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Who could defeat the AB in the years to come?

Da Grappla

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And I don't mean in spare test matches or inspired ones within the RC

The ABs have had become the NBA USA Dream Team of the 90s

The fighting is just about who is going to be the second

I look into the future and I struggle to see any real foe

SA is a watered down version of themselves. Of course they are a top contender in the world stage, a decaf SA is still ahead of most regular RWC nations. Racial quotas, poor management and a lack of charisma in almost every player that has came up in recent years. No more Bismarcks, De Villiers, Matfields or those monster and master back rows as the likes of Juan Smith, Vermeulen, Burger or Brussow. Spies had all the gifts but never truly delivered.

No brand new Habanas or Steyns in the horizon either.

Eben Etzebeth is the only one young player who is among the bests if not the best himself

Australia...Australia still suffers from being rugby union far behind other forms of football as league or aussie rules in terms of popularity. I've been told even soccer is more popular than union is. We can spect from them a new harvest of top class players, as they have in the making right now, mixed with very average ones. Top 5 nevertheles...but not a serious contender for the world hegemony

England is a little offtopic because this is the RC subforum, but anyway...we'll see what are they up to this autumm. They had everything and failed miserably in their own pitch last year...but we all saw their comeback in 2016.

What about Argentina?

In 2012 many forum members or rugby aficionados had it clear. Argentina didn't belong to the top tournament. But the've managed to defeat Australia and SA or getting them to a draw. The ABs still are an entirely different matter on another level. Nevertheless we watched Argentina facing, battling and going as equals against the ABs in New Zealand...for 55mins.

What could we expect from Argentina? They are a promising side. They are getting pro in Argentina in spite of the Jaguares' struggles last Super Rugby seasons.

Argentina has many a player non suitable to be called because they're playing for NH clubs.

What could accomplish a full force argentinean side?

Perhaps I'm partial to them because I'm a spaniard with a lot of family ties with many american countries, Argentina included...but I have to say it; before 2030, Argentina is the side who's gonna be the AB's main rival unless things start to change, for the good, in Australia and SA.

The trend now is Argentina going up up, improving each year, and SA&Australia going down
 
To be honest I don't see one of the Southern Hemisphere teams going past the All Blacks... Really the only team I can think of that stands a chance (small one) of taking over from them is England.

The Springboks are going to become worse and worse. They will eventually drop far down the rankings like our Cricket team.
 
Honestly, any of the top 6 countries behind NZ can beat us but they have to put their own house in order and then come out like men who won't take no for an answer.
England , Wallabies, Boks, Pumas, Dragons even the Irish and the French can all do it on their day, no question.
If the AB's take more hits like the one to Kaino, and those hits come on the experienced members of the pack in particular, forcing the management to blood debutantes etc, then bet your bottom dollar we will struggle, especially away from home.
We are only human and in that we are always capable of being beaten.
Injuries are the biggest threat, being beset by playing too many games that weaken the playing staff over time.
Rugby Union is a rough tough game and those playing at the top level take their fair share of knocks and as they mount up so players have to be rested, properly rested to get the necessary recharge to come back firing.
Nobody stays at the top of the heap for long and there is nothing like a top dog to make the underdogs fight all the harder to displace them.
This run by the AB's is a stone cold miracle but at some stage the good fortune and good planning will hit a hurdle and that hurdle is most likely a long injury list.
I don't even want to talk about it because it might jinx our run but this is what happens when you get deep into a competition and you have to travel then follow up with tours etc on top of a busy Super Rugby schedule and potential games for provinces.
Workload creates injuries.
Even doing everything correctly in regard to technique, warming up, warming down, extra stretching and yoga, still, workload increases bring injury increases.
Once we reach a point where several experienced heads are being replaced by young 'un's, we will be vulnerable to take down from any teams in the top 6 chasers
 
It´s weird cause all 3 can dent AB in some way but AB adapts to them so well ultimate they win at the other team strength. For me the key to defeating AB is getting to 65 m mark even or 1/2 points up. There the fear of losing will push the AB to attack and you will have a window to beat them. England and Aussies have i think the teams for doing that right now.

Ps. Pumas are still a long way to even be at the same level as AUS/SA. On a good day we can beat them but nothing more. If we had NH players then we could beat anyone except AB(and even there our chances rises a bit)
 
The Lions will win at least 1 of the tests next year if Gats gets it right squad wise.

I hope you're right, but I don't see any reason to disagree with Ladbrokes that 3-0 New Zealand is odds on.

Last time out, the Lions squeaked by a pretty average Australia side and had the luxury of a kinder tour schedule and and the ability to pick a Welsh invitational team. This time, barring miracles, they will be facing the best team in the world by some distance, will coming in off the back of a gruelling provincial schedule and will need to get a blend of the four unions playing a style of rugby that they may not be used to. Sounds like an uphill struggle to me.

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Left field answer, as the OP doesn't specify a time frame - USA! If (and only if) they ever sake XVs seriously, I can see them dominating more than any team before them.

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Ps. Pumas are still a long way to even be at the same level as AUS/SA. On a good day we can beat them but nothing more. If we had NH players then we could beat anyone except AB(and even there our chances rises a bit)

I agree, I can't quite understand how positive so many posters here are about them. Their progress has been great, but there's only one win in five years to say that they're going to overtake Australia and South Africa talk about New Zealand. Thanks I guess to a lack of resources and strength in depth, progress has been very much two steps forward, one step back. I can see them continuing to make progress, but still slowly but surely.

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There is no doubt for me that England can beat NZ at home with either a bit of luck or a stellar performance. My biggest worry is that the attritional style and furious tackling that was effective against Australia won't be anywhere near as effective against NZ's stronger, more skillful ball carriers. To be fair to Eddie Jones, I'm sure he will have plans in place. The way that NZ put Australia to the sword in Australia in the RC puts England's series win into perspective for me, which says that they are a long way of topping NZ on a regular basis.

