your country's 31 man squad for the 2023 World Cup

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by ruck987, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Not going to comment on the front row because props and stuff and 1 and 2 are definitely the hardest to predict.

    Second rows are a good shout, Beirne, Dillane and Kleyn probably all have what it takes to be a bench option at least but they'll have to show more. Wycherley is a buck who could be huge for us.

    Backrow - Deego and VdF are almost dead certs in my opinion. Conan and Leavy will be a huge boost if they make it. Hodnett, Doris and Penny are anyone's guess, Jack O'Donoghue could do with making a statement sometime soon too.

    9s - Casey could do with moving province and not being 4th/5th choice. Luke McGrath needs to grow up a bit. Fetish and Blade are fairly big standard. Murray was never really quick enough so a 34 year old isn't an option.

    10s. This is where I start disagreeing with you. I think it'll be Byrne x 2 or Carty ahead of Ross and Carbery. I don't think it's an outrageous prediction to say Frawley won't ever be a Leinster starter, there's currently three better 10s, two better 12s and a David Hawkshaw who'll be better at both to contend with, Frawley will do well to ever play for Ireland.

    Centres - Henshaw (he'll only be 30 and younger than both Welsh centres were this year) and Ringrose are nailed on imo. Hawkshaw, O'Brien, French, Moore, C Farrell and Addison will hopefully all be about too.

    Back Three - This is where it starts getting really difficult, there could be school kids who'll be playing at the next world cup and it's probably the biggest stylistic call! Stockdale and Larmour are probably certs. Sexton, Lowe, Lowry, Daly, Addison, Byrne and Haley could all be in with a shout too. I'd have Carbery covering both brackets too.

    I think my age cap is 31 there. I don't really see who we can bring older than that. The pessimist in me says that POM, Murray, Healy and CJ will be given every chance and we'll stick with Sexton too long but they've all been on the wain this year or longer and I don't want to see any of them by autumn 2021. No doubt at least one of them will make it though.
     
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  3. Rob Horsfall-turner

    Rob Horsfall-turner Academy Player

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    Incorrect
     
  4. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Yes! Then he can emulate the same what Robinson and North have done in a World Cup. Pull a hamstring and lose the match...
     
  5. big ginger 8

    big ginger 8 International

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    Wycherley is 6'4" which is why I was hesitant about putting him as a lock.

    Conan and Henshaw are two I'm probably being somewhat overcautious about. I definitely think they'll rack up caps in the between the world cups but I'm sort of treating them like running backs. Who tend to see a sharp decline after they reach 30. They both have a lot of collisions in a game and Henshaw in particular has quite an injury history. I wouldn't be exactly shocked to see them there. Due to getting is international spot later in his career Conan may also have more miles on the clock.

    I certainly don't think Frawley will be a Leinster starter at 10 but I can see it at 12 or 15. It really depends on what direction our coaching staff wants to go though. As I said Hawkshaw Is someone I need more proof from simply due to him being pretty undersized (he's listed at 5'10" but I'm dubious) Matt Giteau showed it's not impossible but it is harder. Farrell is a pretty good stop gap but I hope the younger lads have progressed enough by 2023 that we don't need him.

    Hayley and Addison break the no Sale rule :D.

    I agree those players will probably be given a lot of chances. I think Sexton is likely to retire after the next Lions tour. Stander is pretty much the prime example of my running back theory, him and Healy are two I'd actually be incredibly impressed if they are able to string top level games together in 4 years. Of course we also have no idea what Farrell's selections will look like and who his favourites will be be.
     
  6. WarriorKelv

    WarriorKelv Academy Player

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    Ellis Genge, Beno Obano as looseheads, props are always hardest to predict but Genge barring injury is a cert. Obano is the only other atm who is being touted but I worry he isn't test level.

    Jamie George, Jack Singleton, Jack Walker, George adds experience and leadership in the pack and Singleton at 23 still hasn't reached his best yet. Tough for the third option but I rate Jack Walker tbh.

    TH Kyle Sinkler, Joe Heyes, Ciaran Knight people will question Knight but by 2023 he should be first choice at Gloucester and equally adaptable to LH or TH which you don't get much of these days. Heyes/ Stuart was also a hard call.

