[2018 Super Rugby] Round 14: 18-19 May 2018

[TRF_heineken]

OK, first, apologies if i misread your post/argument. Now help me out because i asked you a question and i can't find your answer. You said that the sudden replacement a week before the game was suspicious. My question is pretty straightforward: suspicious towards what, exactly?


Absolutely not. The fact that they changed the ref is factual therefore empirical. Whether that is in any way could affect the outcome is 100% speculative.

This is quite simple: you are suspicious, because something could happen. What is that "something", concretely and specifically?

Okay, let's perhaps break it down. We're not pointing fingers at the Jaguares, not Argentinian Rugby. We're pointing fingers at SANZAAR.
Our suspicions are that SANZAAR are trying to use referees to have an influence on the game to the detriment of certain teams.

This last change of appointment raises that suspicion, because the original referee appointed, doesn't have an injury or any illness that prevents him from doing his job. So the question is why was he then replaced all of a sudden?

This happened a day after the Stormers filed an official complaint with SANZAAR.

And I'm beginning to wonder if all these articles about SA leaving Super Rugby is perhaps the doing of someone at SANZAAR...

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

So, your working theory is that SANZAAR, of which SARU is part of, wants to influence the game via referee appointments to the detriment of certain teams, the bulls being one of them?
Is my understanding of your argument correct?

 

[SomeOke]

So, your working theory is that SANZAAR, of which SARU is part of, wants to influence the game via referee appointments to the detriment of certain teams, the bulls being one of them?
Is my understanding of your argument correct?

I think they're saying SANZAAR more thinks the Jaguares getting through would be better for the game, rather than detrimental for the Bulls.

I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt though, no point in complaining about the ref until we've seen the game.

 

[bakakumon]

That would be better as it would be easier to fill up this stadium than that huge Sevens stadium.

True, the atmosphere would be much more compact as the seats are very close to the pitch.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I disagree with most on this ref replacement.
The guy replaced is not up to standard and replaced by a better ref.
SANZAR under huge pressure because of sub-standard refereeing lately, I think they want to limit more damage and/or apply some damage control
The replacement ref is not great either, so sadly refereeing is simply not very good at present

Don't read this with any intention to make assumptions, theories blah blah out of it

Simply the way I see it

 

[TRF_heineken]

So, your working theory is that SANZAAR, of which SARU is part of, wants to influence the game via referee appointments to the detriment of certain teams, the bulls being one of them?
Is my understanding of your argument correct?

That is one way of looking at it I guess. But the Argentina Rugby is also part of SANZAAR, so you could argue the other part of the coin as well in how you are stating it.

But like @Gena_ZA is also saying, that it might be damage control to some extent.

The issue here is not the Jaguares, so let's put that to rest, the issue is SANZAAR and the manner in which they are appointing referees... The Bulls got the short end of the stick in at least 2 matches where NZ referee was in charge (Glen Jackson), I guess, they draw the line at 3...

But yeah, the standard of refereeing this year has been dreadful.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Ok, i dont want to generalize but given that there are several of you posting from the same side, i have to mention there's quite a leap from "bad refereeing" to "we want Jaguares to go through" as it's been suggested. These are completely different problems that require completely different solutions.

The Bulls got the short end of the stick in at least 2 matches where NZ referee was in charge (Glen Jackson), I guess, they draw the line at 3...

This is the kind of argument i was referring to. I can understand how that bothers you. I try to put myself in your shoes for a split second, just out of intellectual curiosity. I like to do that. Helps me understand your point of view. It's called empathy.
Now imagine for a second: how you'd feel if instead of 3, that number was 41. Not 3, not 5, not 10, not 20, not 30. Fourty-one. That's how many games we've played without an Argentine ref.

Do you see how those sort of comments come across? It's an honest question. You are complaining (for the lack of a better word) about being reffed 3 times on a row by non South African referees when your opponent hasn't been reffed once in 41 games by an Argentine ref. Do you see the problem or am i too cryptic?

 

[argie]

I have no problem with Jaco Peyper be refereing us again, and again, and again until the end of the times. The refs that SANZAAR have named aren´t a reason to be crying if a defeat occurs. I will not open the umbrella ahead of time.
I have a lot of confidence in the Jags style.

 

[Brigantine]

Looks like the Reds really bounced back from last week

 

[GordoMac]

Looks like the Reds really bounced back from last week

Been better if Ben O'keefe hadn't been refereeing the game mind you, after his atrocious game the previous week when he gifted the Crusaders a game against the Tahs they give him another home game reffing the Hurricanes.... His interpretations of the scrum and breakdown make me shout at the TV more than any other ref... I believe the standard of reffing is all in all pretty good but he is terrible.....

 

[mdaclarke]

Stormers = Laughing stock of South Africa

 

[GordoMac]

Way to go the Sunwolves.... What a finish

 

[GordoMac]

Stormers = Laughing stock of South Africa

Harsh.... But fair...

