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Premiership rugby union club reveals threat of breakaway global league

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From the Guardian today:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/nov/11/rugby-union-violent-breakaway-premiership

• English, French and South African super league planned
• Rival bid on table for eight-team World Club Championship


Secret plans to transform European domestic rugby union are being considered by French and English sides keen to put the professional club game on a firmer financial footing. One leading official from a Premiership club is warning of a possible "violent breakaway" by wealthier European clubs, with teams in South Africa understood to be monitoring the situation.

With a new Heineken Cup season kicking off this weekend, the Guardian can reveal that separate proposals are on the table to create a World Club Championship, bringing together the best eight non-international sides from both hemispheres. The champions of the Aviva Premiership, RaboPro12 and French Top 14 leagues, plus the Heineken Cup winners, would be invited to play the table-topping sides in New Zealand, South Africa and Australia, plus the Super 15 champions.

Money, as usual, is at the heart of the matter. The Heineken Cup is run by European Rugby Cup Ltd which acts on behalf of the unions involved. Tournament turnover has doubled in five years to just over €50m (£43m) but there are many who believe the competition is capable of generating far more. The 12 Premiership clubs receive only around €1m apiece for competing in Europe, although successful teams will earn more through increased sponsorship and gate revenue.

The frustrated clubs are aware the existing five-year ERC accord ends in June, although any stakeholder wishing to exit the tournament is still required to give two years' notice. All the tournament's major TV contracts expire in 2014 and Heineken's title sponsorship deal runs until 2013. The strict salary cap in England remains a further bone of contention for millionaire club owners who, despite the economic turmoil across Europe, are seeking to expand.

"From an English and French clubs' point of view the Heineken Cup is a growing competition but it is essentially controlled by the unions and played by the clubs," said a prominent club figure. "There are some English and French clubs who do not regard that as an ideal situation. There is also a growing weariness in South Africa with Sanzar [South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby]. They feel they're at a playing disadvantage by constantly having to travel and, despite having more commercial pulling power, do not get a proportionally bigger share of the revenue. They feel South Africa is subsidising Australia and New Zealand, which are relatively small markets."

If Saracens' experiment of playing a Heineken Cup pool match in Cape Town in January proves a commercial success it will encourage those who believe the world's best club competition should not be restricted to six countries. A global calendar, with more rugby scheduled in the northern hemisphere summer, is on the wishlist. "My suspicion is that you're not going to get these sort of changes by consensus," the source added. "There will be a violent breakaway, probably. All the ingredients are there. If you look at the countries with maximum television rights and sponsorship potential – England, France and South Africa – they're all in the same time zone. Any sort of alliance between them would have serious consequences for Australia, New Zealand and the Celtic unions as well. There are certain common interests which might lead to some kind of [new] competition but there is still an awful lot of detail to be worked through."

The ramifications of any split would be enormous, not least for the Rugby Football Union and the French Rugby Federation. There will be shivers of alarm in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, who do not boast such large populations. A less apocalyptic scenario being pursued by Premiership Rugby, the body which represents the 12 leading English clubs, is to stage more offshore games. They believe European club rugby could emulate golf, which holds regular PGA Tour events in Asia and the Middle East.

Mark McCafferty, Premiership Rugby's chief executive, acknowledges fixture congestion and player welfare remain major concerns but confirms a World Club Championship is back on the agenda: "We have ambitious clubs and we'll look to see if we can create these things. Europe has got to continue to be ambitious and push the boundaries. Sometimes we get frustrated about the pace of progress. It has come a long way in a few years but I think it can go even further. One of the advantages of a recession is that people realise you have to do things differently to generate interest. We're inching towards a scenario where there might be more frequent competitive matches between northern and southern hemisphere clubs, not just friendlies."

The surprise re-election of Jean Pierre Lux as ERC chairman ahead of England's Peter Wheeler has irked the bigger clubs, with McCafferty calling for a third European competition to be introduced to expand the game beyond its traditional heartlands. "We feel there needs to be a stronger form of leadership and governance within ERC. We've got to try and embrace the emerging countries: Russia, Spain, Romania, Georgia etc. The Heineken Cup shouldn't just be limited to six countries."