    In the second row David Ribbans, Maro Itoje, Joel Kpoku, Nick Isiekwe Isiekwe is basically Itoje 2.0 and Itoje should be one of the best locks in the world at this point. Kpoku is an absolute monster in the 2nd row and David Ribbans at 24 is an exceptional player hopefully he doesn't get a Bok call up and we can tempt him.

    6,7,8 Zach Mercer, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill massive depth though in this position and definitely the hardest to call tbh. Mercer and Dombrandt must have been close to being in the squad for this world cup but bar injury should be there two ball carriers one with very quick feet and one with the physical stature. Curry and Underhill are definates and should be two of the best in the world at this time. Ben Earl is another good openside coming through but with Itoje/ Isiekwe capable of playing 6 as well as Dombrandt/ Mercer I thought another openside who can play 8 would be good for balance. Plenty of other options here though. Ackermann is also an option but already being around the South Africa setup he will possibly chose them.

    Ben Spencer, Alex Mitchell at scrum half I can see only two going again and these two are clear choices Spencer is currently the best SH in the Premiership and Mitchell the best of the young up and comers. Henry Taylor would be 3rd choice and first call up.

    Farrell (c), Ford, Grayson Farrell at 32 was a hard pick but you need leadership and in all fairness Farrell is a good leader. Ford is underrated imo but could be overtaken by one of the youngsters coming through a few 10's coming through. Grayson goes as cover for 10 and 15.

    Centres Johnny Williams, Joe Marchant, Ollie Lawrence I like bulky centres tbh Marchant isn't too far away from the national side now and by this time Lawrence should be ready even though he isn't near at the moment. Williams for me is our best 12 in the making but getting relegated with Newcastle hasn't helped his cause. By 2023 though i'm confident that Williams will be our Primary inside centre, Redpath for me is overrated and Luke James is one of those players who will possibly get overlooked. Tompkins, Butler, Morris and Dingwall will be close though.

    Ollie Thorley Joe Cokansinga Ben Loader and Gabriel Ibitoye as wingers Thorley and Ibitoye offer cover at 13, Coka is an absolute beast but needs work on his defence but under John Mitchell that is do-able. Loader is already being touted by Eddie Jones. Possibly Jack Nowell but depends how these lot progress

    Anthony Watson and George Furbank if Jones is in charge I don't see this happening but how many fans have called for Watson at 15 for Daly lately. Furbank is a left field call but has cemented himself at 15 for Saints another position with big depth though which is great as it's a weakness atm.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019 at 8:13 AM
  7. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    this is the list they give, interesting choices, only 1 current Highlander and i can confirm Pari Pari is a unit, his defense was immense when he's played for us, tackle and hold up for the turn over a common move

    ...some good news, one Highlander might mean we wont be too effected by resting AB's and might have a good 2023!...or it will mean we're not very good

    15. Will Jordan (Crusaders, 25*)
    14. Caleb Clarke (Blues, 24*)
    13. Jack Goodhue (Crusaders, 28*)
    12. Ngani Laumape (Hurricanes, 30*)
    11. Rieko Ioane (Blues, 26*)
    10. Richie Mo'unga (Crusaders, 29*)
    9. Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi (Chiefs, 28*)
    8. Ardie Savea (Hurricanes, 30*)
    7. Sam Cane (Chiefs, 31*) – captain
    6. Luke Jacobson (Chiefs, 26*)
    5. Pari Pari Parkinson (Highlanders, 27*)
    4. Brodie Retallick (Chiefs, 32*)
    3. Alex Fidow (Hurricanes, 26*)
    2. Asafo Aumua (Hurricanes, 26*)
    1. Atu Moli (Chiefs, 28*)

    Reserves:

    Codie Taylor (Crusaders, 32*)
    Karl Tu'inukuafe (Blues, 30*)
    Tyrel Lomax (Hurricanes, 27*)
    Scott Barrett (Crusaders, 29*)
    Dalton Papali'i (Blues, 26*)
    Ere Enari (Crusaders, 26*)
    Beauden Barrett (Blues, 32*)
    Anton Lienert-Brown (Chiefs 28*)
     
  8. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Typical Sharks supporter; willing to move the World Rugby PotY (PSDT a Stormer) out of position and cull our WC winning captain (Kolisi another Stormer) to accommodate 3 ex Sharks players in the Bok Backrow! ;)

    I have a lot of time for TdT and Fassi but we'll have to see. Do you think the Sharks will move TdT to loose head again?

