• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Your 31 man Squad and Starting 15 for Your country in the Rugby World Cup 2019 guys part 2 :)

Bill

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
166
Reaction score
31
Is there anything that stops a union from taking 40 players, paying them as squad members, have them all participate in training etc, but with only 31 as official squad members until someone gets injured ?
 

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,379
Reaction score
1,240
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

Is there anything that stops a union from taking 40 players, paying them as squad members, have them all participate in training etc, but with only 31 as official squad members until someone gets injured ?
Teams usually have an extended training squad of around 50 guys prior to the World Cup. But then only 31 can go to the World Cup. This is due to regulations, and also due to limited accomodation at some venues.

But there's always a group of about 10-15 guys on standby who may be called up in case a player is so severely injured that he won't participate in the World Cup at all.

Anyway here's my Springbok squad as it stands now:

1. Stephen Kitshoff
2. Malcolm Marx
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. RG Snyman
6. Siya Kolisi
7. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
8. Duane Vermeulen

9. Faf De Klerk
10. Handre Pollard
11. Aphiwe Dyanthi
12. Andre Esterhuizen
13. Jesse Kriel
14. Cheslin Kolbe
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Schalk Brits
17. Thomas Du Toit
18. Wilco Louw
19. Lood De Jager
20. Jean-Luc Du Preez
21. Embrose Papier
22. Elton Jantjies
23. Damian Willemse

24. Trevor Nyakane
25. Beast Mtawarira
26. Akker van der Merwe
27. Marco van Staden
28. Ivan van Zyl
29. Damian De Allende
30. Roscoe Specman
31. Warrick Gelant
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

1. Karl
2. Coles
3. Lomax
4. Retallick
5. Whitelock
6. Barrett
7. Savea
8. Read
9. Smith
10. Barrett
11. Ione
12. Alb
13. Goodhue
14. Naholo
15. Smith
16. Moody
17. Taylor
18. Franks
19. Romano
20. Cane
21. Perenara
22. Mo’unga
23. Crotty

Tuungafasi
Harris
Todd
Squire
Ttt
Parker ( I think we can get him to sign to a province given Sunwolves are on the out)
Laumape
Nanai
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

So I think squad should be;

Props
Joe Moody
Owen Franks
Karl Tu'inukuafe
Ofa Tu'ungafasi

Hookers
Dane Coles
Cody Taylor
Nathan Harris

Locks
Brodie Retallick
Sam Whitelock
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu

Back Row
Kieran Reid
Sam Cane
Liam Squire
Akira Ioane
Shannon Frizell
Ardie Savea
Vaea Fifita

Half backs
Aaron Smith
TJ Perenara

1st 5/8ths
Beauden Barrett
Richie Mo’unga

Centres
Ryan Crotty
Jack Goodhue
Ngani Laumape
Anton Leniert-Brown

Outside backs
Ben Smith
Jordie Barrett
David Havili
Reiko Ioane
Waisake Naholo

Talking points (for the above);
- gone for an extra back rower as we’ve had some injury problems there recently and I worry that given the speed we need to hit rucks to generate the quick ball we want, we’ll likely lose a number to injury. I also don’t think the drop off is particularly steep if any of these players came in
- 3 hookers as Dane has his injury problems too and it’s one of those specialised positions that seems to usually have 3 deep travelling.
- only 2 half backs. The drop off from TJ and Aaron to the rest is a chasm and I don’t feel comfortable having passengers at the World Cup is appropriate. Also they’ve had a relatively ok injury history and both have phenomenal stamina so should be able to cope with the volume of games
- only 2 1st 5/8ths. This is completely driven by no D-Mac, with Havili in his place. Jordie can cover centre and if desperately needed 10 as well as 14&15 so he will be our emergency 10 I think. Havili has been excellent this season in super rugby, been around the wider squad for a while now and can cover a number of positions well.
- no Nonu; he’ll be at the end of a long season and he’s not getting much rest from the Blues, so I worry that he will run out of steam at a crucial point.
You make some good points in your justifications but ...I think the rule is that if you replace a player they can’t come back into the squad, so there is extra risk in specialist positions if you were to have short term injuries. For example, say Aaron Smith got injured in the first game but was expected to be available by the final. With your squad you’d only be playing with one halfback in the quarter and semi finals, with no one else remotely able to play there. That means Perenara would play 80 mins of every game? And that if Perenara were to get injured you’d have to play the rest of the game with say Mo’unga at halfback in a semifinal? The other option is you send Aaron home and replace him, but you can’t bring him back for the final. I agree that at 9 and 10 there is a gulf between the top 2 and what comes after, but that to me is more reason to bring in a third to protect them .
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

