Exeter on the bloody moan already...

[Teh Mite]

Funding 'disgusts' Exeter CEO

Chiefs CEO criticises Premiership "old boys' club"

With just two weeks to go before the start of the new season, Exeter CEO Tony Rowe has labelled the funding on offer to the Aviva Premiership newcomers as "disgusting".
Having only confirmed their status in the top flight in May when they beat Bristol in a play-off, the Chiefs have been behind their new rivals in terms of recruitment and planning.
However their cause has been hindered further because, having never been a part of the top division before, they will receive less than half of the £2.5m of central funding handed out to other clubs.
"The way the Premiership is set up, it's an old boys' club in that the longer you're there, the more money you get," Rowe told The Daily Telegraph.
"Everything is stacked against us. We've got one hand tied behind our back. I think it's disgusting."
Upset

Exeter must also spend six seasons in the Premiership to qualify for the full £1.75m of parachute payments handed to relegated clubs.
"I let Premier Rugby know how upset my management team was over that," Rowe said.
"We are massively disadvantaged."
Even so, Rowe is confident the Chiefs can overcome such hurdles and confirmed they will still spend up to the limit of the £4.23m salary cap, something many promoted teams in the past have failed to do.
"We can overcome all this," he added.
"I'm a half-full rather than a half-empty person. We're the only club that has ticked all the boxes on minimum criteria coming up. We've got a massive responsibility to our supporters. We're the senior sporting club in the West Country."


http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12331_6320819,00.html

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Well they wouldn't be a Premiership club if they didn't have a moan to the press, they're just trying to fit in

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

He does have a point though. It's hardly fair for a new team to get less than the established teams. Then again this is the RFU and they've always been an "Old Boys" club.

As for the "senior sporting club in the West Country." I think Bristol City FC will have something to say about that. And actually Bristol Rugby are a bigger club too, we have a far bigger and established history than Exeter.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

He does have a point though. It's hardly fair for a new team to get less than the established teams. Then again this is the RFU and they've always been an "Old Boys" club.

As for the "senior sporting club in the West Country." I think Bristol City FC will have something to say about that. And actually Bristol Rugby are a bigger club too, we have a far bigger and established history than Exeter.

This!

Money wise I think Exeter should be given a little more to help them at least give them a chance to stay up.

 

[munstermuffin]

This is bit annoying because it sucks that every team that goes up seems to fly straight back down out of Premiership and well I think newest club up should get majority of money and try make league as competitive as can be

 

[Prestwick]

This is the thing, we need to decide what exactly we want the Premiership to be? We can't angrily reject ring fencing as it discourages development of rugby in England, unfairly punishes any club outside of the existing 12 - 16 top clubs, etc and then tut and eyeroll when one of these new clubs complains that they're being unfairly treated.

In my view there needs to be a settlement of some kind here because we keep having the same two arguments every season.

 

[Thingimubob]

Its interesting to compare this to the what happens in the Premier League. I remember there was a big focus in the build up to the Cardiff v Blackpool play off about that it was a match worth £90 million. That figure includes the whole ''parachute payments'' if they end up getting relegated (which is very likely in Blackpools case), so I was wondering, is there a similar system in place in the Aviva Premiership? Obviously it's not gonna be anywhere near the same kind of figures as the Premier League, but still do relegated clubs get anything to help them as they go down to the Championship?

 

[Teh Mite]

There is a "parachute payment" as such, but it is more like a savings account run by the the PRL then just money handed out; Every year all 12 Premiership clubs pay in 'x' amount of pounds to the kitty and claim their share back when they go down. Because 2 million is a lot to pay out in one year, they build up to the amount they can claim over time.

Exeter were a bunch of arses towards Saints a few years back, constantly moaning about Parachute Payments as the only reason they kept their big name players and that was stopping them form being promoted etc. (completely ignoring the fact that Saints are something like the 2nd biggest club behind Leicester outside of France, them 2 being the only pro clubs with enough of their own income that they actually make a profit every year - Even when they were in ND1).

