How does your squad look for next season?

[Quel Carreleur]

Obviously, signings aren't done yet; but we should all know roughly what our squad will look like.

Bath:
1. Catt; Auterac > Lahiff > (Obano)
2. Batty > Walker > Dunn; Van Vuuren
3. Thomas > Wilson > Palma-Newport
4. Charteris > Ewels
5. Attwood > Ellis; Stooke
6. Garvey > (Douglas) > Sisi
7. Louw > GMercer
8. Faletau > Denton > (ZMercer)
. . . . . . . . 19 + 5
09. Fotuali'i > Cook > Matawalu
10. Ford; Priestland
11. Banahan > (Davies)
12. Bowden
13. Joseph > (Clarke)
14. Rokoduguni > Williams
15. Watson > Homer
. . . . . . . . 9 + 5

Italicized players Non-EQP
Bracketed players are current academy players ready for promotion, or at least to step in when necessary.
Bolded players are academy products (yes, including those signed into the academy)

Personally, I always like to have 2 for each position, + a full bench; and probably another bench's worth of kids / 4th choicers ready to cover minor emergencies.
Bath seem short of a THP, Centre and back 3 player - also FH if we lose them both again for AIs and 6N.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1 Ayerza, Genge, Rizzo, Brugnara
2 Youngs, McGuigan, Thacker, Bateman
3 Cole, Logo, Cilliers, Balmain
4 Slater, Fitzgerald
5 Kitchener, Barrow
6 Williams, Croft
7 O'Connor, (Evans)
8 Hamilton, McCaffrey, Fonua
9 Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10 Burns, Williams, (Bryant)
11 Betham, Thompstone
12 Toomua, Smith, roberts
13 Manu, Catchpole
14 JPP, Brady
15 Veainu, Tait, (Worth)

Still need Lock, Back rower (Mainly an out and out 8) and back 3 player (Full back or Winger) either through academy or not.

 

[j'nuh]

1. McAllister > Yann Thomas > Dan Murphy
2. Hibbard > Matu'u > Dawidiuk > Lindsay
3. Afoa > Hohneck > PDJ, Nicky Thomas
4. Savage, Galarza > Latta
5. Thrush > Denton > (Batley)
6. Moriarty, Kalamafoni > Ludlow
7. Kvesic > Rowan
8. Morgan > Gareth Evans
9. Laidlaw > Heinz > Braley > (Randall)
10. Hook > Burns > Protheroe
11. May > Purdy (had a year in the academy, does it count? lol) > (Thorley)
12. Scott > Atkinson
13. Twelvetrees > Trinder > Meakes (see Purdy)
14. Sharples > Halaifonua
15. Marshall

Expecting two more players, a loosehead and a fullback. Hopefully a fairly big name loosehead and all (we don't look to have spent up to the new cap, and loosehead is our pressing position).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Purdy seems to have been in everyones Academy, although trying to say a 21 year old is in your academy is pushing it a bit.

 

[Peat]

Expecting two more players, a loosehead and a fullback. Hopefully a fairly big name loosehead and all (we don't look to have spent up to the new cap, and loosehead is our pressing position).

PaddyMac not quite doing it for ye? Think the average Ulster fan is on the verge of kidnapping him.

Also, haven't there been rumours linking you to the other Marshall brother. Also... oh yeah, you haven't bolded Protheroe because he went straight onto pro terms on leaving school. Probably counts as a product though :lol:

 

[j'nuh]

Purdy seems to have been in everyones Academy, although trying to say a 21 year old is in your academy is pushing it a bit.

But he was officially in our academy for a season and Which Tyler said to include players that were signed into the academy. And 21 isn't too old for an academy player... Hicks was 23 (I think?) when he was in our academy.

PaddyMac not quite doing it for ye? Think the average Ulster fan is on the verge of kidnapping him.

Also, haven't there been rumours linking you to the other Marshall brother. Also... oh yeah, you haven't bolded Protheroe because he went straight onto pro terms on leaving school. Probably counts as a product though :lol:

If you want to be at the top, you need two decent looseheads. I'd like Paddy to be a second choice to an international standard loosehead. A Castro/Cole type of situation.

