Why do Props prefer one side?

[TNT88]

This is more of a trend I notice at the elite level. But it probably happens at club level too.

Why do some props call themselves "specialist" looseheads or tightheads? Is it something to do with their build that gives them a preference of where they want to play?

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is more of a trend I notice at the elite level. But it probably happens at club level too.

Why do some props call themselves "specialist" looseheads or tightheads? Is it something to do with their build that gives them a preference of where they want to play?

Not necessarily... It's more I think to do with how they were groomed from the lower levels, and the type of style they play.

In SA, loosehead props are more agile, better ball carriers, and not always the best scrummagers, whereas tightheads do the "donkeywork". Scrum, Ruck, Pick up players in lineouts, clear out players and are most of the time very slow.

I used to be a tighthead prop in highschool, and got taught a certain way to scrum, where I use my right arm more than my left arm. Then in my final year in Highschool, they moved me over to loosehead to help me improve my overall looser play. Scrummaging, was a whole new ball game, I had to learn how to keep myself up with my left arm, I had to learn that if I drop, everyone drops, because my left arm is much weaker than my right arm, there were a lot of new things that I had to learn from scratch.

As for the pro's, I think it's more of whatever position they are most comfortable with at scrum time.

 

[nickdnz]

I consider myself a loosehead for a very specific reason. My sholder is damaged on my leftside, so therefore binding on the scrum can only be done comfortably on one side. Before that I was probably more happy playing just the TH side.

There is also a slightly different skillset for playing TH and LH. TH's job in a scrum is keeping their back straight and keeping the scrum stable. LH's jobs in the scrum don't have to focus as much on keeping the scrum as straight but rather on disrupting the opposite side of the scrum.

For this reason you get a lot of players who are comfortable playing one side but not the other.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

I think it's like writing left- or right-handed. It is just not the same muscles and technique you use on one side or the other of the scrum. The difference in loose play that Heineken mentions, I think, is a consequence of the difference in physical attributes that are needed (I'm not a prop, so I couldn't be more specific about what these differences are).

 

[TRF_heineken]

Just to add to what Nick said, The tighthead, is seen as the Anchor of the Scrum. So coaches usually go for a guy with a low centre of gravity, and someone that can keep the scrum steady.

So it has to be a short burly guy, with a lot of strength. a loosehead can be short, long, thick, thin, doesn't really matter.

Prime examples would be BJ Botha and Kees Meeuws, some regard them as the best tighthead props of their generation, and they weren't giants...

as for looseheads, to compare Os Du Randt, Wyatt Crockett, Andrew Sheridan, or any other international loosehead, would be of no consequence, as every loosehead brings something different...

 

[admartian]

I've always wondered this myself.

Thanks for the insight guys.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's similar to the difference between opensides (TH) and blindsides (LH) work in the loose. Generally one is more a dynamic ball carrier, and the other is stronger in the tight to put it simply.
I can't really add any more to what the other guys have already said.

Getting a prop to switch to the other side of the scrum is like asking someone to start writing with their other hand.
It's extremely awkward/difficult for a number of reasons.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's similar to the difference between opensides (TH) and blindsides (LH) work in the loose. Generally one is more a dynamic ball carrier, and the other is stronger in the tight to put it simply.
I can't really add any more to what the other guys have already said.

Getting a prop to switch to the other side of the scrum is like asking someone to start writing with their other hand.
It's extremely awkward/difficult for a number of reasons.

Exactly!!

And this is what ****** me off about coaches. where they take a young prop, who barely mastered his skill at either Loosehead or Tighthead, and then decides to switch him to the other side. That must be such a damper on the player. And then there is always the "what if" factor. Converting to the other prop-side, doesn't necessarily mean that he will be a better player.

 

[Big Ewis]

Well (wait for it....it's coming....), I mean you know.....(here it comes !...). Like....some of them go both ways.







<_<

 

[Conal]

i always found the scrummaging quite different, at best i could hold a scrum at tighthead but at loose i could push the opposition back

 

[TRF_heineken]

i always found the scrummaging quite different, at best i could hold a scrum at tighthead but at loose i could push the opposition back

yeah, but that's how you know you are doing it correct. The loosehead needs to get the shove on, to rotate the scrum into your team's advantage. Your opponent needs to be really crappy to get a shove on him from the tighthead's side. as soon as your loosehead has shown dominance, and got the push on, the tighthead and the rest of the pack will automatically drive forward along with the loosehead, but he needs to get the first shove.

 

[dullonien]

Not much to add that others haven't said already. It's all about how a scrum is formed, with the front-rows offset slightly due to having to make room for the front rowers heads. This image shows what I mean:

As you see from above, the tightheads simply have more pressure coming through on them, because they receive the full force from the opposition looshead, but also some from the opposition hooker. A loosehead is only in contact with the opposition tighthead, and therefore doesn't need to be as good a scrummager.

