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the STORMERS thread

Awesome. With Etzebeth looking like he could make that step up (he really was a standout for SA in age group) and Kolisi the same we might go allright.

Love the Paulse remark, LOL. De Jongh or Aplon?

Bummed we got served up front though; still our BIG weakness. We really need our frontrow to man up. We're gonna get murdered there by the Crusaders.
 
A couple months ago when we lost Sadie, Engelbregt and Cronjie I would have said we didn't have much chance this season but upon further inspection and with our new signings I honestly think we have a decent chance of winning this Super Rugby competition. I think our new signings were actually very intelligently made and if some of our prospects can come to the party this year I think things are looking good.

If you break our team down:
Props: Probably our biggest worry at the moment, Blauw and Harris are adequate but not a winning sides props, although Deon Cartens is a good signing for us and may be the difference between very average props and slightly above average props. Kitshoff isn't good enough (yet) in my opinion.
Hookers: Liedenburg is everything you need in a hooker, he might not be a Bismark but who is? Deon Fourie is a good hooker to have on the bench in certain situations, I'd rather have the situation we do, than have Liedenburg and someone who has the same skill-set if slightly inferior. There is a time and a place for Deon Fourie, and it's nice to have him as a second choice.
Locks: Bekker and Etzebeth are my choices for the future springbok pairing, and although Etzebeth may need a few more years to mature Elstadt is a more than adequate lock. If we can avoid injuries in this area I honestly think we are looking very solid. If you think about the other SA teams we are probably looking the best in this area.
Loosies: We lack a dedicated fetcher that's definitely true but if Coetze can emphasise the need to protect our own possession then hopefully we can minimize the impact of this, as long as we know where the weakness is we can do something about it. Aside from that fact Vermulen and Schalk are two of the best loose forwards in their positions in South Africa, and I'd go so far as to say that if Vermulen wasn't injured during the world cup they both would have started for the boks. Kolisi and Koster are both more than capable youngsters who will hopefully only get better as well. We may not have the edge over the Sharks or the Cheetahs but I wouldn't say we'd be at a disadvantage against either team.
Scummy: Duvenage is a good player and we have a few young players who I feel could fit the bill as well, once again if you compare the situation with the other SA unions I don't think we are suffering to much.
Flyhalf: Considering the woeful lack of depth we had last year, we're looking a lot more solid this year. With Van Aswegen, Grant and Catrakilis we have more than enough talent in this position which is more than we can say of last season.
Centres: Not quite at the same level we had last year in terms of depth but JdV and JdJ will do the job well and the gaping hole in replacements that was left by Sadie and Engelbregt leaving doesn't quite seem so bad with the additions of JP du Plessis and Adi Jacobs.
Outside Backs: Looks MUCH better than it did last year, I only pray that AC has the balls to drop habana. Aplon and Van Den Heever both have the ability to score loads of tries and Joe Pietersen is a far better option at fullback than Conrad Jantjies was.


In summary: It looks better than our South African counter parts.

Now to win we need to:
Win most of our South African derbies, and top our conference
Beat most of our Aus/NZ visitors.
Beat the Highlanders and Force away.
Accept losing to Reds/Saders away.
Accumulate more bonus points than last season with our superior attacking firepower.

and finally finish top of our conference with more points than the NZ top team (which should be doable considering how tough the NZ conference is) we will win.

When you take into account the fact that we should top our conference, we do have an outside chance of winning. It sounds like a tough ask but I have faith in our boys. I'm just going to remain cautiously optimistic, and hope for minimal injuries :D.
 
A couple months ago when we lost Sadie, Engelbregt and Cronjie I would have said we didn't have much chance this season but upon further inspection and with our new signings I honestly think we have a decent chance of winning this Super Rugby competition. I think our new signings were actually very intelligently made and if some of our prospects can come to the party this year I think things are looking good.

