s, eg Slater, Kruis, Garvey, Savage, King etc.

 

[Peat]

Not sure I'd agree with that j'nuh - Richard Hill started as a 7, was plenty big and could make a fist of 8. David Wallace could play 8. There have always been big opensides, and ball carrying has always been a strong trait amongst opensides. Out of your list, there's still only one guy I'd want playing 8 for me at test level

But, I do agree with you on the pace issue. Traditionally, people wanted the faster man on the openside to get into the loose. But the risk of a scrum-half sniping makes slow blindsides very inadvisable. Care's try against Connacht last year was a classic example of why you don't want it. Certainly up north, you start talking about the fastest flankers playing at the moment... Ferris? Croft? Shingler? Guest? Henderson? All blindsides. I'd say pace doesn't control where you play in the back-row, not at the moment; other qualities too. But pace might decide how far you can go.

 

[dullonien]

idk, if you want to attack down the blindside, or you want to close down a dangerous blindside runner or whatever.

Also worth pointing out that I think opensides are getting much bigger these days. In the past, opensides would have been smashed playing 8, but nowadays you've got a bunch that would or have managed fine eg Kvesic, Wood, Armitage, Warburton, O'Brien, Mccaw. I think that jackaling isn't enough as a specialist task any more, and they have to get involved with the physical side of the work of the pack, and it may or may not mean a slowing down of the position.

At the same time, 6s are also getting bigger and taller (perhaps because teams need more lineout options?) and now often interchange as 4s, eg Slater, Kruis, Garvey, Savage, King etc.

It'd be a bit too obvious to put the openside at blindside when you want to attack down the blindside channel, so sides are unlikely to switch their positions.

I suppose all players are getting bigger, not just the opensides, improved conditioning has enabled this. In most cases it doesn't impact on their core duties as an openside. Most of those you've named still do their core openside duties well.

 

[big ginger 8]

I think the weight for Dougall is wrong tbh. It wouldn't be the biggest error in the list, what with Dougall not being a blindside to begin with, and it containing an outside-centre in it.

I know I was exaggerating to make a point.

Plus using that method I'd be 20th on the list also ahead of Ferris. I wouldn't lift anything in the same region as him or presumably most of the same players.