South Africa v Ireland - 13 July 2024

[TRF_stormer2010]

King's Park, Durban

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Kwagga Smith, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Gerhard Steenekamp, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 RG Snyman, 21 Marco van Staden, 22 Grant Williams, 23 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu

vs

Will post Irish line up when available.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland by 4

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can't wait for this to be over. Bring on half watching the Rugby Championship and not caring about the result as I eat my breakfast, that's all I can give rugby right now.

 

[big ginger 8]

Unchanged 23 from SA.

Also Karl Dickson is reffing this...ugh.

 

[rN_X]

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Kwagga Smith, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Gerhard Steenekamp, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 RG Snyman, 21 Marco van Staden, 22 Grant Williams, 23 Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu.

Boks by 15

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Unchanged 23 from SA.

Also Karl Dickson is reffing this...ugh.

So unfair that we got two English refs in a row.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Also Karl Dickson is reffing this...ugh.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Wanted to see changes at 9 and 3 and also another backs replacement in place of Moerat but fair enough, give the boys another go. Would like to see more time for SFM.

 

[rN_X]

Wanted to see changes at 9 and 3 and also another backs replacement in place of Moerat but fair enough, give the boys another go. Would like to see more time for SFM.

Issue with Frans vs Porter have been identified. Porter pulling you forward before engage making it look like ans early sure it will be sorted. Faf need to sort his stuff out there is plenty of 9's pushing. Think we have around 5 that can start with ease.

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Can't wait for this to be over. Bring on half watching the Rugby Championship and not caring about the result as I eat my breakfast, that's all I can give rugby right now.

You can give more than I can at the moment.
I can watch the kids, because it's not more of the same - even there, I can only bring myself to watch the England match. I can probably watch England in NZ, because it's England, in NZ... beyond that, I need a break after the last 12 months (and my gradually re-kindling interest with Covid and stupid competition formats), gods alone know how the players feel!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Issue with Frans vs Porter have been identified. Porter pulling you forward before engage making it look like ans early sure it will be sorted. Faf need to sort his stuff out there is plenty of 9's pushing. Think we have around 5 that can start with ease.

I felt there was that element but even so we add more around the park with a lot of the back up options without giving an inch in the scrum. I understand TdT hasn't been in the alignment camps and with a new coaching setup that'll count heavily against you but Fouche and Louw add so much more outside of the scrum.

My issue at 9 and 10 is we have depth in both in terms of players being at the same level relative too each other (particularly at 9) but no-one pushing for a world XV. Put just about any other starting 9/10 pairing in behind our pack with the likes of Kriel, Arendse, Kolbe and Le Roux outside and DDA as a bail-out receiver and there is no competition.

 

[rN_X]

I felt there was that element but even so we add more around the park with a lot of the back up options without giving an inch in the scrum. I understand TdT hasn't been in the alignment camps and with a new coaching setup that'll count heavily against you but Fouche and Louw add so much more outside of the scrum.

My issue at 9 and 10 is we have depth in both in terms of players being at the same level relative too each other (particularly at 9) but no-one pushing for a world XV. Put just about any other starting 9/10 pairing in behind our pack with the likes of Kriel, Arendse, Kolbe and Le Roux outside and DDA as a bail-out receiver and there is no competition.

Louw can feel hard done. Fouche is good but I feel it's too late. Frans does tend to put in the defensive work.

Good thing about boks is the system. Players don't have to be the best in the world they just need to be great at a spesific skill the coach is looking for.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You can give more than I can at the moment.
I can watch the kids, because it's not more of the same - even there, I can only bring myself to watch the England match. I can probably watch England in NZ, because it's England, in NZ... beyond that, I need a break after the last 12 months (and my gradually re-kindling interest with Covid and stupid competition formats), gods alone know how the players feel!

I doubt I'll watch England v NZ apart from flicking on the last 20 while having brekky. Didn't watch Ireland last week because I was at an event, first game I've missed since the Japan tours where they were on in the middle of the night in 2017 I think.

To be honest, in what has been a successful year for us so far, the only games I've enjoyed were Leinster v La Rochelle and Saints. Jaded.

 

[big ginger 8]

Everyone trained today so looks like our only injuries are Sheehan and Casey.

 

[Becca]

Everyone trained today so looks like our only injuries are Sheehan and Casey.

Well that’s positive news for you.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Deec, all things considered.

Don't love 22 and 23. Feel like both of their presences are needless with Jimmy and Ringer. Would have preferred Prendo and Nash.

 

[munstermuffin]

Deec, all things considered.

Don't love 22 and 23. Feel like both of their presences are needless with Jimmy and Ringer. Would have preferred Prendo and Nash.

Jimmy O'Brien not in 23 and Nash starting.

Correct call to drop POM and well Doris is the next captain so no issue there.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Looks like Andy wants to add some beef. If so, why not start McCloskey at 12?

I don't know anything about Blade. Will he add some juice once he gets on? As I said in the other thread, I am not a fan of Murray. But it appears that Andy wants to initiate a kicking/territory game. That could work, unless the Boks score early and start applying scoreboard pressure. Then you need to play catch up with Murray--good luck with that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jimmy O'Brien not in 23 and Nash starting.

Correct call to drop POM and well Doris is the next captain so no issue there.

Oh skipped over that with the rumoured teams. Not happy with that, severe lack of pace continues.

 

[munstermuffin]

Oh skipped over that with the rumoured teams. Not happy with that, severe lack of pace continues.