If you break our team down:
Props: Probably our biggest worry at the moment, Blauw and Harris are adequate but not a winning sides props, although Deon Cartens is a good signing for us and may be the difference between very average props and slightly above average props. Kitshoff isn't good enough (yet) in my opinion.
Hookers: Liedenburg is everything you need in a hooker, he might not be a Bismark but who is? Deon Fourie is a good hooker to have on the bench in certain situations, I'd rather have the situation we do, than have Liedenburg and someone who has the same skill-set if slightly inferior. There is a time and a place for Deon Fourie, and it's nice to have him as a second choice.
Locks: Bekker and Etzebeth are my choices for the future springbok pairing, and although Etzebeth may need a few more years to mature Elstadt is a more than adequate lock. If we can avoid injuries in this area I honestly think we are looking very solid. If you think about the other SA teams we are probably looking the best in this area.
Loosies: We lack a dedicated fetcher that's definitely true but if Coetze can emphasise the need to protect our own possession then hopefully we can minimize the impact of this, as long as we know where the weakness is we can do something about it. Aside from that fact Vermulen and Schalk are two of the best loose forwards in their positions in South Africa, and I'd go so far as to say that if Vermulen wasn't injured during the world cup they both would have started for the boks. Kolisi and Koster are both more than capable youngsters who will hopefully only get better as well. We may not have the edge over the Sharks or the Cheetahs but I wouldn't say we'd be at a disadvantage against either team.
Scummy: Duvenage is a good player and we have a few young players who I feel could fit the bill as well, once again if you compare the situation with the other SA unions I don't think we are suffering to much.
Flyhalf: Considering the woeful lack of depth we had last year, we're looking a lot more solid this year. With Van Aswegen, Grant and Catrakilis we have more than enough talent in this position which is more than we can say of last season.
Centres: Not quite at the same level we had last year in terms of depth but JdV and JdJ will do the job well and the gaping hole in replacements that was left by Sadie and Engelbregt leaving doesn't quite seem so bad with the additions of JP du Plessis and Adi Jacobs.
Outside Backs: Looks MUCH better than it did last year, I only pray that AC has the balls to drop habana. Aplon and Van Den Heever both have the ability to score loads of tries and Joe Pietersen is a far better option at fullback than Conrad Jantjies was.


In summary: It looks better than our South African counter parts.

Now to win we need to:
Win most of our South African derbies, and top our conference
Beat most of our Aus/NZ visitors.
Beat the Highlanders and Force away.
Accept losing to Reds/Saders away.
Accumulate more bonus points than last season with our superior attacking firepower.

and finally finish top of our conference with more points than the NZ top team (which should be doable considering how tough the NZ conference is) we will win.

When you take into account the fact that we should top our conference, we do have an outside chance of winning. It sounds like a tough ask but I have faith in our boys. I'm just going to remain cautiously optimistic, and hope for minimal injuries :D.

Excellent post! Welcome to the forum by the way - it is great to have new members joining up with the start of the Super Rugby season not far away, especially members who not only have a good knowledge of rugby, but also have the ability to express there thoughts clearly!

I agree with you on Vermeulen. I rate him very highly as I think he is the most complete number 8 in South Africa. I do believe Louw is a massive loss for the Stormers, and as you say a lack of a genuine fetcher may cost the Stormers against some teams. What would you pick as your top loose-forward trio? I's assume Burger, Vermeulen, and Koster would be the preferred trio, but who out of Vermeulen or Koster would start at 7 (given both are probably more suited to 8)?
 
Koster might get the nod but Fenton-Wells might be an option. I thought he had some good moments in the CC and would certainly benefit from some more exposure.
Catrakilis ahead of van Aswegen, for backup 10, I am guessing.
 
Someoke, how ould your starting XV and back-up selections look. After the warm-ups mine would read:

1 Blaauw
2 Liebenberg
3 Harris (this is our biggest weakness IMO)
4 Elstadt
5 Bekker
6 Kolisi
7 Burger (c)
8 Vermeulen
9 Duvenhage
10 Van Aswegen (Grant when he comes back from Japan and has had a week or three off)
11 Van den Heever
12 De Villiers
13 De Jongh
14 Aplon
15 Pietersen

16 Carstens
17 Fourie
18 Etzebeth (though Steenkamp is big opposition I feel Etzebeth needs to be retained and given opportunities; big future for WP and SA)
19 Koster
20 Groom
21 Katrakilis
22 Du Plessis
 
The warm-up games have given me some added hope as our youngsters have for the most part shown we have some depth though I would still have be more optimistic had Fancois Louw and Jaque Fourie stayed on for the 2012 season.

In the Lions game we fielded a pretty strong line-up though our forwards were mostly 2nd string apart from Burger and hammered (28-6) an almost full strength Currie cup champion Lions team. We did however play 2nd fiddle at the srums which is worrying as I don't feel our 1st choice front torw is that much better in the scrum department than the 2nd stringers. Stars in the fixture include Aplon who scored a brace of tries and two Stormer up-and-comming forwards in lock Eben Etzebeth and flanker Siya Kolisi who showed coach AC that they are up for top level rugby and just want to be given the chance to prove themsleves against the big boys.