First I have heard about the other Marshall! Where did you hear this? (I'm totes gonna post on Shedweb and take all the kudos for a fine rumour. )

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

But he was officially in our academy for a season and Which Tyler said to include players that were signed into the academy. And 21 isn't too old for an academy player... Hicks was 23 (I think?) when he was in our academy.

And officially you claim zero academy credits on them.

it's only because they were signed on a deal of £30K or less.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1. Lewis-Roberts, Longbottom, Harrison, Flynn
2. Webber, Briggs,
3. Mujati, Aulika, (Parker)
4. Evans, Ostrikov, (Nott)
5. Kruger, Mills
6. Neild, Ioane
7. Seymour, Lund, (Hughes)
8. Beaumont, Pearce
9. Stringer, Philips, Mitchell
10. McGinty, Mugford, (Morton)
11. Charnley, Edwards
12. Tuitupou, Leota, (Bedlow)
13. James, Jennings
14. Addison, Ingall
15. Haley, Arscott, (Jeffers)

It's come together quite nicely, I think.
To be more comfortable I'd like us to sign either another hooker or another backrower, depending on where Neild ends up (plan was for him to go back to hooker next season but he was really really good on the flank last year, and Braid, who is new forwards coach, said he's keen to keep him on the flank).
Possibly need another 2nd row - we've always been a bit short there, and have had to rag the guys we've got and hope for no injuries. Nott is a talent but at the moment (/potentially going forwards) he definitely looks more like a blindside than a 2nd row.
Potentially a bit light at 15, too - Haley is our only recognised 15. Arscott has experience there, too, but he'll be first choice wing until Charnley arrives.
Who, interestingly, is listed as "Back three player" not winger, so I wonder if they're hoping he can cover 15 too.

I'm excited to see if we bring through any more academy guys. There's as big a buzz around Bedlow as there was Sam James. Morton is supposed to be good, and with only two 10s he should see some game time, as well.
Jeffers looked great in the prem 7s, but obviously that's a different beast.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A lot will ride on McGinty for Sale.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A lot will ride on McGinty for Sale.

Absolutely: We've lost an international flyhalf, a flyhalf with a TON of experience, and a decent journeyman and signed a guy who will be in his 2nd season of pro rugby and a guy who hasn't played at the top level.
It's a big big gamble, however I trust in Dimes' judgement, and McGinty has looked good from what I've seen for America and Connacht.
Pat Lam said in an interview the other day that he really wanted to keep McGinty at Connacht but couldn't because he's not Irish, and that when his contract's up at Sale he'll be looking to sign him to wherever he's coaching, and that he told that to Dimes and we flew him to Manchester the next day and offered him a contract the day after.

 

[Groundhog]

Absolutely: We've lost an international flyhalf, a flyhalf with a TON of experience, and a decent journeyman and signed a guy who will be in his 2nd season of pro rugby and a guy who hasn't played at the top level.
It's a big big gamble, however I trust in Dimes' judgement, and McGinty has looked good from what I've seen for America and Connacht.
Pat Lam said in an interview the other day that he really wanted to keep McGinty at Connacht but couldn't because he's not Irish, and that when his contract's up at Sale he'll be looking to sign him to wherever he's coaching, and that he told that to Dimes and we flew him to Manchester the next day and offered him a contract the day after.

Oh if McGinty was IQ he for sure would have got a contract with Connacht or Munster. I mean it's kinda paradoxical because he never would have got his chance with Connacht if he hadn't played for the U.S, but he can't stay because of the fact he played for the U.S. Strong as a running ten. Really like how he attacks the line and manages to beat the first man a lot. Quite a livewire and played great in the final. Honestly thought he'd be a journeyman standard but that goes for most of Connacht's team this season tbf. Only thing that's suspect is his goal kicking but none of the ones he missed were sitters.

 

[Peat]

I was about to mention the goal kicking - that's his weak point so far and I can't see a player there that Sale can toss the tee to.