Rumours are Jimmy O B not going great in camp over and had poor end to season. Not sure if true but would think he would be a better option on bench like Frawley covers 10 but it an unbalanced bench. Osborne I know can cover wing but I'd rather he didn't he is out of position at 15 (despite doing very well) but is a centre or 15 not a wing. And off bench if a winger goes down then it is a disaster. Yes Ringrose can go out there but Ringrose is important to defence at 13. Just seems rushed.

Also have heard that certain coaching personnel have been told they have until Christmas to get certain things right or there will be changes for 6 Nations.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Rumours are Jimmy O B not going great in camp over and had poor end to season. Not sure if true but would think he would be a better option on bench like Frawley covers 10 but it an unbalanced bench. Osborne I know can cover wing but I'd rather he didn't he is out of position at 15 (despite doing very well) but is a centre or 15 not a wing. And off bench if a winger goes down then it is a disaster. Yes Ringrose can go out there but Ringrose is important to defence at 13. Just seems rushed.

Also have heard that certain coaching personnel have been told they have until Christmas to get certain things right or there will be changes for 6 Nations.

He wasn't great at 15 but looked dangerous when on the wing, should have been in the q4 jersey for the final. If we're not picking good players because they don't train well, it's stupid. You hear of, and see, loads of guys that don't train well but play well.

My main issue is how slow we are. We finished with a back three where Nash was the fastest player. He'd be the slowest in either back three playing in Auckland on Saturday.

 

[big ginger 8]

Would rather have kept Beirne in the row put McCarthy on the bench and Baird at 6. Don't really like Baird and POM on the bench together and think Beirne isn't as rangy as he used to be playing at 6.

Wouldn't have minded Jimmy at 14 but wonder if Farrell didn't want an all left footed back 3.

Agree with TAB on not really liking Frawley and McCloskey as our back subs. In general we're lacking a lot of impact off this bench. Good players but only really trust Baird and maybe McCloskey or POM to bring any game breaking potential at the moment.

Hopefully Blade will play more like he did over previous seasons than this one just gone and bring some tempo with him.

 

[munstermuffin]

He wasn't great at 15 but looked dangerous when on the wing, should have been in the q4 jersey for the final. If we're not picking good players because they don't train well, it's stupid. You hear of, and see, loads of guys that don't train well but play well.

My main issue is how slow we are. We finished with a back three where Nash was the fastest player. He'd be the slowest in either back three playing in Auckland on Saturday.

Not disagreeing. Just that is the word. I think Nash is faster than Lowe by a bit but obviously not as powerful. I think it balance. If Frawley is there then 23 should be a Jimmy O'Brien type who can play all back 3 spots. We effectively have 2 12s on bench. 1 of whom can play 10.

 

[munstermuffin]

Would rather have kept Beirne in the row put McCarthy on the bench and Baird at 6. Don't really like Baird and POM on the bench together and think Beirne isn't as rangy as he used to be playing at 6.

Wouldn't have minded Jimmy at 14 but wonder if Farrell didn't want an all left footed back 3.

Agree with TAB on not really liking Frawley and McCloskey as our back subs. In general we're lacking a lot of impact off this bench. Good players but only really trust Baird and maybe McCloskey or POM to bring any game breaking potential at the moment.

Hopefully Blade will play more like he did over previous seasons than this one just gone and bring some tempo with him.

Issue is if I was betting man. Baird comes on at lock which weakens the team or Baird @6 and POM @7 which weakens team. They both are 6s.

 

[unrated]

I doubt I'll watch England v NZ apart from flicking on the last 20 while having brekky. Didn't watch Ireland last week because I was at an event, first game I've missed since the Japan tours where they were on in the middle of the night in 2017 I think.

To be honest, in what has been a successful year for us so far, the only games I've enjoyed were Leinster v La Rochelle and Saints. Jaded.

I can understand how you feel after such a tight year where you and other Leinster and Ireland fans put so much hope into finally being the year. Being favourites in the eyes of many at the world cup along with France, Leinster now going three years being the favourite for the URC and falling short and then also the Champions cup disappointments would have hurt so I can see why any strong rugby fan would would start questioning it all. But keep your chin up, both teams are still very strong and can have some good runs going forward. Rugby goes through cycles, I have had to deal with my domestic team being favourites in some form for every year since that 2007 super rugby final due to their big name players and have not won a major intercontinental tournament yet.

Even if you take a break, remember to enjoy this great Irish generation while it lasts.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cg3jg12ynlyoThis is a great idea.

 

[Saintjay]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cg3jg12ynlyoThis is a great idea.

Might be a stupid question but can you actually do that under employment law. Jobs for only the Irish kind of thing. I'm assuming you can or else he wouldn't have said it.

 

[Groundhog]

Might be a stupid question but can you actually do that under employment law. Jobs for only the Irish kind of thing. I'm assuming you can or else he wouldn't have said it.

I'm absolutely not qualified to answer this question, but surely if we follow this logic the same could be said for people with disabilities, women etc.

 

[Saintjay]

I'm absolutely not qualified to answer this question, but surely if we follow this logic the same could be said for people with disabilities, women etc.

I think some things you can based on capability and rules of the competition. Womens rugby, age grade etc. You have to have good evidence as to doing so.

Like you I'm definitely not qualified on this, just thought it's a good question. Some one might know the correct answer.

 

[big ginger 8]

IQ does not mean someone is Irish. It means they're qualified to play for Ireland which is a subtle but important distinction. Sport is also recognised as different to a normal working environment and gets a certain leeway.