I was reading the rules and seems that you’re right regarding the need for emergency replacements to be in the 31 man squad. Does this mean though that at least one of your props must be able to play and be “suitably trained and experienced” in packing down both sides of the scrum, or you’re going to have to take 6 props? If one has to take 5, I’d have to drop Fifita or Akira, although would be reticent to do so.

On 4 half backs, I’m using Jordie as a fallback at 10 if needs be. He has done it at age grade level and filled in there a couple of times for the Canes, so as an emergency could do the job. I’d also suggest that if one of the half backs was injured, even the day before a game, the other could play 80 mins and they’d then have someone come out for the next game. I think also if needed Ben Smith could fill in at half back.
Aah didn’t see this before I posted. Tuungafasi can play both sides. Are you sure Jordie has played at ten for the canes?
 

Leinster Fan

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 5, 2017
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
1,108
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Leinster

Is there anything that stops a union from taking 40 players, paying them as squad members, have them all participate in training etc, but with only 31 as official squad members until someone gets injured ?
I'm pretty sure there's a rule against that.
 

BobbyM

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
393
Reaction score
175
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Aah didn’t see this before I posted. Tuungafasi can play both sides. Are you sure Jordie has played at ten for the canes?
I like the way you’ve looked at the half back situation, where if one is out they’re out for good effectively. Ach it’s tough, and I agree that Tahuriorangi would be 3rd choice, and so perhaps sacrificing another outside back (Havili in this case) or a centre (which I think would have to be crotty or laumape) would have to be the ones missing out.

On Jordie I recall him ending a game there last but can’t recall who against (BB wasn’t playing if that is any help). He has done it age group though I do know.

Was listening to the short ball with Ali Williams today and he’s still on the Nonu train, which is interesting. He was also suggesting JB could fill in at 10,

Alternatively we take Richie as our main 10, Bender at 15, BB as 22/3 and take along another 10 (Otere Black for me) and drop JB altogether. 31 is not a big squad!!!!
 

Bill

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
166
Reaction score
31
The trouble with doing an England 31, is that they could have the best 30 players in the world, but with Farrell at fly half, it doesn't matter who else you pick, because he doesn't have the bottle at international level to get to the final.
 

dullonien

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
5,393
Reaction score
269
Country Flag

Wales

Wales:

01 Nicky Smith
02 Ken Owens
03 Tomos Francis
04 Cory Hill
05 AWJ
06 Josh Navidi
07 Justin Tipuric
08 Taulupe Faletau

09 Rhys Webb
10 Gareth Anscombe
11 Josh Adams
12 Hadleigh Parkes
13 JD2
14 George North
15 Liam Williams

16 Elliot Dee
17 Rob Evans
18 Dillon Lewis
19 Adam Beard
20 Ross Moriarty
21 Gareth Davies
22 Dan Biggar
23 Owen Watkin

24 Ryan Elias
25 Samson Lee
26 Jake Ball
27 Aaron Shingler
28 Tomos Williams
29 Rhys Patchell
30 Owen Lane
31 Leigh Halfpenny

Talking points for me would be whether we drop Jake Ball, using Shingler as emergency second row cover and take an additional loose forward e.g. Cubby or Wainwright. Will Webb make himself available? If not then it's between Aled Davies (who was excellent for the O's out in SA) and Rhodri Williams. Patchell or Jarrod Evan's as third 10? Patch needs to show he's back close to his best this weekend. Owen Lane covers centre and wing, could force his way into the 23 shirt by the WC as a result. Amos unlucky to miss out, but injuries have wrecked his season.
 