The system isn't perfect, but the odds are always stacked against any team who reaches the top flight. I didn't hear Leeds moaning about it last year, who arguably had a harder job ahead of them then Exeter now do with a smaller fanbase and fewer resources atr their disposal; They for a start couldn't afford to spend £4.25m on wages this year.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

Bullit I totally understand the temptation of not having any competition and keeping the premiership all the same every year by making sure the new boys dont stand a chance (heaven forbid Saints go down again ) its very cosy at the top.

I'm an Exeter fan so I'm biased but money talks in rugby, and the ability of clubs to plan ahead for a season in the premiership is very important. If you imagine the premiership as a 100m race Exeter are starting 10 meters behind everyone else, all the big signings are done and we have no big name people, a real worry. I know Leeds did it last year and full credit to them, I hope we do the same, but it must have been very tough.
Exeter have spent 10 years working and building towards this. We have our own ground, our own facilities, and a business model that has allowed amazing expantion. There probably is a slight chip on the shoulder after knocking in the door for so long watching teams being gifted millions by the RFU spring straight back up while Exe has had to work very hard to get every penny. Also Northhampton would not have kept all of its players, staff, coaches etc. without the parachute, and rugby is a game won and lost on fine lines sometimes, history could have been very different.

My other problem with the 'old boys' sentiment is that it will keep rugby a very closed game based around a few clubs mostly in the london orbital and the midlands. What encouragement is there for fans to get behind a local team if they know that no matter what they will never get anywhere? Its great if you live in one of those areas but is as easy to get to Gloucester from Scotland as from west Cornwall and they are being touted as in the same 'south west' area of the country' (look it up). Smaller clubs nurture talent and get people involved, in Exeter the rise of the Chiefs has really sparked an interest and getting into the premiership has lead to sell out crowds. Compare this with the situation 14 years ago when I first started watching at the county ground. Clubs in the championship are really struggling (ask what they would do with £2.5 million). I really hope if the Chiefs do stay up the management remember what it was like and keep shouting for more competition, in the end it will be better for rugby. As much as it pains me to say it I would love to see the Pirates get into the premiership, they are a good club with great fans (I'd like the South West derby back too).

Rant over, back to work.

 

[Teh Mite]

Bullit I totally understand the temptation of not having any competition and keeping the premiership all the same every year by making sure the new boys dont stand a chance (heaven forbid Saints go down again ) its very cosy at the top.

I'm an Exeter fan so I'm biased but money talks in rugby, and the ability of clubs to plan ahead for a season in the premiership is very important. If you imagine the premiership as a 100m race Exeter are starting 10 meters behind everyone else, all the big signings are done and we have no big name people, a real worry. I know Leeds did it last year and full credit to them, I hope we do the same, but it must have been very tough.
Exeter have spent 10 years working and building towards this. We have our own ground, our own facilities, and a business model that has allowed amazing expantion. There probably is a slight chip on the shoulder after knocking in the door for so long watching teams being gifted millions by the RFU spring straight back up while Exe has had to work very hard to get every penny. Also Northhampton would not have kept all of its players, staff, coaches etc. without the parachute, and rugby is a game won and lost on fine lines sometimes, history could have been very different.

My other problem with the 'old boys' sentiment is that it will keep rugby a very closed game based around a few clubs mostly in the london orbital and the midlands. What encouragement is there for fans to get behind a local team if they know that no matter what they will never get anywhere? Its great if you live in one of those areas but is as easy to get to Gloucester from Scotland as from west Cornwall and they are being touted as in the same 'south west' area of the country' (look it up). Smaller clubs nurture talent and get people involved, in Exeter the rise of the Chiefs has really sparked an interest and getting into the premiership has lead to sell out crowds. Compare this with the situation 14 years ago when I first started watching at the county ground. Clubs in the championship are really struggling (ask what they would do with £2.5 million). I really hope if the Chiefs do stay up the management remember what it was like and keep shouting for more competition, in the end it will be better for rugby. As much as it pains me to say it I would love to see the Pirates get into the premiership, they are a good club with great fans (I'd like the South West derby back too).