This results in the different roles in open play. A tighthead's main job is to hold that scrum, and as such he's usually as powerful and compact as possible (tall tightheads can struggle to keep their backs straight). Because of this, his speed and agility is often compromised, just as an agile and quick winger concentrates on those aspects above power. The loosehead can get away with being not as strong a scrummager, and as such he can be a little more athletic, and train in a way to develop a little more speed and agility at the expense of a little scrummaging strength.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Dan Cole makes quite a good one, being a strong tighthead scrummager, and dynamic around the park.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

It's similar to the difference between opensides (TH) and blindsides (LH) work in the loose. Generally one is more a dynamic ball carrier, and the other is stronger in the tight to put it simply.
I can't really add any more to what the other guys have already said.

Getting a prop to switch to the other side of the scrum is like asking someone to start writing with their other hand.
It's extremely awkward/difficult for a number of reasons.

I agree. The point of my post is that I think (and I'd like to be corrected if not, because it's just a hunch) that there is a causality relation between both things. A prop is a LH or a TH because of his scrummaging. Because the scrummaging is different, the physical characteristics of a LH or a TH are different, which causes that their loose play is different. As an example, Ben Franks doesn't change his loose play when playing LH or TH, but, for instance, Sam Warbuton does change his play when playing OS os BS flanker.

 

[dasNdanger]

So it has to be a short burly guy, with a lot of strength.

Hate to disappoint everyone who thought I looked like a southern hemi cheerleader, but it appears I have finally found my position.


das

 

[nickdnz]

Not much to add that others haven't said already. It's all about how a scrum is formed, with the front-rows offset slightly due to having to make room for the front rowers heads. This image shows what I mean:

As you see from above, the tightheads simply have more pressure coming through on them, because they receive the full force from the opposition looshead, but also some from the opposition hooker. A loosehead is only in contact with the opposition tighthead, and therefore doesn't need to be as good a scrummager.

This results in the different roles in open play. A tighthead's main job is to hold that scrum, and as such he's usually as powerful and compact as possible (tall tightheads can struggle to keep their backs straight). Because of this, his speed and agility is often compromised, just as an agile and quick winger concentrates on those aspects above power. The loosehead can get away with being not as strong a scrummager, and as such he can be a little more athletic, and train in a way to develop a little more speed and agility at the expense of a little scrummaging strength.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Dan Cole makes quite a good one, being a strong tighthead scrummager, and dynamic around the park.

I tend to disagree that a LH doesn't have to be as good a scrummager. Because as you point out the different positions of the LH and TH - the pressure is different.

For example one of the hardest things about being a LH - is actually keeping straight without that wedge. For a TH - you only really worry about keeping your back straight, but the power and resistance is evenly distributed on both sides of your body. When your playing LH - a disproportionate amount of amount of power has to be used on one side of the body to keep it straight. You also have to worry more about going forward than keeping straight. I agree there does seem to be a trend of more mobile LH props in Super Rugby - but I don't believe that it has much to do with scrummaging ability as there are plenty of TH props which are useless at LH.

EDIt: That said my viewpoint may be schewed as I'm an extremely powerful LH with the speed of a winger, the handling and vision of a first five and the sexiness of a female 20 year old Russian tennis player - but the male version.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Hate to disappoint everyone who thought I looked like a southern hemi cheerleader, but it appears I have finally found my position.


das

More cushion for the pushin...

 

[Peat]

Just to add to what Nick said, The tighthead, is seen as the Anchor of the Scrum. So coaches usually go for a guy with a low centre of gravity, and someone that can keep the scrum steady.

So it has to be a short burly guy, with a lot of strength. a loosehead can be short, long, thick, thin, doesn't really matter.

Prime examples would be BJ Botha and Kees Meeuws, some regard them as the best tighthead props of their generation, and they weren't giants...

On the other hand, Carl Hayman was also highly regarded, and is 6'4". Cole and du Plessis are both 6'2". Doesn't always hold that tightheads are short.

 

[j'nuh]

Great post dullonien. Made me think about the scrum in new ways. Like all that force from the 8 must be coming through the tighthead-hooker channel too. It also appears as if that's why massive locks fit in at 4, so they can use their weight to support their tighthead.

One question to all though... people saying that tightheads anchor and looseheads disrupt, why is it that tightheads seem to do better at winning penalties?

 

[big ginger 8]

I play both sides but prefer loosehead. The main reason I feel people prefer one side over the other is simply that the technique needed for both are just completely different. Sorry if this is exactly what someone else said not thinking straight at the moment.

Also I notice people also saying about the anchoring and the loosehead being the destructive influence, I agree with this in principle but there's a reason a turnover at the scrum is called a tighthead. If your tighthead is able to get a really good strong scrum the other team is ****ed.

 

[TRF_heineken]

On the other hand, Carl Hayman was also highly regarded, and is 6'4". Cole and du Plessis are both 6'2". Doesn't always hold that tightheads are short.

True. It also depends on the Hooker and other prop. If they are tall, and your tighthead is much shorter than them, then the contact on the loosehead and hooker will be much more severe, and the connection will at most times be at an angle, and that is where many teams are unnessecarily punished.