[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

[BPM]

Does anyone have a gif/video? Watching it in real time, you could make a case for him coming in at the side, but I don't recall it being a particularly violent or reckless clear-out?

Either way, it would be huge shame if Retallick were to miss the RWC as a result.

 

[mania]

For what?

Unbound coming into a ruck from the side reckless
It was a dirty shot.

 

[mania]

Mo'unga experiment imo failed. Move Barrett back to 10 so he can get his hands on the ball more.
Mo'unga skill vs Barrett magic? Sorry Mo'unga
Bender is the worlds best fullback.
With Mo'unga off ABs can bring on Reece
SBW has had his day
Rieko had a quiet game
Retallick and whitelock were massive
Awesome game boks exactly what ABs need to build up to WC

 

[Icemn]

So with the draw NZ retains the freedom cup

 

[OneBlackEye]

iTs rUgBY VaLUeS

Wouldn't be an All Blacks thread without you whinging about the haka and ref bias. You're coming off a little desperate.

 

[Derpus]

Leaving aside ref bias, the Haka is without doubt an advantage. It's a war dance. There's a reason people who used to fight actual wars used war dances.

Don't have a problem with it though. Maybe other countries should cook up their own war dances.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wouldn't be an All Blacks thread without you whinging about the haka and ref bias. You're coming off a little desperate.

I really don't care about either, but if you can't see the hypocrisy I don't know what to tell you

 

[bushytop]

I really don't care about either, but if you can't see the hypocrisy I don't know what to tell you

So I must've missed something... what actually was the response to the haka?

 

[Rinkadink]

Interesting game, fair result. SBW pass to create the AB try was great and sums up the all round threat he possesses. Lovely from Boks at the end too. Line outs were a farce, not sure one was straight?

Unbound coming into a ruck from the side reckless
It was a dirty shot.

ABs equally guilty if not worse of ruck offenses, particularly second half. Not a red card, unfortunate for BR. Wish him a speedy recovery (why didn't the medics sling his arm?).

Leaving aside ref bias, the Haka is without doubt an advantage. It's a war dance. There's a reason people who used to fight actual wars used war dances.

Don't have a problem with it though. Maybe other countries should cook up their own war dances.

They don't have to cook up their own war dance but a team should be allowed to respond as they see fit. Ignore it, turn their back, face up, confront with their own, sing, whatever.

No team should be fined for fronting up to people screaming in their faces making throat cutting motions for example.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So I must've missed something... what actually was the response to the haka?

I'm talking in general
English crowd sings? Utter disrespect, bad for the game, not real rugby values
Wales want to perform their anthem after the haka? Utter disrespect, bad for the game, not real rugby values
Booing and jeering the opposition kicker in a tight game? Aye, fair play crack on, that's what respect is all about

 

[bushytop]

I'm talking in general
English crowd sings? Utter disrespect, bad for the game, not real rugby values
Wales want to perform their anthem after the haka? Utter disrespect, bad for the game, not real rugby values
Booing and jeering the opposition kicker in a tight game? Aye, fair play crack on, that's what respect is all about

Ah right... soz misread the situation. I totally agree, if the New Zealander's (Samoans, Tongans & Fijians) are aloud to perform a proclamation of war (which I'm all for btw) the people whom the proclamation of war is targeted at should be able to 'declare' war in return.

Just read that the Frenchies got fined for fronting up to it in the 2011 RWC final (prob aware at the time but forgot) which is ridiculous... and obvs there was the BOD getting speared incident. For the New Zealander's to have their nose put of joint SO much by a mere response to having been declared war against... something has to have been lost in translation here.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ah right... soz misread the situation. I totally agree, if the New Zealander's (Samoans, Tongans & Fijians) are aloud to perform a proclamation of war (which I'm all for btw) the people whom the proclamation of war is targeted at should be able to 'declare' war in return.

Just read that the Frenchies got fined for fronting up to it in the 2011 RWC final (prob aware at the time but forgot) which is ridiculous... and obvs there was the BOD getting speared incident. For the New Zealander's to have their nose put of joint SO much by a mere response to having been declared war against... something has to have been lost in translation here.

They got fined for that because of what happened prior to that, like when the Springboks walked in unison up to them and there was a head-to-head connection between Bakkies Botha and an All Black player.

From there onwards there was a ruling that opposition teams shouldn't walk up to the team performing the Haka/wardance and should rather use their emotion on the field.

Anyways, maybe it's just me, but whenever the AB's perform the Haka against the Boks, I like to see the Boks players faces, it seems like the Haka fires them up even more. And I can just picture that in a guy like Duane Vermeulen's head he's thinking in afrikaans: "Vandag kak julle"!

 

[bushytop]

They got fined for that because of what happened prior to that, like when the Springboks walked in unison up to them and there was a head-to-head connection between Bakkies Botha and an All Black player.

