WHY the Boks vs ABs game at Ellis Park was one of the best ever

[FlukeArtist]

I'm not saying "take away the penalties points" all i'm saying is reduce the amount they are worth.

I am a firm believer that the points scoring system should return to 4 points a try.
BUT reduce the penalty to 2 points, and drop goals to 1. i.e. like rugby league's point scoring system.

The whole point of my thread was that the game on the weekend was a classic example of what makes rugby a great game.
And also an example of what will make the game more attractive and grow it's audience.

A kick fest will never attract as many newcomers to the sport (especially as spectators) - Sorry but that's the simple truth.

I hear so many people say NOW that rugby is a kick-fest, or call it "kick and clap". Yet the game when played well is beautiful and skillful to watch.


Heineken -
"some games that are divisable by 3, have been fantastic to watch. the 1995 World Cup Final is one of them, and has been etched into many South African fans' memory."

It's etched into people's memories for reasons other than the game play itself sorry.
As a spectacle the day was magnificent.
As a game of rugby; it was not.
But this is often the case with RWC finals. Due to the tight nature and "everything to lose mentality" of the final; running rugby is dicarded for kicks to corners and penalty shots.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm not saying "take away the penalties points" all i'm saying is reduce the amount they are worth.

I am a firm believer that the points scoring system should return to 4 points a try.
BUT reduce the penalty to 2 points, and drop goals to 1. i.e. like rugby league's point scoring system.

The whole point of my thread was that the game on the weekend was a classic example of what makes rugby a great game.
And also an example of what will make the game more attractive and grow it's audience.

A kick fest will never attract as many newcomers to the sport (especially as spectators) - Sorry but that's the simple truth.

I hear so many people say NOW that rugby is a kick-fest, or call it "kick and clap". Yet the game when played well is beautiful and skillful to watch.


Heineken -
"some games that are divisable by 3, have been fantastic to watch. the 1995 World Cup Final is one of them, and has been etched into many South African fans' memory."

It's etched into people's memories for reasons other than the game play itself sorry.
As a spectacle the day was magnificent.
As a game of rugby; it was not.
But this is often the case with RWC finals. Due to the tight nature and "everything to lose mentality" of the final; running rugby is dicarded for kicks to corners and penalty shots.

Actually the game itself was also great. A guy like James Small who had to defend Jonah Lomu, did a bloody good job. Any fly half will tell you its not easy to score a drop goal, but to score more than one in a WC final shows great composure. It was also the first ever rugby match that I witnessed going into extra time.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This discussion is a bit pointless because there already is a game like the game we love except it is more 'exciting' and has less scrum restarts. It's called Rugby League. Go watch it.

 

[Sam Owen]

This discussion is a bit pointless because there already is a game like the game we love except it is more 'exciting' and has less scrum restarts. It's called Rugby League. Go watch it.

LOL I didnt think people in South Africa watch Rugby League and I base that on never seeing a South African League team. There should be though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

LOL I didnt think people in South Africa watch Rugby League and I base that on never seeing a South African League team. There should be though.

There are actually a rugby league team. they are called the SA Rhinos.

Here's there website: http://www.sarugbyleague.co.za/

 

[Sam Owen]

I'm not saying "take away the penalties points" all i'm saying is reduce the amount they are worth.

I am a firm believer that the points scoring system should return to 4 points a try.
BUT reduce the penalty to 2 points, and drop goals to 1. i.e. like rugby league's point scoring system.

The whole point of my thread was that the game on the weekend was a classic example of what makes rugby a great game.
And also an example of what will make the game more attractive and grow it's audience.

A kick fest will never attract as many newcomers to the sport (especially as spectators) - Sorry but that's the simple truth.

I hear so many people say NOW that rugby is a kick-fest, or call it "kick and clap". Yet the game when played well is beautiful and skillful to watch.

Yeah I know what you sayin and I agree brother. I enjoyed the Bok and AB clash and IMO, it was the better than the world cup final. The Boks played expansive and showed they could against a good All Black defence. Those games where kicking overtakes running Rugby (or just Rugby) is only good for the purist but otherwise boring.

Drop goals arent boring though. I think ones from 40 metres out should be worth 4 points.

 

[Sam Owen]

There are actually a rugby league team. they are called the SA Rhinos.

Here's there website: http://www.sarugbyleague.co.za/

WOW I never heard of these guys till now. Im surprised they're not in the NRL, no I havent seen them play but they can only improve by playing at a good level. Hope to see them up there one day. Might see them in the League world cup comin up...

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

Ive always wondered why SA arent a force in league, I mean they have some pretty big athletic guys that love contact.

 

[TRF_heineken]

WOW I never heard of these guys till now. Im surprised they're not in the NRL, no I havent seen them play but they can only improve by playing at a good level. Hope to see them up there one day. Might see them in the League world cup comin up...

It's mostly students that play... We even have an Aussie Rules Football team.

They just don't get any support or viewership apart from the Universities.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL I didnt think people in South Africa watch Rugby League and I base that on never seeing a South African League team. There should be though.

LO, yeah I don't really watch it but have seen clips here and there and know the general rules. Not big in SA.

There are actually a rugby league team. they are called the SA Rhinos.

Here's there website: http://www.sarugbyleague.co.za/

That is news to me but I expected there to some sort of amateur thing here and there. I mean I know there is a SA NFL thing going on but that is very minimal as well. I don't even know if here are teams playing each other in any sort of organized format.

 

[TRF_heineken]

LO, yeah I don't really watch it but have seen clips here and there and know the general rules. Not big in SA.



That is news to me but I expected there to some sort of amateur thing here and there. I mean I know there is a SA NFL thing going on but that is very minimal as well. I don't even know if here are teams playing each other in any sort of organized format.