Others, though, insist the current formula is fine. Derek McGrath, ERC's chief executive, is a fan of Saracens' Cape Town initiative but says the existing structure is largely working. "At the moment in Europe we're probably talking to a loyal rugby audience of 30 million. We believe there's a potential loyal audience of 70 million in Europe and, clearly, a lot more globally. Rugby is back in the Olympics and there is no question that is opening doors already. But our broadcasters and sponsors are saying they want to see stability. This tournament is still on an upward curve. Our objective is for the Heineken Cup to be the most competitive tournament in the world. We want to expand our frontiers."

Leinster's chief executive Mick Dawson cast doubt on the wisdom of English and French clubs attempting to break away. "I'm on ERC's commercial and marketing committee and I know the English clubs well. I'd say the monies generated by the TV contracts are quite big and competitive. Everyone says 'You can get more money' until they actually have to go and get it. Is there a whole pot load of money out there that we're missing? I doubt it."

The Irish province, the European champions, has seen its turnover figures quadruple inside seven years under the existing format. "The thing about running away is that you need people to play against. I think the Heineken Cup is elite enough at the moment. Winning it gives you serious credibility and it's easier to sell your wares. You can't buy what it does for you."
 
Would've thought someone would have been bleating on about this on here before? :p


I wonder who the "prominent premiership" guy is?
Presumably whoever's in charge of Saracens these days
 
Tell me if this was mentioned in the article, but I couldn't see it: Where in the year is it going to fit in? There's about fifteen minutes between seasons and that is a quarter of an hour block occupied by the Tri-Nations. (I'll never get use to saying The Rugby Championship) They're proposing to keepy the leagues and the HC in place as well, so I have no idea how this'll work in any more than a financial manor.
 
It's just a power play by the top clubs in France and England.

A new claiming to be a de facto European tournament won't work without the involvement of the Pro 12 teams. How could it when the bulk of Wales' World Cup semi final team won't be in it, nor would Munster and Leinster who've won 4 of the last 6 Heineken Cups? There won't be two competitions. Either a new competition featuring all the 6 Nations will replace the ERC or the ERC will evolve with clubs having more of a say. I'm guessing the latter will be the case.
 
Its just threats to get a bigger slice of the pie. It won't happen.

I'd agree about actively expending rugby throughout Europe. Its happening slowly (lots of rugby show on tele in some European countries) but it could be quickened up.
 
Well, that's interesting. Harlequins, top of the Aviva Premiership get a narrow win over unfancied Celtic Connacht; and Racing Metro go down at home to Cardiff on the first day of this season's Heineken. Perhaps the proposal is for a second division league under the Celtic leaders!:)

David
 
South Africa leaving SANZAR? That's the 12th time they've threatened that this week...

Well, on one side it means that we'll lose many of the competitive match ups between SA clubs and NZ clubs, and a lack of money in the NZ game, but at least the SARU would be someone elses problem.
 
it seems like rugby is in a pretty messed up period at the moment.... I wonder if all the changes that are going on will benefit the sport later on.... I hope so because I'm tired of learning rugby over and over again every year
 
Apart from Leinster and Munster, none of the celtic teams are seen as serious players.
On the field, I'd agree with you but pro sport in general is increasingly about market sizes and increasing revenue streams. Ulster have a potential market of 1.5 million. Edinburgh and Glasgow have markets of about 1 million. Cardiff's in in the region of 500,000. There are just two Italian franchises in a TV market of 70 million. That's a lot of potential revenue I can't see a breakaway league wanting to ignore.
 
On the field, I'd agree with you but pro sport in general is increasingly about market sizes and increasing revenue streams. Ulster have a potential market of 1.5 million. Edinburgh and Glasgow have markets of about 1 million. Cardiff's in in the region of 500,000. There are just two Italian franchises in a TV market of 70 million. That's a lot of potential revenue I can't see a breakaway league wanting to ignore.

