• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Worst three players to lose from your Squad for the RWC.

TRF_stormer2010

Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
156
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

For SA Handre Pollard is near irreplacable at this stage. He has some way to go still to deliver on his 'promise' and get into contention in any sort of world XV discussions but for SA the drop from him to Jantjies is pretty massive.

From there the waters get a little muddy. This time last year I'd have said Faf de Klerk but Herschel is having a golden year and Reinach is pretty close to being a like for like replacement for Faf with Faf being a tad off it since that knock to the head.

Its kinda crazy putting forward a loosies name considering our depth but with Marcel Coetzee already ruled out and Jaco Kriel unavailable we don't have the depth beyond our top 4 (Kolisi/Vermeulen/PSdT/Louw). Of those my intitial reaction is Kolisi because of his captaincy but I think Vermeulen actually has more arguments in his favor in a RWC context.

Then I would nominate Willie le Roux at 15 as our 3rd most imporant player mostly just due to lack of depth.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,379
Reaction score
1,240
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

For SA Handre Pollard is near irreplacable at this stage. He has some way to go still to deliver on his 'promise' and get into contention in any sort of world XV discussions but for SA the drop from him to Jantjies is pretty massive.

From there the waters get a little muddy. This time last year I'd have said Faf de Klerk but Herschel is having a golden year and Reinach is pretty close to being a like for like replacement for Faf with Faf being a tad off it since that knock to the head.

Its kinda crazy putting forward a loosies name considering our depth but with Marcel Coetzee already ruled out and Jaco Kriel unavailable we don't have the depth beyond our top 4 (Kolisi/Vermeulen/PSdT/Louw). Of those my intitial reaction is Kolisi because of his captaincy but I think Vermeulen actually has more arguments in his favor in a RWC context.

Then I would nominate Willie le Roux at 15 as our 3rd most imporant player mostly just due to lack of depth.
But we don't have a lack of depth at 15 though. Cheslin Kolbe, Jesse Kriel and Warrick Gelant are all very good fullbacks, plus we have Frans Steyn there too. I think this is one position we are pretty well looked after.

I saw an article over the weekend suggesting that Schalk Brits might be used as a loose forward against teams like Canada and Namibia to give guys like Kolisi, PSDT and Vermeulen some rest. Now I don't know if that's such a good idea, especially since Marx has been a bit off, so Bongi's availability is paramount. If either Marx or Bongi gets hurt, and Schalk has to play out of position, we sit with the situation that we might have to call up Scarra. I would be more comfortable if someone like Elstadt or Van Staden gets rather called up, and Schalk remains at cover for Hooker.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Who in your opinion are the worst three players to lose from your squad? And why? Taking into account cover for the player and any other relevant factors.

England.

Manu - for me he adds so much and fits perfectly into our attacking structure, take him out and noy only do we not have like for like cover but we also only really have faz or francais as options there.

Billy - while Wilson is adequate cover he is not the same and would be a big step down.

Faz - not only a leader in the team and a great player but also 12 cover which allows us to play different style rugby. Ford is a good replacement but not enough to cushion the loss.


Thats my 3 for England.
Is it supposed to be the three worst, assuming you actually only lose one of them? Or do you lose all three at once?

If the latter then

Mounga b. barret and j moody

We would be stuffed if we lost both mounga and b.barret
 

TRF_stormer2010

Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2009
Messages
8,260
Reaction score
156
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

Stormers

But we don't have a lack of depth at 15 though. Cheslin Kolbe, Jesse Kriel and Warrick Gelant are all very good fullbacks, plus we have Frans Steyn there too. I think this is one position we are pretty well looked after.

I saw an article over the weekend suggesting that Schalk Brits might be used as a loose forward against teams like Canada and Namibia to give guys like Kolisi, PSDT and Vermeulen some rest. Now I don't know if that's such a good idea, especially since Marx has been a bit off, so Bongi's availability is paramount. If either Marx or Bongi gets hurt, and Schalk has to play out of position, we sit with the situation that we might have to call up Scarra. I would be more comfortable if someone like Elstadt or Van Staden gets rather called up, and Schalk remains at cover for Hooker.
I'd beg to differ. Moving Kolbe from 14 would leave us worse off there. Same with Kriel at 13 though less so as I am fine with Am. I for one wouldn't want to see Steyn at any place bar 12. He is just too slow for 15 and too gangly for 10. Gelant for me is a fine stand in but I still feel he hasn't quite made that step up yet but I can see it happen in time.
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,379
Reaction score
1,240
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

I'd beg to differ. Moving Kolbe from 14 would leave us worse off there. Same with Kriel at 13 though less so as I am fine with Am. I for one wouldn't want to see Steyn at any place bar 12. He is just too slow for 15 and too gangly for 10. Gelant for me is a fine stand in but I still feel he hasn't quite made that step up yet but I can see it happen in time.
I get that too. I'm just saying that should the worst happen, Willie is easier to be replaced than other positions. Plus we have the luxury of having guys like Willemse, Bosch, Blommetjies and dare I say it, Andries Coetzee here in SA to also slot in at fullback. Perhaps even SP Marais or Dillyn Leyds.
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
5,365
Reaction score
1,607
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Youngs, Cole and Francis

Oh wait that's not what you meant by worst 3 players to lose?

EDIT didn't check to the end of the thread before commenting. I am disappointed I was beaten to the pedantic literal interpretation of this and thus lost out on valuable likes :(
 

profitius

BANNED!!!
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
2,112
Reaction score
102
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

3 worst loses for us on current form would be James Ryan, Stockdale and Henderson.
 