I know TUKS are heavily involved with Rugby League, where as Pukke are involved with Aussie Rules.

With rugby league, they have some sort of tournament going on. I think there are about 10 teams and 2 divisions, or something like that. I don't watch any of it, as I personally just don't like league. I'm a union guy, call me Zwelenzima Vavi of Rugby...

 

[William18]

Well.

I don't teams throwing the ball around like it is a hot potato is always great watching. Yes, the game at Ellis Park was fantastic and one of the best test matches I have seen. However, South Africa have the right to play any style of rugby which they believe will be most effective for them. Lots of ITM Cup games have lots of attack but they are boring because the tries are scored too easily. What makes a good game of rugby is where the referee stays out of the game and there is lots of intensity. Generally, there has to be a decent amount of tries scored but not always.

I don't want to see the value of a penalty decreased because that will lead to more penalties. I think there are too many yellow cards already and certainly don't want to see any more either.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well.

I don't teams throwing the ball around like it is a hot potato is always great watching. Yes, the game at Ellis Park was fantastic and one of the best test matches I have seen. However, South Africa have the right to play any style of rugby which they believe will be most effective for them. Lots of ITM Cup games have lots of attack but they are boring because the tries are scored too easily. What makes a good game of rugby is where the referee stays out of the game and there is lots of intensity. Generally, there has to be a decent amount of tries scored but not always.

I don't want to see the value of a penalty decreased because that will lead to more penalties. I think there are too many yellow cards already and certainly don't want to see any more either.

And people seem to forget that when there is a try-fest type of game, it's usually because of poor defence/bad tackling etc.

A game where penalties are the norm in scoring are sometimes more intense. A team who is trying to score a try, and are basically camping on the opposition's tryline, and then be kept out from scoring a try, will revert back to kicking at goal. it's better to leave with something, than to leave with nothing.

 

[FlukeArtist]

This discussion is a bit pointless because there already is a game like the game we love except it is more 'exciting' and has less scrum restarts. It's called Rugby League. Go watch it.

I've heard this extremely simplistic argument before.

I do watch League on occasions. Thanks for the invite, but i'm already way ahead of you chief.

I just prefer Rugby.

Trying to improve Rugby doesn't turn it into League.
League has no real forward play. Heaven forbid rugby ever turns into that game; where a guy can play stand off one game, then prop the next (ala Feleti Mateo).

But to dismiss that Rugby can be improved is just "head in the sand" type mentality.

Rugby is a business now, and like any business; you are either growing or you're dying.
If the game wants to seriously become a global sport then it needs to look at ways to improve.

Promoting the pursuit of tries above penalty kicks is the first place to start if you want to improve the game for the average spectator.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Actually the game itself was also great. A guy like James Small who had to defend Jonah Lomu, did a bloody good job. Any fly half will tell you its not easy to score a drop goal, but to score more than one in a WC final shows great composure. It was also the first ever rugby match that I witnessed going into extra time.

We'll just have agree to disagree on this one chief.

You may remember it as a great Bok game, but I certainly don't as an ABs supporter.
And it's not just because we lost.
NZers generally don't watch/play rugby for the kicks.
I'll go out on a limb and say the Australians are the same. Certainly that is the feedback I have heard from all my Aussie mates who are rapidly switching off Rugby (Super Rugby in particular) because of the constant penalties, stop-start action and high value placed on kicking.

As I have stated ad nauseum (to use your favoured phrase) IF Rugby wants to truly become a global game it needs to look at ways to make it more attractive to the new spectator.
Penalty kicks just aren't going to do it.

 

[William18]

Anyway my argument is that attacking rugby is already adequately awarded. Who plays the best rugby? The All Blacks. Who wins the most games? The All Blacks. Admittedly it is not just style as you have to have the players who have the skills to pull off your style of play. I feel that South Africa are very good if they get out to a lead. They can play territory and kick drop goals to stay in front. As soon as you fall behind playing that style though you have no realistic way to get back into the game. 4 try bonus points are another huge incentive for playing attacking rugby. Had South Africa won last weekend but failed to secure a bonus point then we would have won the Rugby Championship on account of having scored an extra 4 try bonus point.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Anyway my argument is that attacking rugby is already adequately awarded. Who plays the best rugby? The All Blacks. Who wins the most games? The All Blacks. Admittedly it is not just style as you have to have the players who have the skills to pull off your style of play. I feel that South Africa are very good if they get out to a lead. They can play territory and kick drop goals to stay in front. As soon as you fall behind playing that style though you have no realistic way to get back into the game. 4 try bonus points are another huge incentive for playing attacking rugby. Had South Africa won last weekend but failed to secure a bonus point then we would have won the Rugby Championship on account of having scored an extra 4 try bonus point.

A fair point, but bonus points don't exist in every tournament.
And as a counter point to that, you wouldn't need them if the points structure was different

 

[Sker]

Guys.

I suffer from EPS (Enormous P... Syndrome)

Please. Donate. Save a head today.

KLEIN SATERDAG!!!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

one thing I love about the Wallabies not being 2nd in the world, kiwi rugby fans aren't threatened by us any more, they almost feel sorry for us now and show us more of a "chin up bro" attitude instead of the "where going to smash yous all day bro" attitude which has now been thrust upon bok rugby fans.

 

[The_Wol]

one thing I love about the Wallabies not being 2nd in the world, kiwi rugby fans aren't threatened by us any more, they almost feel sorry for us now and show us more of a "chin up bro" attitude instead of the "where going to smash yous all day bro" attitude which has now been thrust upon bok rugby fans.

Meanwhile the Samoan rugby fans are like "GET out of da way Australia. we thumped you once, we will thump you again" which is fair enough, because Samoa in a few years will be just as competative as Australia