Wtvr ever happened to Fiji ?!

[Big Ewis]

Hey fellas,
I imagine there are known causes for this, really well known ones but I'm just not aware of them simply...

Anybody has some good insight as to just wtf went wrong ? Coz it's a clear decline...dunno exactly starting when but...seeing they have an excellent record historically against Samoa n even more Tonga is surprising based on these current days...

I mean, they got beaten brutally the past RWC...out of recent memory, they got smashed by England, and then simply obliterated by Ireland A....

In the top 14 and even the Premiership from what I've seen, there's bound to be a Pacific Islander at the wing(s)/center and there are so many quality try-scorers from there...how did they sink so low, so fast...?
I'm sure the Welsh on here specifically will reminisce Wales losing to Fiji just 5 yrs ago in the '07 RWC...and then 66-0 in the '11 RWC...

 

[irelandfan123]

French rugby clubs and indecisive IRB

 

[smartcooky]

1. Lack of money and resources, leading to

2. Lack of playing time together on a regular basis, not helped by

3.

French rugby clubs and indecisive IRB

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean, they got beaten brutally the past RWC...out of recent memory, they got smashed by England, and then simply obliterated by Ireland A....

Yet their record against Wales....

 

[psychic duck]

Let's not read too much into some big loss results without knowledge of the background stuff of them.

They lost 66-0 to Wales because they changed the entire team to a reserve team for that match after their stronger team struggled in the initial matches.

The reason they got stuffed against Ireland in November is because their attitude just wasn't up for that match and they let their heads drop and just gave up after a few quick tries. They are still capable of magic. Just seem to get disinterested and lack effort after the match has gone though.

Fiji's results have always been inconsistent. They always have had some awful matches every years, but equally if a team is stupid enough to try and take them on at a running game (like Wales 2007) then they are dangerous.

Also the increasing importance of the scrum really hasn't done them any favours whatsoever with them having all their strength on the wings whilst their front row is simply woeful.

 

[irelandfan123]

Well from what I know Fijian players get paid very little to play for Fiji and most of them send money home, so if they get out of club duty that is a bucket load of money lost for there family back home and they are generally not released so when they are most of them choose not to got out and play for the country as the pro's are out done by the cons, think its harsh to say they hadn't got the attitude in any game because the quality of the team they put out was like the Fiji A team.
Now the IRB are not acting, they should really make payments to these players so they are not kept out by french clubs and fiji can compete like samoa

 

[psychic duck]

Well from what I know Fijian players get paid very little to play for Fiji and most of them send money home, so if they get out of club duty that is a bucket load of money lost for there family back home and they are generally not released so when they are most of them choose not to got out and play for the country as the pro's are out done by the cons, think its harsh to say they hadn't got the attitude in any game because the quality of the team they put out was like the Fiji A team.
Now the IRB are not acting, they should really make payments to these players so they are not kept out by french clubs and fiji can compete like samoa

You can't deny that their heads went down and any intensity from them disappeared after Ireland got 2/3 tries.

 

[irelandfan123]

You can't deny that their heads went down and any intensity from them disappeared after Ireland got 2/3 tries.

Yeah but only of the players of low quality the scrummy and decon manu (although I think it was him can't remember) looked dangerous the whole game I remember it wasn't a complete performance from Ireland and Fiji dd well to keep them on their toes

 

[nickdnz]

It's hard to expect much of Fiji with the players they have at their disposal. You only need to list the guys missing because of club rugby in Europe to see why they do so badly atm.

 

[psychic duck]

It's hard to expect much of Fiji with the players they have at their disposal. You only need to list the guys missing because of club rugby in Europe to see why they do so badly atm.

In fairness Fiji could be missing 10 wingers and they could still put out some quality ones.

I think the unavailability thing is overstated, last November they had Matawalu, Goneva and Talebula all in their backline. The problem is at full strength they are weak at front row and also fly half, and it's always going to be tough with poor players in those positions.

Add to that, their attitude when they have gone down is poor and not one that wants to get some pride in lessening the losing margin. Once they had lost to England and Ireland they just went. However I saw them play Scotland and in the Pacific Nations Cup last June and they certainly gave a better efforts there where they were not out of the match.