 

[Brigantine]

With that bonus point the Stormers just won, the South African Conference looks like:
31 pts - Lions - 6 wins / +44
24 pts - Stormers - 6 wins / -30
24 pts - Jaguares - 6 wins / -47
24 pts - Bulls - 5 wins / +1
24 pts - Sharks - 4 wins / +1

When was the last time a conference had 4 teams all tied on points? (and not tied on zero! Also ignore the 2 games in hand for a moment)

The Sunwolves closing out a close game though... this is very not normal - especially away from Japan. All down to those 2 missed conversions though. Hayden Parker kicking 100% again - he's 19 for 19 these past 2 weekends! Including that drop goal.

-------------------------------------------

Stormers = Laughing stock of South Africa

The Stormers are the only team to ever fail to beat the Sunwolves outside Japan - and they've done it twice! 2 years ago it was a 17-all draw in Singapore.

The other games the Sunwolves have won - Jaguares (by 8), Bulls (1), Blues (27), Reds (35) were all in Tokyo.
(and unfortunately that's the whole list... out of 15 games in Japan to date - 27% win ratio in Japan, 0% from 6 games in Singapore, and 100% in Hong Kong!)

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

With that bonus point the Stormers just won, the South African Conference looks like:
31 pts - Lions - 6 wins / +44
24 pts - Stormers - 6 wins / -30
24 pts - Jaguares - 6 wins / -47
24 pts - Bulls - 5 wins / +1
24 pts - Sharks - 4 wins / +1

I believe Stormers have 24 points but only 5 wins, which would leave them 4ths. And they have of course 13 games vs Sharks/Bulls/Jaguares' 11.

They just threw away the season if you ask me.

 

[Brigantine]

I believe Stormers have 24 points but only 5 wins

So they do... not sure how I got that wrong. That final QF spot instead belongs to the Jaguares for a while longer.

 

[Big_Grumper]

Stupid play from Nabura. That’s game over for the Highlanders.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The slow mo on that kick was hilarious, straight out of a kung fu movie

 

[Big_Grumper]

The slow mo on that kick was hilarious, straight out of a kung fu movie

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeesh, Highlanders doing everything they can to kill off that Aus vs NZ loss streak.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Argentine TMO just spotted the tinniest (thou clearly valid) of knock ons...

 

[argie]

Any doubt with the Jags?. The refs?. Time to call Jaco again?.
Let's see the upcoming matches against the SA teams: Sharks and Stormers in home, and Bulls and Sharks away.

 

[argie]

11,342 spectators.

 

[mdaclarke]

The way things are going there may be none or only 1 South African team in the play-offs

 

[FNS]

Great win by the Jags. Sadly the lack of BP may leave us outside the playoff but i must admit they changed a lot and all they needed was time and a good coach.

 

[Jaguares]

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Mira quien aparecio!! Como va Conrad!

Back on topic.
Outstanding display from the boys. Brilliant stuff.
It's our QF spot to lose. We have everything we need to make this happen.
With just a bit of luck there's actually a reasonable chance for us to make it to the semis (we end up 7th, tah's 2nd which given the remaining fixture for Lions and Tahs is not that far stretched).
From there who the **** knows?
I thought we'd peaked against the Chiefs but we're still improving. What's even better (or at least i keep telling myself this) is that there are still a few low hanging fruit we can grab (our scrum is still a mess).

I was quite impressed not just the 2H (obviously) but the 1H too. We gave the ball away a bit on the 1H(47% possesion and 43% in op territory) but when we had the ball we were very good.
We suffered a bit on 1H when they opened wide (our weakest point) but they lacked the precision to hurt us and our centers did a good job putting a lot on pressure and closing spaces.
Momentum is huge for us and don't see any reason to stop in the next games.
Our fixture is not bad at all (against direct competition and we're ahead in points), so i'm afraid i'm forced to be optimistic. I've ran out of excuses not to be.

Sharks game at home is the do or die game for us. After that it's Stormers (H), Sharks (A) and Bulls (A). We should be able to take the Stormers at home and the last two are just about managing damage control as we can afford losing those games as long as we don't give away bonus points if we beat .
If we lose to Sharks the entire thing collapses, course.

Ledesma has accomplished a small miracle. Couldn't be happier. Today's performance was superb. He's even turned Lavanini from a liability to a huge asset.

 

[AM_Bokke]

How was the officiating in the Jags v Bulls game? I didn't get a chance to watch.

 

[Brigantine]

With just a bit of luck there's actually a reasonable chance for us to make it to the semis (we end up 7th, tah's 2nd which given the remaining fixture for Lions and Tahs is not that far stretched).

Waratahs pulling ahead of the Lions you say? It sounds crazy, but they do have 2 games in hand, and those 2 games are against the Reds and Sunwolves... The only hard game the Waratahs have left is vs Chiefs. So fair call!

 

[Aspry]

We are back bois

Just want to praise Ledesma a bit, it's about time we got someone who actually knows some rugby. Hope he overtakes Hourcade soon.