Though we lost 22-15 to the Cheetahs I am still very happy with the result as this was a decided 2nd (and in some cases even 3rd) team Stormers against the best the Cheetahs had to offer with Juan Smith still injured and we could have won if our young 3rd choice backline had been more clinical with the more opportunities and Katrakilis missed 9 points at goal whereas Goosen for the Cheetahs managed 100% at goal and was the difference in the end. The Cheetahs would be glad to see their defense hold out and restrict the Stormers to only 1 try but will they do the same with the likes of Aplon, JdJ, JdV, Duvenhage etc also in the mix?
 
You know, as much as I liked reading that the Cheetahs beat the Stormers this past weekend... I don't think there should be any form of panic in the Mother City.

If I look at your squad, it's quite a good team and one thing that might be to an advantage to the Stormers which the other SA teams mostly overlook, but works quite well in the Super 15, are the mobility of the forwards, geez, you guys have some serious pace in there! but with that said, it will be interesting to see what happens in a tighter game.

Like most of you guys have said, your weakness are your props. but if they can better their technique, then that alone will help immensely. Wicus Blaauw for instance, when he came onto the scene i though, damn that guy is gonna be great one day, but the more he played, the more his weaknesses became apparent, and he got penalised a lot at scrum time.

It will be interesting to see how it goes in this year's tournament with the way the refs are going to interpret the scrums and getting an order not to get too many resets. If I were the Stormers, I'd wish every game will be like the bulls/kings game this past weekend, where the first scrum of the match happened only in the 53rd minute...
 
Excellent post! Welcome to the forum by the way - it is great to have new members joining up with the start of the Super Rugby season not far away, especially members who not only have a good knowledge of rugby, but also have the ability to express there thoughts clearly!

I agree with you on Vermeulen. I rate him very highly as I think he is the most complete number 8 in South Africa. I do believe Louw is a massive loss for the Stormers, and as you say a lack of a genuine fetcher may cost the Stormers against some teams. What would you pick as your top loose-forward trio? I's assume Burger, Vermeulen, and Koster would be the preferred trio, but who out of Vermeulen or Koster would start at 7 (given both are probably more suited to 8)?
Thanks for the welcome :).

The starting loose trio is a tough one, but I would probably go for Burger/Vermeulen/Koster like you said, as highly as I rate Kolisi he is still two years younger than Koster and I am wary of blooding players too early, he is still 20 and a knock to his confidence could ruin his career like many before him. With two years and plenty of physical conditioning and more importantly mental conditioning he has the potential to be one of the greats but I've seen to many players make the leap to Super Rugby have a few bad games and then never reclaim their confidence. Koster is at least proven at Super Rugby level and has had enough experience at flank to not be out of his depth.

As for the fetcher issue it's also dependant on how the break-down is going to be refereed, a good open side flank's job is to test the limits of legality at the breakdown and how big of a problem it is really depends on where the line is set which we still have to see. Other than that all we can do is make sure the breakdown is enforced properly and if some of our forwards have to curb their "look mom I'm a backline player" instincts then AC must make sure that they know their role.

My starting team would almost be exactly the same as Stormer2010 except perhaps swapping Kolisi and Koster, and JP du Plesis for Adi Jacobs. I know Adi Jacobs gets a lot of flak in South Africa but his use as an impact player can't be underestimated, he doesn't have enough gas in the tank to last 80 minutes but he is the type of player that will score a try or two of the bench.
 
Followed live commentary of the match from a guy in the stands via twitter this weekend.
He was totally confused about the tactics used, Burger received the ball at first receiver for most of the match and tried to bash it up without success. Wonder what on earth did they try here....

The wings were outclassed for pace and the flyhalf did not have a good outing in his first match back from injury. Coleman made a difference when he came on.
Guess they tried some stuff and it backfired badly, good maybe, get the funny stuff out of the way before the tournamnet starts
 
Oh yes one more thing I wanted to vent about. Am I the only one who's royally ****** off that they don't televise friendly?
I have no idea how they went apart from the scoreline.
 
Oh yes one more thing I wanted to vent about. Am I the only one who's royally ****** off that they don't televise friendly?
I have no idea how they went apart from the scoreline.