Larksea

First XV
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
3,187
Reaction score
376
Country Flag

New Zealand

For nz
Savea
Moody
Whitelock

Savea because he is our point of difference, the world class player who can win a game we are otherwise not going to win. By contrast if cane gets injured you can put Todd there and haven’t lost much (though I am a huge cane fan, Todd offers similar attributes). If you lose read you can play savea at 8, who would do a bette job, and use luke or barret at 6; you would definitely lose a bit in total but the replacements are pretty good.

Moody is the obvious one. I’m quite shocked @Larksea and @bobby_m didn’t pick this one. Moli and ofa as a loosehead are a long way behind moody; but also because we don’t have franks we kinda need the experience of moody for when the opposition uses all their experience against us. While laulala is an excellent scrummager, in terms of pure talent, he doesn’t have the experience against different techniques and tactics like franks does.

And whitelock. At this stage Brodie is already injured until the quarterfinal at least, and then won’t have match fitness, and already hasn’t been in top form as late. Whitelock s ruck clearances and Linout work as well as leadership will be vital, particularly in the mix we have chosen with a relatively small 6 who isn’t the best line out forward.


When Ireland beat the all blacks Ardie savea was the best on the park, followed by furlong and healy then the rest of the Irish team. But furlong and Healy in particular made the difference, as they were just so much better than their New Zealand propping counterparts. So much so that franks hasn’t made it to the World Cup.
Dont agree with Savea, sure great player but we have Cane and Todd, sure Savea carries well but he doesn't offload or link much, when we have Savea at 6 or 8 we lose a genuine lineout option. Savea and cane are both winning turnovers, Todd will too. I also dont like him at 8 while he carries well from the back he's not as confident with the ball at his feet as Read, Read is great at lineout time, Read is the teams attacking restart expert, Savea is not. Cane and Read are dominant taclkers Savea is not to that same level. Savea is a very good defender, but he doesn't stop runners or meet them like Read and Cane can and that is the most important job of the 7 in the big games. Not saying Savea isn't a great player he is. But we have 3 world class 7's and of the 3 Savea is not known for the "dark arts" we associate for 7's, he's better in open play for sure.

Moody is a good point easily top 5 but I do think we have very good depth at prop, the guys we have did awesome in super rugby just lacking test experience. Better depth at prop than we do for first five imo :(
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Dont agree with Savea, sure great player but we have Cane and Todd, sure Savea carries well but he doesn't offload or link much, when we have Savea at 6 or 8 we lose a genuine lineout option. Savea and cane are both winning turnovers, Todd will too. I also dont like him at 8 while he carries well from the back he's not as confident with the ball at his feet as Read, Read is great at lineout time, Read is the teams attacking restart expert, Savea is not. Cane and Read are dominant taclkers Savea is not to that same level. Savea is a very good defender, but he doesn't stop runners or meet them like Read and Cane can and that is the most important job of the 7 in the big games. Not saying Savea isn't a great player he is. But we have 3 world class 7's and of the 3 Savea is not known for the "dark arts" we associate for 7's, he's better in open play for sure.

Moody is a good point easily top 5 but I do think we have very good depth at prop, the guys we have did awesome in super rugby just lacking test experience. Better depth at prop than we do for first five imo :(
Some good points, and yeah our third best loosehead is probably better than our third best first five.

Honestly the fact that savea is not known for the dark arts doesn’t mean he isn’t World class at them. It’s simply that people have put him in the ball carrier box so don’t see the rest, combined with the fact he has improved incredibly quickly at the dark arts. When he has played seven at international and super rugby this year and last he has been better than any at the dark arts. When he has played at 6 for the all blacks this year he hasn’t been hugely involved in the dark arts but that has been more because it hasn’t been his role as much, combined with a trio that were still finding their feet together.
 

Jimbo

Bench Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
599
Reaction score
158
Country Flag

UK

Club or Nation

London Wasps

I would put May pretty high whilst other options are fine, do any of them offer the aerial presence or relentless chasing May does, the England side are not exactly scared of a few kicks...
 

mania

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
May 3, 2017
Messages
1,417
Reaction score
584
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Samoa

retallick crotty aaronSmith
 

Caitlyn Jenner

Bench Player
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
818
Reaction score
480
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Mo'unga/Barrett: Absolutely the last people we want getting injured. The drop off to the next best 10s after these 2 is HUGE and obviously we only have the 2 of them in Japan, so losing one would be very bad.

Savea: The best player in NZ right now (and the world imo) and has been all year. The difference this guy makes to any team he plays for is unmatched, and his form right now is phenomenal. He does absolutely everything you'd expect a world class flanker to do - Great breakdown work, great defender, huge engine, always involved..... but on top of that he's the most devastating running forward in the world. Literally always makes meters and eats up multiple defenders per run creating momentum and space for the next phase which opens up a lot of opportunities for the ABs with our quick ruck ball - opportunites that no one else can provide to the same effect. Also has the skillset and speed of a midfield back....... and covers all 3 loose forward postions! Overall an absolute freakish player, our current MVP. Wouldn't be surprised to see him become the player of the tournament. Would be a massive loss no matter how you look at it.

Read: Has recently rediscovered the form that made him the best 8 in the world...... definitely not the player he once was, but his value to the team is undeniable, for a number of factors. Other than the fact that he's a great player and in his best form in years, he's the only true 8 we have at the world cup. Sure, Savea could fill in if he went down and do a great job, but that would mean they ABs have to change a lot of the way they play as Savea is very different to Read and is not a specialist. It would also mean we need a 6 replacement, and we don't have a proven one.... except for Squire, but he's not in Japan. And, of course, the obvious reason is the fact that he's our set in stone captain, making him crucial to our overall performance in many ways. No one else in the squad has any considerable experience leading the ABs, Read really has been the guy in terms of leadership and responsibility for the last 4 years.

Very honorable mention to Sam Whitelock, with Retallick already down he would be a massive loss.
 
Top