    Its good for Fassi that Bosch will in all likelyhood play at 10 for the Sharks. My hope is that Willemse will also play at 10 rather than 15 for the Stormers which means the only competition for the Bok 15 jersey will come from Gelant (who has the inside track) or Kolbe if he gets a chance at 15. I don't think Tyrone Green will get a look in.

    Agreed we can keep the old heads around and bring the new faces in piecemeal. Vermeulen has even stated that he'd love another crack at the RWC in 2023..

    Its a strange one that we are world champions every 12 years right before the B&I Lions come to town. Rassie has shown you can prep in 2 years so 2021 B&IL shouldn't hamper us going into 2013.

    I like the names you mentioned above. Didn't know Muller du Plessis has also left the Blitzbokke. Though I don't suppose him and Kok will get a look in not when there are more settled (in the 15 man code) and at least as classy black wingers about.

    What Chris van Zyl is that? Surely not the 33 years lock?

    I fully expect RG Snyman and Lood to remain staples. Bosch and Willemse have been fringe Bokke. I expect they'll get their chances in the coming years. Van der Mescht I can see breaking into a role as 4rth lock like Franco Mostert is currently. Maybe even push for a spot higher up the pecking order if he takes to senior rugby.

    I'd be surprised if Frans Steyn made 2013 though. I just think we have good options in the centers between DDA, Am, Serfontein and Kriel and he doesn't have the speed for playing wider out. Let the likes of Gelant, Kolbe, Willemse and Bosch fight for the #15 jersey I say.

    I do like Jaco Coetzee and am hoping for Augustus to settle more in senior rugby. Augustus hasn't quite made the same impact at SR and CC levels as at junior level. Coetzee for me has been more impactful but honestly, I can't see them making the Bok squad not unless they move away from the WP/Stormers where they have to contend not only with each other but Boks Kolisi, PSDT and Notshe AND my pick for Stormers 8 Ernst van Rhyn on top of lock/loose forwards Kobus van Wyk, Cobus Wiese (who I see as PSDT mark2) AND the actual PSDT mark2, his brother Johan du Toit. THAT is just at WP!! Count Ruan Ackermann, the Du Preez twins, Marcell Coetzee and Marco van Staden also ahead of him as they'e already been in and around the Bok setup. That is a TAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ladder to climb. I can see these guys moving on and playing elsewhere ala Braam Steyn and CJ Stander et al. We just produce too many quality forwards.
     
  9. unrated

    unrated First XV

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    No i think i meant someone else than Chris van Zyl then if he is 33 yearsold. i saw a Stormers lock make his debut in Super rugby this year and he was amazing but became injured later on cant remember his name... wonder if it was Shickerling, but van Zyl sounded familiar. IT might have been Cobus Wiese.


    Sorry for you but Notshe is now at the Sharks. Think Coetzee would have outplayed him regardless.

    The natural position of PSDT is lock. So i was not playing him out of position. The guy is a great rugby player. One of my all time favourites behind F Steyn. I think he has raised his game and if we move him back to lock then he would deliver the same standard of performance. Also he is an ex Shark so this might reinforce your conspiracy theory :p

    I hope Ruan Ackerman does not play for the Springboks. I dont rate him.

    Yea Francois Steyn would be too old for 2023 probably but maybe he can play more for us in the end of year tour and even the Lion tours, would like to see him win another tight game for us with a 60m kick. Also the guys is a legend like Os and will soon be inducted into the Hall of fame so i say lets **** it and play him. Just like NZ did with Sonny.
     
  10. 87Dreamer

    87Dreamer Academy Player

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    Exciting young team.

    I think Clarke will eventually move into the midfield like his old man.
    I know Rieko wants to play there also.

    I also think they need to spend some time trying to develop Akira Ioane. Based on pure athletic ability, he's one hell of a specimen, just needs to up his work rate and add a bit of mongrel.
     