Which would be true if it wasnt for the fact that Ulster,Edinburgh and Glasgow are football through and through with it being more than just a sport to fans of teams like Celtic and Hearts. Rugby will not get any bigger in south Wales if anything more people will turn to Man united than Cardiff blues.

Dont see how people can get more money out of rugby given the economic climate and footballs total dominance of everything sport. Perhaps we should stop trying and just enjoy what we have, or even down scale a bit. Instead of playing in half empty soccer grounds in Glasgow or Swansea we should go back to the rugby heartlands such at the Scottish borders or the valley towns of South Wales. Rugby (unlike football) is after all a players sport not a fans sport.
 
Apart from Leinster and Munster, none of the celtic teams are seen as serious players.

Teh: have a look at the results from the weekend and compare the RaboBank teams with the Guiness Premiership and French teams.

Would a league between SA, France and England be viable? In terms of development England ought to be looking to join the Rabo, admittedly it brings in smaller crowds on average but the overall standard is better and looking at the new generation of Welsh, Irish and Scottish players it is clearly more efficient at nurturing talent.

Had a long weekend in Spain and a French guy was talking about the option of 6 nation countries running a mutual league, so French, Welsh, Italian, English, Irish and Scottish teams...don't think I like the sound of that though as I think some of the smaller teams with less money would suffer, particularly in competition with the French giants. Plus it would devalue the Heineken which is a fantastic competition.
 
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"but the overall standard is better and looking at the new generation of Welsh, Irish and Scottish players it is clearly more efficient at nurturing talent."

Bit of a bold statement with only one round played.....
 
Why would English teams be trying to join the Pro 12?
That's a joke.

It's fine as it is - you've got the Prem and the Pro 12 (and the Top14) then the top teams face each other in the Heineken.


Also, England have a f**k load of talent coming through, that's a VERY ignorant statement to make.
 
"but the overall standard is better and looking at the new generation of Welsh, Irish and Scottish players it is clearly more efficient at nurturing talent."

Bit of a bold statement with only one round played.....

Agreed, but funnily enough many of the 'experts' and 'pundits' (and no doubt several fans) would have us believing that saying more than three Pro 12 teams winning in this weekend past was a bold statement.

The concord is a little awry there, but you get the picture.

I don't expect there to be a serious chorus of 'Pro 12 is better than AP and Top 14', all are good leagues, I just guess people are fed up with the Pro 12 being labeled a second class league because most clubs don't have the spending power of their counterparts.
 
only the Cardiff Blues won away

I expect several of those results to be overturned when the Pro12 teams have to travel
 
Teh: have a look at the results from this weekend and compare the RaboBank teams with the Guiness Premiership and French teams.

Would a league between SA, France and England be viable? In terms of development England ought to be looking to join the Rabo, admittedly it brings in smaller crowds on average but the overall standard is better and looking at the new generation of Welsh, Irish and Scottish players it is clearly more efficient at nurturing talent.

You might want to look at the results after this weekend. See how Scarlets get on at Saints, and Blues against Irish.

As for the standard in the RABO being better, erm no it's not it is ok but not better.

As for young talent, the RABO has the young talent spread across 10 teams across three different countries, so the Welsh have four regions with a max of 60 players starting in the first teams at weekends. The English has what around 180 players starting for the first team every weekend. So the potential pool and deph of youth and talent is considerable compared to the Welsh, Irish and Scots unions. Northampton alone has five England players all 26 or under.
 
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I think it's ridiculous that anyone could think the Pro 12 isn't needed for a World Club competition. Munster arguably made the Heineken cup what it was because nobody really gave a **** about it before '00 and since the Celtic league was formed Premiership sides have won 3 HEC's Toulose 3 and Pro 12 teams 4 all of which were in the last 5 years. So basically after being given 5 years to grow and progress the Pro 12 is almost completely dominant of European rugby and if it were given the sort of hype the French give the Top 14 and Sky give the premiership it would be seen as at least an equal standard of Rugby.
 