Bill

Academy Player
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
166
Reaction score
31
My prediction of England's (with strength marks) :

M Vunipola 9
Genge 7
Moon 6
Sinckler 8
Cole 7
Williams 4
George 7
Hartley 7
LCD 4
Lawes 9
Itoje 9
Kruis 8
Launchbury 7
Robshaw 7
Curry 9
Underhill 8
B Vunipola 8
Wilson 7

Youngs 6
Spencer 5
Wigglesworth 5
Farrell 4
Ford 7
Tuilagi 7
Slade 7
Joseph 6
May 9
Nowell 8
Daly 7
Watson 7
Goode 7


On standby :
Marler (7), Singleton (4), ?(4), Hughes (6), Shields (7), Simmonds (7), Care (5), Teo (5), Cokanasinga (7), Brown (7)
 
Last edited:

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

I like the way you’ve looked at the half back situation, where if one is out they’re out for good effectively. Ach it’s tough, and I agree that Tahuriorangi would be 3rd choice, and so perhaps sacrificing another outside back (Havili in this case) or a centre (which I think would have to be crotty or laumape) would have to be the ones missing out.

On Jordie I recall him ending a game there last but can’t recall who against (BB wasn’t playing if that is any help). He has done it age group though I do know.

Was listening to the short ball with Ali Williams today and he’s still on the Nonu train, which is interesting. He was also suggesting JB could fill in at 10,

Alternatively we take Richie as our main 10, Bender at 15, BB as 22/3 and take along another 10 (Otere Black for me) and drop JB altogether. 31 is not a big squad!!!!
I'm not convinced on Nonu at this stage. he simply isn't as agile, sharp, and fit anymore. he is a freak, so he still has immense explosive power whcih is crazy for his age, or any age really. But he has made some defensive errors and his passing hasn't been accurate (nothing horrendous, just regularly a foot or so off, instead of being nicely out in front of the man) and i worry he will run out of steam. But I'll be happy to change my mind if he continues to prove himself.

On the third first five situation, I think we have to wait and see how the rest of the super rugby season plays out. I would hope that if Jordie was an option that the message would be given to the canes coaches to give him some game time there; instead, TJ was the reserve first five in their game last night, which might mean the All Blacks coaches want to look at him as an option. Jordie at the moment is also just a risk in general, in any position. he does too many stupid things. if he improves on that, and gets game time at 10 that would be great. I like Otere Black, but he just doesn't have the ability to get enough distance on his territorial kicks to be a test level player, imo. I know cruden didn;t get much distance at the start of his career, but he was very special in otehr areas. Josh Ione might continue to improve.
 

Nudger

Bench Player
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Messages
569
Reaction score
97
My prediction of England's (with strength marks) :

M Vunipola 9
Genge 7
Moon 6
Sinckler 8
Cole 7
Williams 4
George 7
Hartley 7
LCD 4
Lawes 9
Itoje 9
Kruis 8
Launchbury 7
Robshaw 7
Curry 9
Underhill 8
B Vunipola 8
Wilson 7

Youngs 6
Spencer 5
Wigglesworth 5
Farrell 4
Ford 7
Tuilagi 7
Slade 7
Joseph 6
May 9
Nowell 8
Daly 7
Watson 7
Goode 7


On standby :
Marler (7), Singleton (4), ?(4), Hughes (6), Shields (7), Simmonds (7), Care (5), Teo (5), Cokanasinga (7), Brown (7)
Not a bad shout
Only changes i would make
Care far wiggy
Cips for goode or watson
 

Christian10

Academy Player
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
20
Reaction score
2
Country Flag

Argentina

Club or Nation

Annecy

My 31 for Los Pumas:

1: Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro (Mayco Vivas)
2: Agustin Creevy (Julian Montoya)
3: Juan Figallo (Ramiro Herrera)

