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Your Lions Squad Based on this Season?
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<blockquote data-quote="big ginger 8" data-source="post: 994970" data-attributes="member: 53057"><p>I do remember Itoje being a lock at scrumtime, was it ever said by coaches if that was just down to him being a better scrumagger or was there another reason? In fairness, there is a good deal of projection with regard to Itoje at six and I am basing a lot off traits given it's a little while since he played there? </p><p></p><p>There are a lot of aspects I like about a Curry and Underhill partnership, there's a lot of hard hitting, strong rucking and dog in it. I'd probably be pretty happy with them if the series was vs NZ or Australia. I do worry about their carrying impact and yes the lineout. As you say yourself at they are probably decent and reasonable in those areas. I think they will work probably really well against every team except France and SA. England simply has more physical firepower than most countries. So both together work really well in the English system. They don't need to be great first wave carriers there's five or six players around them who can get the momentum going and they are both well able when they're on the front foot, with Curry having ability as a linkman. </p><p></p><p>For the lineout there's enough ability there for most teams and I think England don't care as much about possession that don't care as much about possession. As long as they can make their 'dominant tackles' and get the odd turnover Jones is more than happy. Unfortunately on paper at least that probably won't work as well against SA. If they have the ball all day they will tire you down from tackling such big men and you don't tire them down by putting them on the back foot. You're also probably much less likely to make a dominant tackle vs them. There's a good chance SA have the best lineout in the world and while I do like Ryan and Itoje as defensive jumpers they would have a very difficult task. Our own hooker would also have to be perfect. With Itoje 'only' being 6'5" SA would have a significant height advantage across the back five. Which makes my last worry about Curry and Underhill together is that they kind of tie your hands a bit in regards to your front five selection, particularly if Vunipola is at 8. I was looking through some past games there for stats and I was surprised to see how few games Curry and Underhill have started together recently. Of England's last five games against SA (all since 2018) they only both started the WC final</p><p></p><p>I wrote all of that but I'm not completely against Curry and Itoje they're just worries I have about their partnership and I don't think I'd be mad if they end up lining out together. I have genuine worries about whoever we put at 6. I am probably basing a good bit off perception which is pretty dangerous.</p><p></p><p>I must admit as I wrote my post I did think why am I so certain Vunipola should be the starting 8? If he plays like he did in the Heineken Cup knockout stages you have to play him but he was incredibly average at times last year. It was not a great six nations for number 8's outside Alldritt, even if Stander was returning to some form (who fits the physicality and carrying I want but not the lineout ability). I honestly believe it's a great pity Doris got knocked out so early and there's actually a lot of potential for a backrow of him at 8 and Curry and Underhill on the flanks.</p><p></p><p>Wilson and Skinner have the profile to give what I'm talking about but I would like to see more from (and admittedly of) them.</p><p></p><p>Of course given how attritional the backrow is you have to wonder how much choice will actually be available come the test matches.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="big ginger 8, post: 994970, member: 53057"] I do remember Itoje being a lock at scrumtime, was it ever said by coaches if that was just down to him being a better scrumagger or was there another reason? In fairness, there is a good deal of projection with regard to Itoje at six and I am basing a lot off traits given it's a little while since he played there? There are a lot of aspects I like about a Curry and Underhill partnership, there's a lot of hard hitting, strong rucking and dog in it. I'd probably be pretty happy with them if the series was vs NZ or Australia. I do worry about their carrying impact and yes the lineout. As you say yourself at they are probably decent and reasonable in those areas. I think they will work probably really well against every team except France and SA. England simply has more physical firepower than most countries. So both together work really well in the English system. They don't need to be great first wave carriers there's five or six players around them who can get the momentum going and they are both well able when they're on the front foot, with Curry having ability as a linkman. For the lineout there's enough ability there for most teams and I think England don't care as much about possession that don't care as much about possession. As long as they can make their 'dominant tackles' and get the odd turnover Jones is more than happy. Unfortunately on paper at least that probably won't work as well against SA. If they have the ball all day they will tire you down from tackling such big men and you don't tire them down by putting them on the back foot. You're also probably much less likely to make a dominant tackle vs them. There's a good chance SA have the best lineout in the world and while I do like Ryan and Itoje as defensive jumpers they would have a very difficult task. Our own hooker would also have to be perfect. With Itoje 'only' being 6'5" SA would have a significant height advantage across the back five. Which makes my last worry about Curry and Underhill together is that they kind of tie your hands a bit in regards to your front five selection, particularly if Vunipola is at 8. I was looking through some past games there for stats and I was surprised to see how few games Curry and Underhill have started together recently. Of England's last five games against SA (all since 2018) they only both started the WC final I wrote all of that but I'm not completely against Curry and Itoje they're just worries I have about their partnership and I don't think I'd be mad if they end up lining out together. I have genuine worries about whoever we put at 6. I am probably basing a good bit off perception which is pretty dangerous. I must admit as I wrote my post I did think why am I so certain Vunipola should be the starting 8? If he plays like he did in the Heineken Cup knockout stages you have to play him but he was incredibly average at times last year. It was not a great six nations for number 8's outside Alldritt, even if Stander was returning to some form (who fits the physicality and carrying I want but not the lineout ability). I honestly believe it's a great pity Doris got knocked out so early and there's actually a lot of potential for a backrow of him at 8 and Curry and Underhill on the flanks. Wilson and Skinner have the profile to give what I'm talking about but I would like to see more from (and admittedly of) them. Of course given how attritional the backrow is you have to wonder how much choice will actually be available come the test matches. [/QUOTE]
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