  11. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    I think Akira looks like he has real potential...but needs to move away to realise it, go and play for the saders or highlanders, teams a long way from home with real culture
     
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  12. sigesige00

    sigesige00 Bench Player

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    Firstly, is "undermining countries without depth and helps the top nations" a bad thing? I don't think so.
     
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  13. duncanb

    duncanb Academy Player

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    I would rather see rugby expand than become a 16 nation shoot out.
    I respect your opinion but don't agree.
    Larger squads only suit the big rugby nations.
    Any team can replace a player when injured as happened during world cup.
    31 is fine and coaches players organising bodies are happy , can you not except this?
     
  14. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    yeah...because thats how a sport grows...hamstring the emerging countries
     
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  15. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    To add to this Jeromy Guscott has recently said that Rugby needs to restrict substitutions to 3 though you can have large benches in order to curtail tactical substitutions like what SA has done with our forward pack this RWC. I suppose there is some merit to his arguments even though as a South African I of course like how having a 2nd pack on the bench arguably better than our starters in many ways plays in our favor. I for one like that options on the bench might give coaches more tactical/strategic options but will admit countries with less depth in quality won't probably be able to make effective use of such. Also, during a RWC if you see it as a marathon a good bench will help keep your top players fresh at the business end.

    TBF he doesn't mention SA specifically but the reporter has added that very obvious hook for the SA reader.

    I see now this article has featured already in the final's match day thread but think its still relavant to this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019 at 8:12 AM
  16. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Shickerling and Wiese both are very good. Wiese might have a higher ceiling IMO. He is also a bit younger and hasn't really featured as much as Shickerling though both have been involved with us for a while now but probably him. Will be interesting to see how the Stormers use PSDT. I expect we'll stick with blindside though TBF I agree with you to some extent that PSDT will be better at lock for us at least in the more open SR. Test rugby is another matter but we have depth aplenty at the loose forwad so maybe PSDT can play at lock for a spell for us.

    I'm actually glad you signed Notshe then. he was our version of Pierre Spies. A bit of a race horse and looks good if you are already winning but I'm not sure how much he contributes to actually winning. Kolisi, PSDT, Coetzee, young JDT, Van Dyk, Van Rhyn and Augustus. We'll struggle to give everyone game time. Probably we'll rest Kolisi and PSDT a lot. Notshe is no loss.

    I quite like Ackermann as a blindside/8 but that is beside the point. There are sooo many players ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so. PSDT, both Du Preez twins, Vermeulen will stick around for the B&I Lions, young guys coming through.. yeah, Ackermann probably doesn't form part of the equation.
     
  17. Pom in Exile

    Pom in Exile Academy Player

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    I don’t get to see any domestic UK rugby and I’m fully aware that he’s a figure of fun on these boards but when I saw Mallinder playing for the U20s he looked like a future world star, I remember talking to some Kiwis about him and they thought he was mustard. What’s happened since then that his name alone elicits a Lol? Genuine question btw.
     
  18. Pom in Exile

    Pom in Exile Academy Player

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    Bloody hell, my thoughts entirely, replied above then saw that you had asked the exact same question.
     
  19. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    He's genuinely the worst defender I've ever seen.
    I mean he's probably improved since I last watched him for Saints (a while ago tbf) but when he first started playing senior rugby he actively avoided any contact, flinging wild passes over his head to avoid getting tackled and straight up not trying to tackle people in defence.
    For all the stick Cipriani/O'Gara etc. get, at least they were speed bumps rather than matadors.

    That sort of reputation is hard to shake when you've been hyped so massively from the age grade sides.
     
  20. GoTheNaki

    GoTheNaki Bench Player

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    Literally just made a post about this in Super Rugby section, lol.

    Multiple questions really, with it being stated that Rieko Ioane will play 13 now at the Blues, do you then think Reece? Do you think Will Jordan will put Jordie Barrett and Damien McKenzie out of the 15 jersey? Etene Nanai-Seturo? I also think Scott Barrett will be one of our top players in the years to come, and don't think he'll be on the bench. Oh, also, Akira Ioane?
     
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  21. MarkyH

    MarkyH Bench Player

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    For someone who is 6ft 5 and 17st he's a bit of a wimp
     
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