4: Guido Petti (Mariano Galarza)
5: Tomas Lavanini (Matias Alemanno)

6: Pablo Matera (Tomas Lezana as back up for 6 &7)
7: Marcos Kremer
8: Facundo Isa (Javier Ortega Desio)

9: Tomas Cubelli (Gonzalo Bertranou)
10: Nicolas Sanchez (Patricio Fernandez)

11: Ramiro Moyano (Juan Imhoff)
12:: Jeronimo De la Fuente (Juan Pablo Socino)
13: Matias Moroni (Matias Orlando)
14: Bautista Delguy (Santiago Cordero)
15: Emiliano Boffelli (Joaquin Tuculet)

N°31: as 5th prop Lucas Noguera Paz or Santiago Medrano.
 

Azzurro Blue

Academy Player
Joined
Dec 23, 2018
Messages
6
Reaction score
2
My team for Italy:-
1) Nicola Quaglio (Andrea Lovotti)
2) Leonardo Ghilardini (Luca Bigi)
3) Simone Ferrari (Tiziano Pasquale)
4) David Sisi (Dean Budd)
5) Federico Ruzza (Alessandro Zanni)
6) Braam Steyn (Sebastian Negri)
7) Jake Polledri (Maxime Mbanda)
8) Sergio Parrise (Jimmy Tutivati)
9) Tito Tebaldi (Marcello Violi)
10) Tommy Allen (Antonio Rizzi)
11) Mattia Bellini (Leonardo Sarto)
12) Luca Morisi (Tommaso Castello)
13) Michele Campagnaro (Marco Zannon)
14) Angelo Esposito (Luca Sperandio)
15) Matteo Minozzi (Jayden Hayward)
16) Half Back Replacement - Callum Braley
 

TTurtle

Academy Player
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
You make some good points in your justifications but ...I think the rule is that if you replace a player they can’t come back into the squad, so there is extra risk in specialist positions if you were to have short term injuries. For example, say Aaron Smith got injured in the first game but was expected to be available by the final. With your squad you’d only be playing with one halfback in the quarter and semi finals, with no one else remotely able to play there. That means Perenara would play 80 mins of every game? And that if Perenara were to get injured you’d have to play the rest of the game with say Mo’unga at halfback in a semifinal? The other option is you send Aaron home and replace him, but you can’t bring him back for the final. I agree that at 9 and 10 there is a gulf between the top 2 and what comes after, but that to me is more reason to bring in a third to protect them .
I agree with both of you but I think Coach Hansen has something up his sleeve for us like moving Jordie Barrett into the emergency 9/10 positions. Were deep at Centre with SBW and Nonu not even mentioned as possibilities. The selection committee loves SBW and he will be in Japan. Nonu I believe will get Dmac's spot on the foundation 41 list but will he make it to Tokyo? I think its a tough decision but I honestly believe NZ could field 2 World cup teams and those teams would play each other in the finals. I'd Happily give up my USA teams slot for a chance at NZ immortality. You wanna talk about a gap look at the players omitted from the foundation 41 team and tell me I'm wrong.
David Havili, Matt Proctor, Tim Perry, Luke Romano, Dillon Hunt, Jeffery To’omaga-Allen, Gareth Evans, Mitchell Drummond, Elliot Dixon, Brett Cameron, Kane Hames, Brad Weber, James Parsons, and Augustine Pulu, Ma'a Nonu, Bryn Hall, Asafo Aumua, Atu Moli, Ricky Riccitelli, Matt Duffie and Reuben O’Neill, Nehe Milner-Skudder and David Papalii, Otere Black, Hayden Parker, Lima Sopoaga and more.
 
Last edited:

TTurtle

Academy Player
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Anyone Posting a New Zealand team that has players not listed on the Foundation 41 list are dreaming. With the exception of replacing Dmac which is next to impossible skill wise. The team going to Tokyo will consist of these players barring further catastrophe.