Rant over, back to work.

Utter ********. It's worth noting that the likes of Euan Murray and Chris Ashton joined Saints after they were relegated.

Teams like Newcastle and Sale would struggle, but Saints, Tigers, Gloucester and a couple of others have more then enough means to generate sustainability outside of the rugby alone.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

Utter ********. It's worth noting that the likes of Euan Murray and Chris Ashton joined Saints after they were relegated.

Teams like Newcastle and Sale would struggle, but Saints, Tigers, Gloucester and a couple of others have more then enough means to generate sustainability outside of the rugby alone.

Not sure how that proves that the parachute payment had no effect, if anything that supports the idea the parachute payment was what allowed Saints to keep going at that level. If £1.75 million is insignificant to Saints then it just shows how distant you are from the rest of rugby around the country. I bet Bristol would kill for that money now. I have nothing against clubs being successful but slamming the door on everyone else is not right.

The arrogance grates a little but its a funny game sometimes and it would be interesting to think what would have happened if what happened to Bristol had happened to Northampton under the new system. A one year walkover tour of the regions is one thing but all it takes now is one bad night at the end of the season and you aren't bouncing straight back up. How many top flight players would have stayed then?

Also due to my extreme sadness I looked up Saints annual report (strangely the one from the 2007/08 season isn't on the web) the 2006 and 2009 reports clearly state that the parachute payment is needed to go straight back up in the case of relegation...

 

[Teh Mite]

Give over this "woah is us" bullshit, I got bored of that 3 years ago. Exeter did well to get promoted and well done to them, but the club and their fans need to stop giving out wax lyrical like they're being hard done by just because they don't have the resources that other clubs do. It was the exact same bloody thing during the demolition tour; "boo-hooo, we don't have as much as them, nor the players to actually compete, so we're the ones being hard done by here".

**** happens. Saints getting relegated is akin to Newcastle (United) going down; A massive club with enough money and quality throughout their squad (not to mention a massive & loyal fanbase) to survive relegation and easily bounce back. The fact they went down in the first place is more due to crappy business decisions and politics destroying the on-field performances. Really they should never have found themselves in a position to get relegated in the first place, but they did so used it to positive effect and used it as a rebuilding exercise. Much the same as Leeds the following season.

Bristols situation is a world away from other clubs, they've been knackered for a long time money wise (not even owning their own ground any more so they can't rely on income from that sums it up).

If Exeter manage to avoid the drop this year, well done to them because it's going to be a chuffing difficult task ahead of them. However if Newcastle (Falcons, that is) do manage to pull off the great escape, I suspect Exeters opinions on parachute payments will very rapidly change.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

Its not really a question of 'Woe is us' its 'can we have the same deal as everyone else please?' that is all Tony Rowe was asking for. I dont mind if Exeter get killed in every match (I do mind really but I'll accept it) when we have had the same chance as everyone else rather than less than half of what all the other teams get. Do we want the aviva premiership to be the same as the football with four or five big teams dominating the sport and everyone else struggling? You only have to look at the football World Cup this year to see that that doesnt work in the long term.

Saracens and London Irish dont fully own their own ground, Leeds shares with two other sports! Does that mean they will go the same way as Bristol? Bear in mind Exeter owns its own ground...

Exeter are just refusing to be the good new boys and accept their whipping before going back in the corner where they belong. This goes back to my previous point about competition in rugby, how are teams meant to aspire to bigger things if they are not being supported by a body that is supposed to be impartial? Rugby will have no depth and will not expand as a sport.

I (like most Chiefs fans I expect) am just looking forward to being up there, if we stay up then great, if we dont then I hope we can build for the future. What I dont want is for the club to be tempted or forced to take silly risks to try to stay in the top tier (like it looks Bristol did) before crashing back down in real trouble.

You may feel Northampton among others have an automatic right to be in the premiership but I dont feel any club should have that.

 

[Teh Mite]

Oh for god sake.

