What has gone wrong with French rugby

[Tony Manx]

I ask the question after a weekend of poor results but also exceedingly poor performances.

After this weekend, one has to wonder just how good are the Top 14 teams, and I know that the cheap shot is that Biarritz is holding the rest up, but I am concerned at the way in which French teams are playing and, inevitably, the knock on effect!

There is little doubt that the supporters will continue to pay their money and turn up but, in my mind, the standard of rugby, the speed of thought and play, the fitness and the all round ability to play as a team is having a huge impact on the competitiveness of the French teams in Europe. I am not gainsaying the individual talents that have proved themselves many, many times over................maybe it is the coaches, the lifestyle, the culture?

I have already posted here that the multi changes in personnel in the off season and the changes in teams between home and away games does leave it exceedingly difficult to have the esprits des corps and also the knowledge of your partners' games in the team game.

It is no coincidence that Leinster and Munster, arguably the most successful teams in Europe over the last decade, have that team spirit and continuity and they make the players who are not the international stars into fantastic team players who drive the team forward....Leo Cullen immediately leaps to mind!

The French teams seem to be so slow.....look at the way they crawl to a line out, how they seem to be so slow to clear the ball away down from a break down...in thought and deed.

Ramble over but would be interested in other's constructive thoughts...............Guys it really is easy to slag off Biarritz and you cannot say anything I have not already said or thought!!

 

[Feicarsinn]

It's an interesting question. All of this should of course be put into the context that Toulon are European champions and Clermont were by far and away the best side in Europe last year, but there are genuine reasons for concern for French rugby enthusiasts. It's been a bad year for the French in Europe this year and the national side has been very disappointing since the world cup in 2011.

I suspect one reason may be the attritional nature of the Top 14. In a 26 game league it's hard to play high intensity week in, week out and as such teams settle for playing a slower and more methodical game. That style doesn't translate well into Europe where the intensity is a lot higher and it's very hard to up your tempo of play with the space of week.

 

[Tony Manx]

I agree that Toulon were pretty good last year but that was the first season that they were (and they lost to a pretty poor BO team in the Amlin final only 12 months earlier) but have been so generally poor this season and have scraped out results (except where other teams have fielded weak teams against them (ie Bayonne who shipped 40+ points)) rather than dominated as they should with the pllayers and Coach available!

Clermont have long been the nearly team and I have thought for at least 5 years that they should have dominated as Leinster have, but again they are just doing enough away and relying on their home wins which have, indeed, included some impressive ones...........but why would you go to the Stade Michelin with a really strong team when you can win at BO!! I agree they were the team of the season last year but what did the win.........................Zip!!

 

[Big Ewis]

Definitely, I agree French teams have looked very slow this year. It looks like even the fundamentals aren't working: basic passing, that kinda stuff.

It's pretty funny because France was a side that scored a bunch of sexy tries, and even if French Flair has been dead (or asleep) for a while France still is a side that looks to attack, and the Top 14 isn't comprised of teams that don't have intent offensively...

Clermont can still score a lot but look nothing like last year, while Toulouse have looked much better this year but will still put up sub-par or even WAY sub-par performances....like losing to Connacht at home as uh...as a good example that comes to mind.
Toulon have shown good flair on attack, but Castres looked Castres-ated this year.

Montpellier can put on a show offensively and Perpignan are fine too, but they have been incredibly irregular throughout this entire year.

This weekend in particular has shed light on how English and Irish clubs can be superior: simple, physical and consistent for the one, and good fundamentals and flair on attack for the other.

I think this is all just a continuation of the dark year that 2013 has been for France as a whole in Rugby, and eventually things will pan out more evenly.

I expect France as a side to find its flair soon enough on attack, maybe not this coming 6N, but during perhaps or a bit later.

But yes, perhaps the problem is more fundamental than we think, and on the "Spécialistes du Rugby" show they've touched on that. Players aren't trained with the same style at all in France; fundamentals seem overlooked, and the attack isn't nearly as colorful as it's always been before that.

Even the 2011 RWC side could score with all the unparalleled shyt going on there, or even the 2012 EOYT France squad.

 

[Peat]

I suspect one reason may be the attritional nature of the Top 14. In a 26 game league it's hard to play high intensity week in, week out and as such teams settle for playing a slower and more methodical game. That style doesn't translate well into Europe where the intensity is a lot higher and it's very hard to up your tempo of play with the space of week.

That multiplies if you start picking huge teams to play those slower games, concentrating more on muscle than fitness. I have deep doubts about French fitness at the moment.

I would also question the standards of player development. French sides look increasingly reliant on bringing players in, but that creates cohesion issues.

 

[Tony Manx]

I disagree with the development of players point of view as most clubs do actually have really good "academies" and, for instance Biarritz had five of their youngsters in their team against Worcester last week end and I was thrilled by their performance.

Where I do agree with you is the size issue and Leicester showed today that a skilful scrum that has technique and cohesion can out muscle a heavier pack that does not have those aspects!

I have long wondered about French fitness vis a vis British Isles and SH players and can only go by hearsay from imports how they are shocked at the lack of effort put into it by the French clubs compared to others and also the dire use of pain killers to get injured players back on the pitch way before they are ready or despite injuries recently incurred!

 

[Big Ewis]

French fitness was clearly a problem before, and I'll bet it might still be a bit today but I'm not sure about it.

I watched a documentary about French VS English Rugby ("best enemies") where French players and notable Phillipe Saint-André as a coach were completely mind-boggled by how much gym and lift-weighting players did in England. It was like as much in a week as the French did in two months or something ridiculous like that, I could look it up if someone is interested. So that's the 90's.

I can remember something like our last game of the year in 2010 against the Aussies when they came to Paris. We played a competitive first half, smt like 16-16. And we just stayed there and they went all the way to 16-59. Whether it's fatigue or a lack of fitness remains to be seen, and isn't relevant right now, but such problems only occur with the French.
Have we ever seen a major Tier 1 hold up well for 40 and then get absolutely annihilated the next 40 - at home - like that ? even in an EOYT when many odd things happen.

And don't get me wrong, the Aussies were amazing on attack that year and scored a ton of tries on everyone, even the Boks, twice in their backyard. But both those times the tries came in bunches in the first half, nothing to do with the French situation.
So miscues based on form obviously run amok in French Rugby history, and despite psychological caprices - most of the French inconsistency reality comes from fatigue or fitness, no doubt.

And about nowadays ? Well I think they're just around up to par with the rest...at least the rest of the NH.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not just the French then!!!

Have to say that I felt that I had not enjoyed the weekend overall as much as have in previous years...............is this because the power is conceentrating into fewer clubs hands? How can be when Toulon were s hit and Connacht were just incredible?!!

http://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/l...decline-in-quality-in-the-heineken-cup/102244