From there onwards there was a ruling that opposition teams shouldn't walk up to the team performing the Haka/wardance and should rather use their emotion on the field.

Anyways, maybe it's just me, but whenever the AB's perform the Haka against the Boks, I like to see the Boks players faces, it seems like the Haka fires them up even more. And I can just picture that in a guy like Duane Vermeulen's head he's thinking in afrikaans: "Vandag kak julle"!

I think it comes down to individual mentalities. I see a lot of people (on here and elsewhere) saying that they think that the haka gives the AB's the advantage but like what you have said in relation to the Boks... if anything I feel if I was facing it it would give me the advantage as I'd be ready to go to war more than ever.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think it comes down to individual mentalities. I see a lot of people (on here and elsewhere) saying that they think that the haka gives the AB's the advantage but like what you have said in relation to the Boks... if anything I feel if I was facing it it would give me the advantage as I'd be ready to go to war more than ever.

True. But for the Boks there is no bigger match than the AB's, and we want them to throw the kitchen sink at us. Based on the numerous interviews by current and former players, there is a common theme that they enjoy the Haka and the intensity it brings to the match.

 

[BobbyM]

Interestingly there doesn't seem to be the same outcry in the NH about the Sipi Tau, the Siva Tau and the Cibi when they are performed.

 

[bushytop]

@TRF_heineken

The Boks vs Blacks is probably the greatest rivalry in Test Match rugby but I'd argue the playing the Blacks is the biggest match for every nation... I mean yes us in Wales love playing the English (& the Irish) but it is the games vs the Blacks that are the most special.

and I think maybe your misunderstanding me... I have no issue whatsoever with the haka... I love it! Was introduced to it when I was about 4 or 5 with all the mystique that a father and grandfather could muster. It's only gotten better over the years too. My... and some of the other people's issue on here is the inability to pose a response to a declaration of war before the game kicks off.

 

[bushytop]

Interestingly there doesn't seem to be the same outcry in the NH about the Sipi Tau, the Siva Tau and the Cibi when they are performed.

No one is complaining about the haka... just the fact it is deemed 'immaculate' by world rugby.

 

[TRF_heineken]

@TRF_heineken

The Boks vs Blacks is probably the greatest rivalry in Test Match rugby but I'd argue the playing the Blacks is the biggest match for every nation... I mean yes us in Wales love playing the English (& the Irish) but it is the games vs the Blacks that are the most special.

and I think maybe your misunderstanding me... I have no issue whatsoever with the haka... I love it! Was introduced to it when I was about 4 or 5 with all the mystique that a father and grandfather could muster. It's only gotten better over the years too. My... and some of the other people's issue on here is the inability to pose a response to a declaration of war before the game kicks off.

I get it. But what should the response be? When the Pacific islanders play each other both teams perform their wardances. Should South Africa get some Zulu warriors with gumboots and so an african gumboot dance? turning your back on them for me, is a sign of utter disrespect. Either because you don't respect them, or you have an inferiority complex and are afraid of what they might do to you.

Maybe the Scots should wear kilts, and then just as the Haka is finished they can turn around and throw them a brown-eye like William Wallace and his men did in Braveheart.

The purpose of the wardance for the opposition team is to show that they accept the challenge, as the Wardance is like an introduction before the "war" starts. Maybe England should have their captain climb on a horse and ride ahead of his charges towards the AB's.

Just a bit tongue in cheek humour from me. Honestly I don't know what opposing teams can do as a response. My honest opinion is that the best response is to beat them, and let the scoreboard be the answer to "challenge accepted".

 

[bushytop]

Just a bit tongue in cheek humour from me. Honestly I don't know what opposing teams can do as a response. My honest opinion is that the best response is to beat them, and let the scoreboard be the answer to "challenge accepted".

Obviously going out and winning is the best response... easier said than done of course.

You'll have to excuse the brevity of my answer as I'm halfway through a work out because there are many areas that could be explored here. The one I'll mention is... if during the biggest test match of the year, the opposing captain decides to throw some blades of grass in the air in a response to a war dance, should he then be targeted for a potential career-ending illegal tackle?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Ah right... soz misread the situation. I totally agree, if the New Zealander's (Samoans, Tongans & Fijians) are aloud to perform a proclamation of war (which I'm all for btw) the people whom the proclamation of war is targeted at should be able to 'declare' war in return.

Just read that the Frenchies got fined for fronting up to it in the 2011 RWC final (prob aware at the time but forgot) which is ridiculous... and obvs there was the BOD getting speared incident. For the New Zealander's to have their nose put of joint SO much by a mere response to having been declared war against... something has to have been lost in translation here.

Do we have to have another thread about the haka? It's been done to death

To summarise what we normally end up realising but then forget for some reason...kiwis don't care what you in response, WR might for some reason but I've never met a kiwi that did, if the players feel disrespected on the ground that's just going to fire them up more

But I do agree with the double standard, booing a kicker sucks and should be discouraged