Firstly, I'm the biggest advocate of expanding the Premiership to 14 teams and having a 2 up/2 down system, thus expanding the league and making more of a chance for the ND1 clubs to come up and thrive. Most fans would like to see this.

There isn't some frat-boys party saying "ye-hah, this is our exclusive" between the established big clubs, and if you paid close attention you'd realise that all clubs (bar Wasps) get desperately ****** off by the Union who screw over ALL teams to their own benefit.

There's no expecting Exeter to "be the good new boys" going on, unlike what clearly appears to be the vibe coming out. If Exeter want their end of season payment to be the same as every other club would be entitled to when relegated, they best avoid it for a few seasons so they can put some money in the kitty then. It's not free cash that they're handed; It's (for wan't of a better description) a savings account which the PRL take care of and everybody pays a contribution into each season... Clubs Like Leicester still pay into it although they've not looked like a team who'd get relegated ever in their history. Them be the same rules as everyone else has to play to, so why should Exeter get a special dispensation just because they took so long to join the party?

There's me thinking Socialists were supposed to come from the North.

If this is the way things have started, Exe aren't going to win any friends over the course of the season, clubs or the union alike. It's almost like the bleating Venter and Griffiths were starting last season about being hard done by, only talking non-stop about money instead of the laws.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

The parachute payment, fair enough Ill accept that (though it seems to be more like an insurance policy rather than a savings account and Ive not heard of an insurance policy not paying out just because youve only just joined) but why shouldnt the Chiefs get the same central grant as everyone else?

Its not that I'm socialist (weirdly my job is to fight socialists) but I know how much work has gone into Exeter going up. It is in fact real capitalism, Exeter took their capital, took their risk and it paid out now its a matter of getting as established as possible. My fear is that what is going on comes across as protectionism not a free market.

I'm glad we agree that the league needs reform to bring the Championship clubs up, but it wont happen unless there is a clear signal that they will be supported, and a more level playing field. What is happening now is like a small corner shop trying to take on TESCO or ASDA, they are always going to lose, but without them alot of innovation and community involvement is lost.

The post is entitled 'Exeter on the bloody moan again...' because the Chief Exec questioned (in his own unique tactful style) why we should get less than every other team in the league. I know you feel we moaned when you came on your tour to the National 1, fine, I was probably one of those moaners bored to tears with the yo-yo. We are here now and want to stay and want to stay under our own steam but if all the other teams get gifted £2.5 Million and Exeter get £1 Million then that isn't a good starting point.

Talking money may seem very boring for a rich club but for the others its a matter of survival, if you dont fight for it you dont survive.

 

[Teh Mite]

What 'gift' are you talking about?

The only payouts are for the EPS (where every club gets the same figure regardless of how many players they provide for England) and the Parachute Payment (which gradually increases depending on how much the club has put into their own rainy-day fund).

I've clearly missed something here or you've got the wrong end of a long stick.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

From the original article: 'However their cause has been hindered further because, having never been a part of the top division before, they will receive less than half of the £2.5m of central funding handed out to other clubs.'

 

[Teh Mite]

That £2.5m can only refer to the parachute payment. The clubs are not franchises therefore aren't financed by the union.

 

[abovetheundercroft]

Again the Original article says: However their cause has been hindered further because, having never been a part of the top division before, they will receive less than half of the £2.5m of central funding handed out to other clubs.

Exeter must also spend six seasons in the Premiership to qualify for the full £1.75m of parachute payments handed to relegated clubs

I'm not exactly sure how it works either but the broadcasters must have researched it... Perhaps someone can enlighten us?

 

[wormwoodathletics]

He does have a point though. It's hardly fair for a new team to get less than the established teams. Then again this is the RFU and they've always been an "Old Boys" club.

As for the "senior sporting club in the West Country." I think Bristol City FC will have something to say about that. And actually Bristol Rugby are a bigger club too, we have a far bigger and established history than Exeter.

I agree with you.....it puts the new team at a disadvantage, but it could also bolster the effort and motivate the team to be brilliant despite the odds