J'nuh - Forget where I heard it, probably the Planet Rugby forum (that well known home of veracity...). He's meant to be going to London Irish, but I suspect there's a few players who'll be released by mutual consent there now that they're down.

As for PaddyMac - well, that sounds okay. I'd be pretty surprised if we didn't try to entice him back, will be interesting to see what he does.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I was about to mention the goal kicking - that's his weak point so far and I can't see a player there that Sale can toss the tee to.

We're used to having a flaky goal kicker, we'll survive

I think we might be looking at Arscott as a backup - he's always been a long range kicker but he started taking a few more shots at goal before his knee fell off.
Charnley is also an option - not a 100%er but someone who can take a shot if needs be.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Cips is so flaky he makes Ford look like a twirl.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

1. Holmes, Hepburn, Moon
2. LCD, Yeandle, Taione, Malton
3. Francis, Low, Williams, Rimmer
4. Lees, Welch, Stevenson, Hill
5. Parling, Atkins, Sexton
6. Ewers, Armand, Dennis, Johnson
7. Salvi, White
8. Waldrom, Horstmann
9. Chudley, Lewis, Thomas
10. Steenson, Hooley
11. Short, Jess, Arnott
12. Slade, Devoto, Whitten, Hill
13. Campagnaro
14. Nowell, Woodburn, Turner
15. Dollman

Not sure on whose an academy player to be honest. I think we have great strength in depth, especially in the back row and at 12. Can't wait for the upcoming season.

 

[BPM]

Pretty average from a Quins point of view ... Decent enough squad and enough depth to survive without our international players during the breaks, but uninspiring signings and an unproven DOR/Coaching set-up doesn't inspire confidence.

I'm not expecting an improvement on last season ...

1. Marler / Lambert / O. Evans
2. Gray / Ward / Buchanan
3. Jones / Sinckler / Collier
4. Twomey / Matthews / Reddish
5. Horwill / Merrick
6. Robshaw / Luamanu / Talei / White
7. Wallace
8. Clifford / Chisholm / Easter*
9. Care / Dickson / Mulchrone
10. N. Evans / Jackson / Swiel
11. Visser / Aspland-Robinson
12. Roberts / Sloan / Stanley
13. Marchant / Lowe / Hopper
14. Yarde / Walker / Alofa
15. Brown / R. Chisholm / Morris

*Player coach

 

[TheSaffycen]

Saracens
1.Vunipola, Barrington
2.George,Brits,Saunders,Spurling
3.Du Plessis, Koch, Figallo
4.Itoje, Hargreaves
5.Kruis, Hamilton, Flanagan
6.Burger, Rhodes, Brown
7.Fraser, Hankin
8.Vunipola, Wray, Vunisa
9.Wigglesworth, De Kock, Spencer
10.Farrell, Lozowski
11.Maitland, Ellery
12.Barritt, Taylor, Tompkins
13.Wyles, Bosch, Streather
14.Ashton, Rawaca, Earle
15.Goode

A few players i'm not sure with. In the forwards, Wray could play 6/7/8 and Burger I always saw as an openside but he played blinside for SA most recently didn't he? Duncan Taylor can be brilliant in 12/13/14. Wyles 11/13/14/15 and even 12 ive seen before. Bosch can be crap in 10/12/13/15, Maitland will be a a back up 15 but mainly wing I would think. Rawaca I don't know? could be 11/14?

 

[SWAGGER]

Saracens
1.Vunipola, Barrington
2.George,Brits,Saunders,Spurling
3.Du Plessis, Koch, Figallo
4.Itoje, Hargreaves
5.Kruis, Hamilton, Flanagan
6.Burger, Rhodes, Brown
7.Fraser, Hankin
8.Vunipola, Wray, Vunisa
9.Wigglesworth, De Kock, Spencer
10.Farrell, Lozowski
11.Maitland, Ellery
12.Barritt, Taylor, Tompkins
13.Wyles, Bosch, Streather
14.Ashton, Rawaca, Earle
15.Goode

A few players i'm not sure with. In the forwards, Wray could play 6/7/8 and Burger I always saw as an openside but he played blinside for SA most recently didn't he? Duncan Taylor can be brilliant in 12/13/14. Wyles 11/13/14/15 and even 12 ive seen before. Bosch can be crap in 10/12/13/15, Maitland will be a a back up 15 but mainly wing I would think. Rawaca I don't know? could be 11/14?