I think it's ridiculous that anyone could think the Pro 12 isn't needed for a World Club competition. Munster arguably made the Heineken cup what it was because nobody really gave a **** about it before '00 and since the Celtic league was formed Premiership sides have won 3 HEC's Toulose 3 and Pro 12 teams 4 all of which were in the last 5 years. So basically after being given 5 years to grow and progress the Pro 12 is almost completely dominant of European rugby and if it were given the sort of hype the French give the Top 14 and Sky give the premiership it would be seen as at least an equal standard of Rugby.

No it isn't, Munster and Leinster do not represent the entire "league". Those 2 IRISH regional sides have had good success in the past 4 years. The regular standards of their competition in the HEC (Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Sicillian) is routinely below par in the European cup. That means 2 sides have been strong, not a league.

Much as for the past couple of years Saracens have been the Premiership team to beat. In Europe though the power remains in the East Midlands.

A couple of teams are not part of a competition family. There are good games and shitty games in all competitions.
 
HEC 2011
Quarter Finalists: 4 Top14, 2 Pro12 (Not Munster), 2 Prem
Eventual Winners Leinster

2010
QF's: 4 Top 14, 3 Pro12, 1 Prem
EW's Toulose

2009:
QF's: 4 Pro 12, 3 Prem, 1 Top 14
EW's Munster

2008:
QF's 3 Pro 12 (Not Leinster), 3 Prem, 2 Top 14
EW's Munster

2007:
QF's 3 Prem, 3 Pro 12, 2 Top 14
EW's Wasps

2006:
QF's 3 Prem, 3 Top 14, 2 Pro 12
EW's Munster



So basically in the past three years premiership teams have outnumbered the Pro 12 sides once and leveled 3 times and have been outnumbered twice so you can hardly say only Leinster and Munster have been better than Premiership sides. Only Leicester and Northampton (in the last two seasons) have been seen 'players in Europe.
 
Come on TEH MITE don't you know that the Celtic leaguee is renowned for producing the best most competitive clubs in Europe/ WTF is this person on about.

Leinster and Munster are very good granted but lets look at the rest of the League... Connacht = significantly sub par akin to having Worcester or Falcons in the mix, Ulster, well they are like Bath some good players but never going to win anything ATM, The scottish clubs are on their beginning of season doing ok streak but will probably smash out afterall they only beat Bath and Irish, Italian clubs aren't going to win it and the Welsh clubs show alot of potential and could win it but it is to be decided whether they willl. I don't see a world beating League here and afterall the only clubs worth putting your money on in the Heine are the East Midlands gang, Lunster and the top French sides.
 
Ha, so you've gone from saying that apart from Leinster and Munster the celtic league is below the level of the premiership from changing your words to say that apart from 2 teams of each league there all below par to make me seem like I'm arguing ,basically, myself and I'm being an idiot. And you'll probably deny all of this and come up with some smart arse answer to once again make me look like some sort of fool. So maybe we can just leave it here and agree to disagree or whatever before we get into a pointless ******* contest, which to be honest I don't want to have.
 
Hardly. Each competition has a couple of exceptional teams, several good teams and a couple who are pretty crap but still capable of the odd decent performance.

You can't tar an entire league based on a couple of performances. By definition, a league doesn't work like that.
 
Indeed, its not that the Magners is infinitely inferior to the premiership but its that on the basis of one weekends results, ok and repeated Heine finals, there seems to be a consensus amongst some the the Magners is suddenly head and tails aboove the rest when, frankly, it isn't. It sits at a similar level to the premiership some years it is better others it is worse - in terms of overall quality. Leinster is the best in the northern Hemishpere, Ospreys are pretty damn good and Munster are good as well. But as a whole the standard is not really that much higher or lower than the premiership.... in both the crap clubs are crap and the good clubs are good.
 

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