Lol, yeah it's a bit irritating, but have you ever watched these warm-up games? They are horrible to watch! they try things they never done before and then everyone goes off and say, WTF was that?? if it doesn't work people tend to think that they are going to have a crap season, or when it does work, people think that they will be unstopable. then in the 2nd half they ring like 10 subs changes on the field and then it's just a big "Chommel".

I have tickets to watch the Bulls and Cheetahs play this coming weekend at Polokloftus, but I'm not keen to go because of this trying stuff out and see what happens... regardless if it's good or bad... there's just no atmosphere to the game, people watch half heartedly, only reason they go is because they don't have anything better to do...
 
Thanks for the welcome :).

The starting loose trio is a tough one, but I would probably go for Burger/Vermeulen/Koster like you said, as highly as I rate Kolisi he is still two years younger than Koster and I am wary of blooding players too early, he is still 20 and a knock to his confidence could ruin his career like many before him. With two years and plenty of physical conditioning and more importantly mental conditioning he has the potential to be one of the greats but I've seen to many players make the leap to Super Rugby have a few bad games and then never reclaim their confidence. Koster is at least proven at Super Rugby level and has had enough experience at flank to not be out of his depth.

As for the fetcher issue it's also dependant on how the break-down is going to be refereed, a good open side flank's job is to test the limits of legality at the breakdown and how big of a problem it is really depends on where the line is set which we still have to see. Other than that all we can do is make sure the breakdown is enforced properly and if some of our forwards have to curb their "look mom I'm a backline player" instincts then AC must make sure that they know their role.

My starting team would almost be exactly the same as Stormer2010 except perhaps swapping Kolisi and Koster, and JP du Plesis for Adi Jacobs. I know Adi Jacobs gets a lot of flak in South Africa but his use as an impact player can't be underestimated, he doesn't have enough gas in the tank to last 80 minutes but he is the type of player that will score a try or two of the bench.

I hear you regarding rather having the experience of Koster and Jacobs. I guess I just don't see both these players as being long-term stalwarts and wouldn't like to the same happen to Kolisi, Etzebeth, Du Plessis etc like what happened with Hougaard moving to the Bulls because of Ricky Januarie or JJ as well because of Habana... Sadie behind JdV.. hell, we've lost sooo many promising youngsters because of has-beens and not risking with them that i'm getting depressed now. Also imagine if we could have kept a hold on 1) CJ van der Linde, 2) Schalk Brits and 3)Brian Mujati... with Hougie and the rest... Ai, man.

Older, meaner forwads and young, explosive backs. That's what i want to see but I guess WPRU like it the other way around; be a retirement village for the likes of JdV, Habana, Jantjes, Januarie, Jacobs and co and blood young forwards who then leave for Europe when they are more developed because they actually prize good forwards, especially front rowers there.
 
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Interesting to see Habana starting at 13 in the pre-season match (as de Jongh is out injured). Obviously de Villiers/de Jongh is still the preferred mid-field combo, but it sounds like Habana is the preferred backup at centre now if either de Villiers or de Jongh are injured. I'm not a big fan of playing wings a centre, so it will be interesting to see how he goes (and whether either of the two wings touch the ball this match on attack!).
 
Yeah, I can't see our other wingers get any ball now. I can also see Haban overrun JdV and the Kings intercepting and can you just imagine Habana shooting up out of the line in defense!!

This is just WPRU's way of making sure JP du Plessis goes overseas; we don't want any talented youngsters upsetting our old boy's club here in the Western Cape.
 
Habana made his debut as a centre for the Boks, that's where he started out when he played for the lions... Jake White used him at wing because of lack of pace by the other team members. I personally think this would be a better move than JP Pieterson at centre...

@TRF darwin: How can you not like wings playing centre?? some of best guys in the business made that switch during their long careers. Tana Umaga, Stirling Mortlock, Jean De Villiers, Jaque Fourie... to name a few.
 
He might have started out at 13 but (and this is the first time I've traded in JW's 'reputation') a RWC winning coach and 3-time S14 winners moved him to wing and that is that for me. I still can't see him at 13. He is sooo over-eager at 11 I just can't see the switch to 13 (where you need an even cooler head) be sucessful.
 
maybe this is exactly what he needs, on thing is he'll be closer to the ball, and most probably get the ball more than on the wing, which will have the effect of him not becoming over eager and not doing silly stuff...

One thing is for sure, if he wants to remain in the bok squad, he seriously needs to up his game... Give him a chance at least, maybe he'll be better than Umaga...
 

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