I guess that American prop Titi Lamositele will be your 3rd choice LH now Alo has left. I was impressed last season by him when he played or has he left like as well ?

 

[TheSaffycen]

Nah he's still there, forgot about him honestly. LH is a little light for us, but should be do able even during internationals.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tom Youngs is the new Tigers Captain, very happy with that.

Tigers revised senior squad (Development squad)
1) Ayerza, Genge, Rizzo, Brugnara, (Hills)
2) Youngs, McGuigan, Thacker, Bateman (Malhoney)
3) Cole, Mulipola, Cilliers, Balmain, Betts
4) Slater, Barrow, Wells (Maksymiw)
5) Kitchener, Fitzergald (Lewis)
6) Williams, Croft, Owen
7) O'Connor, Evans
8) Hamilton, McCaffrey, Fonua (Tuilagi)
9) Youngs, Harrison, Kitto (Simmons), (white)
10) Burns, Williams, Bryant
11) JPP, Thompstone, (R.Olowofela)
12) Toomua, Smith, Roberts (Thacker)
13) Manu, Catchpole (J.Olowofela)
14) Betham, Brady (Yawayawa)
15) Veainu, Tait (Worth)

So that is a senior squad of
41 down from 47
15 academy products up from 11
3 new academy players brought up Owen, Evans and Bryant one academy product returning in Wells.

Development squad
7 academy players brought up.

 

[BPM]

What is the general consensus on the optimum size of a first-team squad?

Allowing for international call-ups and injuries, 40-45 with roughly 3 players per position feels about right to me.

Any more than that and I think it would get difficult to keep everyone happy. Less than 40 feels to light though unless you have very few international players.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Our latest squad update

1) Jack O'Connell, Soane Tonga'uiha, Kyle Traynor

2) Chris Brooker, Max Crumpton, Marc Jones, Ross McMillan

3) Gaston Cortes, Jamal Ford-Robinson, James Hall, Anthony Perenise

4) Ian Evans, Joe Joyce, Glen Townson

5) Ben Glynn, Mark Sorenson

6) Jordan Crane, Jon Fisher, Nick Köster

7) Nick Fenton-Wells, Jack Lam, Olly Robinson

8) Mitch Eadie, James Phillips, Rayn Smid



9) Will Cliff, Martin Roberts, Rhodri Williams

10) Adrian Jarvis, Tusi Pisi, Callum Sheedy

11) Ryan Edwards, David Lemi

12) Gavin Henson, Will Hurrell, Ben Mosses, Thretton Palamo

13) Nick Carpenter, Gareth Maule, Jack Tovey

14) Charlie Amesbury, Tom Varndell

15) Luke Arscott, Auguy Slowik, Jack Wallace, Jordan Williams

Fairly solid squad, but the talk from the club is that we aren't finished with incomings yet

 

[Quel Carreleur]

What is the general consensus on the optimum size of a first-team squad?

It depends on how many international players you have (especially within a unit) and what strengths you have in the academy; but I'll stand by this for now:

Personally, I always like to have 2 for each position, + a full bench; and probably another bench's worth of kids / 4th choicers ready to cover minor emergencies.

Which is 38, with another 8 or so ready to step up; whether from the academy or as senior squad-fillers.
I'd then say that if you provide a couple of internationals in 1 unit, then you need a little extra cover there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

It depends on how many international players you have (especially within a unit) and what strengths you have in the academy; but I'll stand by this for now:

Which is 38, with another 8 or so ready to step up; whether from the academy or as senior squad-fillers.
I'd then say that if you provide a couple of internationals in 1 unit, then you need a little extra cover there.

I would agree with this although i feel the front row should have 4 players in each position with senior academy covering 5th choice. (Esp if you have Champions cup rugby)

TBH i like Tigers setup cover wise (Just shy a back ATM)
41 senior squad and 12 in the Senior Academy.