Forwards: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman, Nathan Harris, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Tyrel Lomax, Joe Moody, Angus Ta’avao, Karl Tu’inukuafe, Ofa Tuungafasi, Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Brodie Retallick, Patrick Tuipulotu, Samuel Whitelock, Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Shannon Frizell, Akira Ioane, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea, Liam Squire, Matt Todd, Luke Whitelock

Backs: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Richie Mo’unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Jordie Barrett, George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Waisake Naholo, Ben Smith
 

BobbyM

Academy Player
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
393
Reaction score
175
Country Flag

Scotland

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Fair cop TTurtle, can’t argue with that. Of that group, looks like either an 18/13 or 17/14 split. Personally I’d drop TTT and SBW and D-Mac from the backs. In the forwards (if going for 18) I’d say Harris, Lomax, Ta’avao, Hemepo, Fifita/Squire/Cane (injuries depending), Todd and L Whitelock may not make the final squad. Gives 3 hookers and 5 props.

Alternatively one could bring TTT along (although as above not sure it would be my preference) and drop probably Akira Ioane.
 

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

Anyone Posting a New Zealand team that has players not listed on the Foundation 41 list are dreaming. With the exception of replacing Dmac which is next to impossible skill wise. The team going to Tokyo will consist of these players barring further catastrophe.

Forwards: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman, Nathan Harris, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Tyrel Lomax, Joe Moody, Angus Ta’avao, Karl Tu’inukuafe, Ofa Tuungafasi, Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Brodie Retallick, Patrick Tuipulotu, Samuel Whitelock, Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Shannon Frizell, Akira Ioane, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea, Liam Squire, Matt Todd, Luke Whitelock

Backs: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Beauden Barrett, Damian McKenzie, Richie Mo’unga, Ryan Crotty, Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Jordie Barrett, George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Waisake Naholo, Ben Smith
Maybe dreaming maybe not but this thread was about our 31 not what we predict will be the 31, so let me dream, oh please let me dream.

In terms of what you are saying though, can you remember back to before the last World Cup (I cant) to see if anyone was chosen outside of a foundation squad? I remember, at least, that Milner skudder and Naholo came in reasonably late in the piece.

I think I’m terms of filling the third ten position there was no way anyone outside of the 41 was ready or available at the time they named the 41.

I can also see Nonu come in as he has been there before as well as coldie Taylor.
 
Last edited:

Umaga's Witness

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,270
Reaction score
516
Country Flag

New Zealand

Club or Nation

Hurricanes

my Wales team

1 Nickey Smith
2 Ken Owens,
3 Samson lee
4 Corry Hill
5 Alun Wyn Jones (Captain),
6 Aaron Wainwright
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Toby Faletau
9 Tomos Williams,
10 Gareth Anscombe,
11 Josh Adams,
12 Scott Willams
13 Jonathan Davies,
14 George North,
15 Leigh Halfpenny

Replacements:
16 Elliot Dee,
17 Rob evens
18 Dillon Lewis,
19 Seb Davies
20 Ellis Jenkins,
21 Aled Davies
22 Dan Biggar,
23 Liam willams

reverses
24. Leon Brown
25. Jake Ball
26. Josh Navidi
27. Ross Moriarty
28. Gareth Davies
29. Rhys Patchell
30. Jonah holmes
31. Owen Watkin

whats your idea Squad for your Country guys :)
I’d also like to note that your thread topic suggests special importance to the starting 15, but in my ideal squad I picked my ending 15 first. To me that’s more important in a World Cup final.
 

Woldog

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
1,696
Reaction score
252
Country Flag

Australia

Club or Nation

Reds

1. Sekope Kepu
2. Folau Faingaa
3. Allan Alaalatoa
4. Izack Rodda
5. Adam Coleman
6. Peter Samu
7. David Pocock
8. Isi Naisarani
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Sefa Naivalu
12. Samu Kerevi
13. Tevita Kurindrani
14. Marika Koroibete
15. Dane Haylette-Petty

16. Brendon Pangai-Amosa
17. Scott Sio
18. Taniela Tupou
19. Rory Arnlold
20. Michael Hooper
21. Tate McDermott
22. Bernard Foley
23. Kurley Beale
 
Top