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[2013 EOYT] England

Possible centre combo's from the EPS:

12. 36
13. Eastmond - He's only played there once afaik

12. Eastmond
13. 36
This would be ok I think.

10. Burns
12. Farrell
13. 36
I think that would be pretty poor.

From the Saxons:

12. 36
13. JJ/Tomkins/Trinder/Allen/Lowe/Daly/May/Burrell
 
Maybe he tore it struggling with the weight of all the critisim from people with no sense of humour he's been carrying since the 'ears'?

Although I'm gutted we'll be without him I think it might be a chance to show the world that England can function without the human wrecking ball at 13. I hope Lancaster brings up a real 13 from the Saxons (Trinder or Daly presuming he returns to form) rather than shoe horning someone else in. Outside centre is the kind of position you have to be very talented to switch to from another position and so someone who plays a lot there would be preferable to sticking a 12 a bit further out and hiping for the best.
 
Twelvetrees has played 13 for Leicester, and probably played it more than Eastmond has played 13.
 
How about Mark Cueto!?

Completely agree Patchey - sooner or later England need to break this bad habit of shoe-horning; we have the largest player base in the world, we quite simply don't need to do it (subject to movement restrictions between the eps and saxons which I must admit I don't entirely understand)

I still believe Jonathan Joseph is the one - to my humble eyes he looked exciting against Argentina - good step and offload. After him my second choice would be Lowe who I think has been really consistent for a number of seasons. Daly's an absolute talent and Wasps look a shadow of a side without his pace and creativity at 13 - he's injured though and won't have time to stake a claim for the autumn i don't imagine. Trinder therefore is the next best option, though his defence has been questionable in the past?
 
In a strange way, it could help England in the medium-term. I don't think it's coincidence that the backline's best attacking game under Lancaster was against Scotland- when Tuilagi was absent. Farrell had to concentrate more on spreading the ball wide, rather than defaulting to Manu-smash. Of course it would have been nice to hopefully see them spreading it wide with Manu involved this autumn, but at least the hand is forced.

Bearing in mind that Barritt is gone as well, I'd bring in both Tomkins and Joseph. Gives two inside and two outside-centres to pick a combination from. Of those two, I'd pick Joseph. I thought he did well, though didn't shine, in the summer. His set up of Strettle's try in the first test was superb.
 
Crapspray - I'd put the NZ game above that. Tuilagi was awesome that day. While I see benefits in finding new ways to do things without him, and exploring the depth, its also a loss in terms of not learning how to use our greatest weapon. That and the decreased chances of victory.

HenryChinaski said:
How about Mark Cueto!?
Click to expand...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Peat said:
its also a loss in terms of not learning how to use our greatest weapon. That and the decreased chances of victory.
Click to expand...

Agree with this totally. It would have been awesome to see 36/Eastmond play alongside Manu.


I've just re-watched the Bath-Sarries match to have a look at Billy. I noticed a few things:

- Billy looks like he has increased his workrate massively(!) and is one of the most effective ball carriers I have ever seen.
He's also lost the air of petulance and indiscipline, he looks happy to be playing.
If Morgan doesn't come into form I'd be very happy to see Billy start.
"Big Ewis" is going to love him.

- Davey Wilson should be our first choice TH. His scrummaging technique is outstanding - he must have one of the strongest backs in the sport.
The new scrums are benefiting him a lot. Because he props in the traditional way (i.e. He makes himself a platform for his lock and no.8 to drive through) his partnership with Attwood works really well.
If you throw someone like Billy in at no.8 I am fairly confident Davey could demolish Australia in the scrum.
Aside from his scrummaging, he is a very good ball carrier and he has upped his workrate in defence (he made 11 against Sarries).

- Ashton looks on an upward curve. BUT - he is still running up and planting his feet square on to the player before he tackles, allowing them to brush past his weak arm.

- Anthony Watson looks immense.
 
Cueto for England!
I'd really want to keep 36 at 12 - get him to cement it as his own.
My personal choice would be for JJ to come in, but I wouldn't be upset to see Trinder there at all.
Will probably be Goode or something ridiculous though.
 
Peat said:
Crapspray - I'd put the NZ game above that. Tuilagi was awesome that day. While I see benefits in finding new ways to do things without him, and exploring the depth, its also a loss in terms of not learning how to use our greatest weapon. That and the decreased chances of victory.
Click to expand...
To clarify, I mean the backs other than Tuilagi. Excluding Tuilagi, against the All Blacks they looked their usual dull selves, given that he set up or scored all the tries.

I mentioned the medium term because of the lower chance of victory in the autumn. Trying to put a positive spin on it I suppose. I certainly would have loved to see 36 and Tuilagi together, especially since it wasn't tried in the Six Nations.


ratsapprentice said:
If you throw someone like Billy in at no.8 I am fairly confident Davey could demolish Australia in the scrum.
Click to expand...
Not to be too flippant, nor tempt fate, but I don't think it matters whether it's Cole or Wilson scrummaging against Australia. The only thing that might turn it in their favour is if Corbisiero isn't available. Aside from that, looking at their performances so far in the Rugby Championship, I don't think it's an area that needs attention. It would be fun to watch though.
 
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It will matter against Argentina and NZ though.
And I seem to remember Cole not handling the Aus scrum too well last year.
 
Can replacements come from outside of the Saxons? If not, Trinder's a no-go.
 
ratsapprentice said:
And I seem to remember Cole not handling the Aus scrum too well last year.
Click to expand...

I think that was more two looseheads who were 22 and 21 and with single-figure caps, the starting one getting injured after ten minutes but playing until after halftime. With the Aussies collapsing the scrum on demand and feeding into the number 8's feet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of starting Wilson; I just thought it'd be a little overkill to bring in Wilson, Attwood, and Vunipola to attack the Aussie scrum. Since the new laws have been introduced it's been badly exposed.
 
Replacements do officially have to come from the Saxons, but there is nothing stopping a coach from naming someone like Trinder as an injury replacement for the Saxons - and then saying he's the injury replacement from the Saxons for the main squad - so in reality, yeah, anyone.

Crapspray said:
I think that was more two looseheads who were 22 and 21 and with single-figure caps, the starting one getting injured after ten minutes but playing until after halftime. With the Aussies collapsing the scrum on demand and feeding into the number 8's feet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of starting Wilson; I just thought it'd be a little overkill to bring in Wilson, Attwood, and Vunipola to attack the Aussie scrum. Since the new laws have been introduced it's been badly exposed.
Click to expand...

Plus Youngs was getting driven away from Cole a fair bit.
 

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