Given how few time England are playing NZ in the foreseeable future, a few results going England's way could see them as world number one, which would seem strange.
 
England at Twickenham under Eddie Jones will be a bloody tough nut to crack, and the only team likely to do it in the next year is the AB's.
Thats how good England are now...
 
My answers based on teams being able to go head to head with the AB's week in and week out and win / draw / lose by a few

Argentina - have improved so much in the last 3 years, but lets be honest, to get them to a level that competes against Aus and SA week in week out will take a while and then to reach the AB's level even longer

SA - until they sort out the game politics and rebuild it is not going to happen

Aus - A long time, lack of depth is killing them

Ire - in 2014 / early 2015 I saw signs of Ireland becoming a powerhouse then they just dropped off a bit and lost that momentum, need to build it back up, so a while

Eng - look to be the team on the up and up, until we see a 3 test series against the AB's it will be hard to gauge.

So over the next 12-18 months it does not look like anyone will have a chance.
 
England at Twickenham under Eddie Jones will be a bloody tough nut to crack, and the only team likely to do it in the next year is the AB's.
Thats how good England are now...

We're heading in the right direction, but the stars would really need to align for us to take down the ABs. Apart from anything else there's too much uncertainty around our back row, midfield and back 3 selections.
 
The RWC knock out stage is all about one game at a time.
The AB's are a known entity.
England are plenty capable of winning a one off game against the AB's.
 
Left field answer, as the OP doesn't specify a time frame - USA! If (and only if) they ever sake XVs seriously, I can see them dominating more than any team before them.

Let's say 2 time periods

From here to 2020, England
From 2020 on...Argentina

Aus and SA have a chance if the fix their foundations
 
It's not the least bit surprising that the ABs are so dominant now. Go back a decade ago and the were obliterating every side they faced at U20 level. I remember thinking at the time that they're going to become more dominant and it was up to others to catch up.


England have been dominant at that level since so it will be no surprise to see them close the gap. Eddie Jones has taken over at the right time.


Of course there's more to it than that. U20 level can be effected by all kinds of things but generally it's not a bad barometer of things to come.


I think Ireland and Attention are on an upward curve but a long way off NZ. SA and Australia are on a downward curve. SA would greatly improve if they got rid of the quotas. Australia are not half the team they used to be. They're still smart but seem to be relying on physicality more these days. Wales will need a change of style to beat southern hemisphere sides more often. France are a rabble. Scotland and Italy are building but a bit off the second tier sides yet.


That leaves England. They're going well at the moment and have plenty of talent. Their problem down the line could be the clubs. They're paying the clubs a fortune for player access but what if that was to rise and they couldn't afford it.


So for me the ABs are s long way out in front and playing a great brand of rugby so I certainly don't begrudge them their success. England and SA have the most potential to catch up in the next 5 years but I'd rule the Boks out because their government are sabotaging them.
 
England are plenty capable of winning a one off game against the AB's.

We did and look what's happened since. Our aim should be to operate on at least a comparable level if not beyond. Not saying that's feasible but that's what we should be shooting for.
 
England at Twickenham under Eddie Jones will be a bloody tough nut to crack, and the only team likely to do it in the next year is the AB's.
Thats how good England are now...

we dont play england till 2018 lol

kinda sucks because I think its the game everyone wants to see right now.

I actually have some concerns about the AB's I think we need to lose a couple of games to get us back on track. We aren't selecting the best players, basically we aren't being forced to select on form because we are getting the job done with the tried and true. Its kinda got very conservative, player rotation has taken a back seat and our top team is getting a bit overworked.

I think we have had this interesting period for a while where players that have come in because of injuries have performed really well, in some cases better than the players they have replaced. But they haven't been able to establish themselves or get more chances.

Begs the question just how awesome would the All Blacks be if the team selection more truly reflected form?

The strength of the current team needs to be put into perspective as well. Traditionally the only teams that can beat the ABs and have done so in recent history are England, South Africa, Aussie and France. Now clearly Aussie & SA are in a rebuilding phase and to be fair you could say they are at their weakest now than any time on memory. That severely diminishes the potential competition the AB's have.

I see a vulnerability in the AB's England have the potential to drag us into a 10 man game keep us in the middle of the park and trade penalties, and our goal kicking hasn't been top shelf, its basically been good enough without being great... No-one has been able to drag us into a game where penalty kicks become critical. I believe that's what Eddie Jones's plan is.
 
Where did you get that the ABs won't play England until 2018 from?
 
correct me if I'm wrong but our EOY tour this year we play Ireland twice plus Italy & France, no England...

2017 is the lions tour to NZ, I don't know exactly who else we play next year outside the lions tour and Championship but as far as I know we dont have games against England next year.

We do in 2018
 
we dont play england till 2018 lol

kinda sucks because I think its the game everyone wants to see right now.

I actually have some concerns about the AB's I think we need to lose a couple of games to get us back on track. We aren't selecting the best players, basically we aren't being forced to select on form because we are getting the job done with the tried and true. Its kinda got very conservative, player rotation has taken a back seat and our top team is getting a bit overworked.

I think we have had this interesting period for a while where players that have come in because of injuries have performed really well, in some cases better than the players they have replaced. But they haven't been able to establish themselves or get more chances.

Thats an interesting call.
I'm curious to see how Dixon is going to go.
I wonder if selection has tightened up as we get close to the record run of wins.
 
. France are a rabble.

i agree but you still coudnt take the win offered on a platter in Paris last time over the most pitiful French team of all. How does that make you potential beater of New zealand I dont know.
 
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