 

[BPM]

The Tigers squad does look very strong this season.

There's a very nice balance there with lots of experienced players complemented by some excellent prospects.

i could be wrong, but I think Ayerza is the only one over 30 and you've got lots of players in that 25-30 peak age group which is enviable.

IMO, you're a top class number 8 short but that's about it!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The Tigers squad does look very strong this season.

There's a very nice balance there with lots of experienced players complemented by some excellent prospects.

i could be wrong, but I think Ayerza is the only one over 30 and you've got lots of players in that 25-30 peak age group which is enviable.

IMO, you're a top class number 8 short but that's about it!

Rizzo is 34 in September, but i don't think we have anyone else other than those two over 30 (Tait turns 31 in feb).

 

[Quel Carreleur]

Out of interest - over on the Bath Boards; Ballsout has put this up

 

[Raggs]

Don't Bath have Walker at hooker?

Wasps

1. Mullan, Mcintyre, Bristow, Lundberg
2. Taylor, Johnson, Cruse, Woolstencroft
3. Cooper-Woolley, Moore, Swainston
4. Launchbury, Symonds, Cannon, Garrett
5. Gaskell, Myall, Rowlands
6. Haskell, Reider
7. Young, Thompson, (Willis)
8. Hughes, Jones

9. Robson, Simpson, Hampson
10. Cipriani, Gopperth
11. Halai, Bassett
12. Eastmond, Armitage, Macken
13. Daly, Leiua, De Luca
14. Wade, Tagicakibau
15. Miller, Beale

No idea how many of our academy players would be ready, think Howe at least could fill in.

 

[BPM]

Interesting document ... For Bath, I count 2 centres (Bowden and Joseph) and 3 wingers (Banahan, Rokoduguni and Williams), but either way it's the same total.

Bath are in a very odd place. The first team is competitive, but total of 33 in the first-team squad is clearly too few, yet they're currently selling players rather than acquiring them ... International call-ups and injuries will leave them really exposed.

On paper, the pack could be improved, but is fairly good. However, they desperately need backs. Without exaggerating, I'd say they're something like 8 players short in the backs alone. Knowing who's likely to be called-up for the internationals, they probably need another AP ready fly half, 4 more centres, 2 more wingers and another full back.

That's a lot of players and with only 6 weeks or so until the start of the season, I can't see many AP or Pro12 clubs that will be willing to sell anyone decent. One or two of the academy prospects could step-up, but they're either going to need to really splash the cash or sign a bunch of journeymen on shorter contracts to get them through the season.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't Bath have Walker at hooker?

Wasps

1. Mullan, Mcintyre, Bristow, Lundberg
2. Taylor, Johnson, Cruse, Woolstencroft
3. Cooper-Woolley, Moore, Swainston
4. Launchbury, Symonds, Cannon, Garrett
5. Gaskell, Myall, Rowlands
6. Haskell, Reider
7. Young, Thompson, (Willis)
8. Hughes, Jones

9. Robson, Simpson, Hampson
10. Cipriani, Gopperth
11. Halai, Bassett
12. Eastmond, Armitage, Macken
13. Daly, Leiua, De Luca
14. Wade, Tagicakibau
15. Miller, Beale

No idea how many of our academy players would be ready, think Howe at least could fill in.

I'd not really looked at the Wasps squad as a whole.

Looks very strong in most positions, but if Wade or Halai were to pick up an injury, the second choice wingers are a big step down.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the academy players too. Willis, Stuart and West looked decent for the U20s and apparently Ehizode from the U18 squad is another Itoje in the making.

 

[Raggs]

Bassett is a very good winger, huge determination, good pace, and absolutely fearless (stopped Rokoduguni in full flight by basically hitting him upright, face to face). Leiua is more than capable on the wing too, Miller isn't shabby there, Beale can cover well, as can Simpson and Daly, Armitage too I believe (Robson has too, but I think he's 1st choice scrumhalf). The advantage with so much pace in the side is that pretty much everyone can give wing a fair shot.