Also they have not decided to go down the Samoa/Tonga route of trying to persuade as many New Zealand born players as possible to play for them, with just a few like Deacon Manu produced in NZ compared to half the teams of Samoa/Tonga most of the Fiji team learnt the game and was brought up in Fiji. Samoa and Tonga have definitely managed to get an edge on them thanks to getting the likes of Fotuali'i and Ma'afu New Zealand of Pacific Isle descent available for them.

 

[Big Ewis]

I remember reading they didn't have a sponsor for some tournament or Tour or smt...just a few months ago. But it's not like they were rich before...or maybe the effects of the crisis has hit them badly, and with their guys in France n England ??...
But it's just strange, because a national side like Samoa only has its players much, much better from playing in Europe. They're a team of mercenaries who join force and are labeled "Samoa", when everything/most of what they learn is in Europe. They've made considerable strides the past 3-4 years as everybody knows, and yet Fiji has sunk deep...

And the scrum has always been important, I mean it's not like it was an invisible aspect of the game during the 90's, when they could compete...but they have traditionally conceded penalty tries, it's true...throughout the decades.

They're just simply an entire tier down from Samoa and Tonga these days, it's really too bad, because they produce such athletic beasts I'd love to see the modern, full strength Fijian game well coached and organized, and HUNGRY.

 

[nickdnz]

In fairness Fiji could be missing 10 wingers and they could still put out some quality ones.

I think the unavailability thing is overstated, last November they had Matawalu, Goneva and Talebula all in their backline. The problem is at full strength they are weak at front row and also fly half, and it's always going to be tough with poor players in those positions.

Add to that, their attitude when they have gone down is poor and not one that wants to get some pride in lessening the losing margin. Once they had lost to England and Ireland they just went. However I saw them play Scotland and in the Pacific Nations Cup last June and they certainly gave a better efforts there where they were not out of the match.

Also they have not decided to go down the Samoa/Tonga route of trying to persuade as many New Zealand born players as possible to play for them, with just a few like Deacon Manu produced in NZ compared to half the teams of Samoa/Tonga most of the Fiji team learnt the game and was brought up in Fiji. Samoa and Tonga have definitely managed to get an edge on them thanks to getting the likes of Fotuali'i and Ma'afu New Zealand of Pacific Isle descent available for them.

I agree in regards to the fly half - really good point. I think now that Nicky Little has gotten too old to be selected, they really haven't created a decent replacement. Seremaia Bai was probably the second best but he's 34 and I doubt he'd get released again anyway.

 

[psychic duck]

I remember reading they didn't have a sponsor for some tournament or Tour or smt...just a few months ago. But it's not like they were rich before...or maybe the effects of the crisis has hit them badly, and with their guys in France n England ??...
But it's just strange, because a national side like Samoa only has its players much, much better from playing in Europe. They're a team of mercenaries who join force and are labeled "Samoa", when everything/most of what they learn is in Europe. They've made considerable strides the past 3-4 years as everybody knows, and yet Fiji has sunk deep...

And the scrum has always been important, I mean it's not like it was an invisible aspect of the game during the 90's, when they could compete...but they have traditionally conceded penalty tries, it's true...throughout the decades.

They're just simply an entire tier down from Samoa and Tonga these days, it's really too bad, because they produce such athletic beasts I'd love to see the modern, full strength Fijian game well coached and organized, and HUNGRY.

I don't think Samoa would be happy with you labelling them a team "mercenaries" see Eliota's Twitter page. Also they leant their game in New Zealand or Samoa most of them and then took it to Europe.

Scrum is a lot more important now giving the amount of penalties given. Before with a crap scrum you were only in danger close out where the opponent could drive you over, now they can get penalties every scrum they get on top.

I agree in regards to the fly half - really good point. I think now that Nicky Little has gotten too old to be selected, they really haven't created a decent replacement. Seremaia Bai was probably the second best but he's 34 and I doubt he'd get released again anyway.

Isa Nacewa is another possibility who could play there and would be huge for them. But never wanted to play for them really.

Another point there too, internal politics can hurt them as well as the French clubs. The word is that after the disastrous RWC the FRU blamed foreign based players as having a bad attitude and decided to favour Fijian based players and some of the RWC players were ditched for reasons other rather than simply player release.

They still have some immense talent from that policy of favouring Fijian based players (Matawalu, Nayacalevu and Talebula in June both soon signed for professional clubs) with just a few Europe based players, but the FRU are stuck in amateur era thinking they can compete with Tier 1 doing that with the quality of props, locks and fly halves they have.

 

[Big Ewis]

I agree they play their own style of course, running game, will make it a principle to keep the ball in hand and not kick even in pressure situations not far from their own 22...(Pac Islanders do, esp. Sam) - but I mean in terms of competition, i.e. where they play all year long; they're in the midst of HCups n Top 14 n Premiership mostly, with some in SR..
I mean they learn the ropes n tricks n technical aspects n gameplan/strategies there, I'm thinking in the scrum notably.

I remember the Pac. Islander tour around 2008 (?) where they got beaten badly where they went, and their scrum got beaten badly in France. Past November, they held their own nicely in Paris (Samoa).

If they didn't have all their players abroad, they'd be good, with sheer athleticism and Rugby ability; but they'd probably lack in defensive schemes, scrum technique, kicking (which STILL is a problem somehow for them typically...) among other aspects.

 

[sifplay]

Super Rugby happened to them. The decision not to include them in 1995 when they made the Super 12 agreements killed any income to the Pacific Islands forcing them to go over to NZ and other places

 

[Big Ewis]

^ right, okay.
Man, Fijians must be furious...seeing their neighbors succeeding like that, Samoa winning in Cardiff handily, Tonga beating Scotland and coming close in Rome as of late...
All about the moneh moneh monehhh huh...

If Fiji could sort out some way to keep their players somehow, have them compete in SR and Europe and then join back I'm sure they'd be a better side than even Samoa right now. They're possibly the most athletically gifted for the game of rugby in the world, I mean not to sound racist here but they're Pacific Islander+black ffs !

 

[nickdnz]

Super Rugby happened to them. The decision not to include them in 1995 when they made the Super 12 agreements killed any income to the Pacific Islands forcing them to go over to NZ and other places

Once again I think you're poorly informed. Super Rugby would cost Fiji money..

 

[Muzzy]

There's a lot of good Fijian players playing in NZ and Europe, but most of them don't get released or don't want to play for Fiji. Whats odd is Tonga and Samoa don't seem to have this problem, they're able to get all their good players from the NZ and European clubs. I don't understand it

There's Fijians that want to make Super Rugby and possibly the all blacks too which means they can't play for Fiji. I think Osbourne, Tikoirotuma and Nemani are trying to make the all blacks, and if they did play for Fiji they'd lose their places in their Super Rugby squads, so there's another way for Fiji to lose promising players

 

[FlukeArtist]

Super Rugby happened to them. The decision not to include them in 1995 when they made the Super 12 agreements killed any income to the Pacific Islands forcing them to go over to NZ and other places

Further proof Sifplay knows bugger all

 

[FlukeArtist]

In fairness Fiji could be missing 10 wingers and they could still put out some quality ones.

I think the unavailability thing is overstated, last November they had Matawalu, Goneva and Talebula all in their backline. The problem is at full strength they are weak at front row and also fly half, and it's always going to be tough with poor players in those positions.

Add to that, their attitude when they have gone down is poor and not one that wants to get some pride in lessening the losing margin. Once they had lost to England and Ireland they just went. However I saw them play Scotland and in the Pacific Nations Cup last June and they certainly gave a better efforts there where they were not out of the match.

Also they have not decided to go down the Samoa/Tonga route of trying to persuade as many New Zealand born players as possible to play for them, with just a few like Deacon Manu produced in NZ compared to half the teams of Samoa/Tonga most of the Fiji team learnt the game and was brought up in Fiji. Samoa and Tonga have definitely managed to get an edge on them thanks to getting the likes of Fotuali'i and Ma'afu New Zealand of Pacific Isle descent available for them.

hang on a minute... isn't NZ the scourge of the Pacific Islands??
I mean, that's what we have been hearing on these boards for years...