2nd test - Australia v British & Irish Lions

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Really hard to make a case that Smith is better than Russell

I think Smith was in better form pre lions and people got carried away but Russell with over 10 years extra experience than Finn was going to come out on top.

It must have been hard for Fin going on tour knowing that he was second choice, guess that’s why he’s been trying to hard. Then to be usurped by Farrell who last played 10 at a high level about 5 years ago must be frustrating.

 

[ncurd]

Sorry but no at international level F. Smith hasn't shown close to the class Russell has shown time and time again. There's no way he was anything other than 1st choice this tour.

He might get there someday but I'd take Russell at any point in his international career over F. Smith

But ive always been in the camp it was crime against Rugby that Gatland ever picked Biggar over him.

 

[General Melchett]

Smith and Saints in general had a great end to the season especially with that win in Dublin but Russell has been class for Bath for two seasons. He'd probably have two league winners medals if not for Obano's early red last year. He was class for Racing for five years and so his uptick in club form is not just recent.

People talk him down after Scotland lose or finish 4th in the 6N but the Scottish pack gives him about the same platform as Lynagh had to work with last weekend. He then has to take risks and try and force things to compensate and that's when errors creep in and people run him down. Scotland's front 5 is their problem and has been for years. Put him behind a decent pack and he thrives - just like any other world class ten.

 

[ncurd]

Smith and Saints in general had a great end to the season especially with that win in Dublin but Russell has been class for Bath for two seasons. He'd probably have two league winners medals if not for Obano's early red last year. He was class for Racing for five years and so his uptick in club form is not just recent.

People talk him down after Scotland lose or finish 4th in the 6N but the Scottish pack gives him about the same platform as Lynagh had to work with last weekend. He then has to take risks to compensate and that's when errors creep in and people run him down. Scotland's front 5 is their problem and has been for years. Put him behind a decent pack and he thrives - just like any other world class ten.

Agreed I do wonder about the plaudits he'd have internationally if he played for any of thebother Lions nations. Sure Ireland he'd have struggled to start over Sexton bit hes better than every other fly half whos played in his career. And he'd have had far better packs from Ire, Eng or Wal

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Agreed I do wonder about the plaudits he'd have internationally if he played for any of thebother Lions nations. Sure Ireland he'd have struggled to start over Sexton bit hes better than every other fly half whos played in his career. And he'd have had far better packs from Ire, Eng or Wal

He’s better than all ther fly half who’s played in his career???

Think you are re-writing history there.

 

[ncurd]

He's better than all ther fly half who's played in his career???

Think you are re-writing history there.

From Lions nations during Russell's career. And I'm saying Sexton he'd have struggled to get selecting over.

But yeah better than any Wales, England and Ireland (not Sexton) fly half in the the last 12 years. He's better than Biggar, Ford (whos my third choice) and Farrell. Who would you rank him below?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Russell is probably the best "maverick" style 10 I've seen but mostly because he's the only one that I've seen really improve how he manages a game and plays phase to phase over his career. Even with that he still seems to have the type of errors and physical limitations that I hate in a 10 but he is good enough to hide them probably 2/3 matches he plays.

If a player like M Smith or B Barrett could get / have gotten to the level of tactical kicking and pass selection Fin Russell currently has they'd have had peaks to rival Dan Carter. 4.5 years ago though Biggar was the better 10, the Lions tour happened when he started dipping and Russell overtook him, in hindsight that was the wrong call but I don't think it makes the top 10 of Gatland shockers (leaving Sexton on the bench to accommodate Ben Te'o starting accounts for numbers 1, 2 and 3 there though). Up until about 2019 you wouldn't have picked him over Ford or Farrell and he'd have always been Sexton's back up until 2023.

Last two years he's been the best in the 6n but even at that, if he was French I think he'd struggle to oust N'tamack who's just a perfect fit in that team.

Very very very good 10 but for the first half of his international career (2014 - 2019/20) he was the 5th best 10 in the Lions nations with periods at 6th early on when he who shall not be named was a better rounded 10 on the bench for Ireland.

 

[ncurd]

but I don't think it makes the top 10 of Gatland shockers (leaving Sexton on the bench to accommodate Ben Te'o starting accounts for numbers 1, 2 and 3 there though).

I mean this is fair but Gatlands crimes against rugby is a very long rap sheet. Rassie had committed bigger crimes but is actually a good coach.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't wait until this tour's over so we can stop talking about the merits of players from other countries and go back to calling them fat and/or weak

 

[ncurd]

Can't wait until this tour's over so we can stop talking about the merits of players from other countries and go back to calling them fat and/or weak

I know right? If i think Farrell is overrated its nothing compared to Biggar but usually it gets lost in "well hes Welsh"

 

[ncurd]

Last two years he's been the best in the 6n but even at that, if he was French I think he'd struggle to oust N'tamack who's just a perfect fit in that team.

N'tamack it why I excluded France. And that's because I can't decide if Dupont/Russell would be greatest thing in running rugby and would blind us all because it was meant to be seen by human eyes. Or comically hilarious in how bad it is.

 

[General Melchett]

Can't wait until this tour's over so we can stop talking about the merits of players from other countries and go back to calling them fat and/or weak

I was shocked when I heard Tom Curry speak on one of the Lions BTS videos. I was expecting a deep booming regional accent and didn't realise how softly spoken he is with that posh Rees Mogg/royal family accent which isn't what you would expect when when you look at him and see him play. Guess looks can be deceiving.

 

[dirty harry]

From Lions nations during Russell's career. And I'm saying Sexton he'd have struggled to get selecting over.

But yeah better than any Wales, England and Ireland (not Sexton) fly half in the the last 12 years. He's better than Biggar, Ford (whos my third choice) and Farrell. Who would you rank him below?

I wouldnt swap this Russell for prime Biggar or prime Farrel tbh. Both those 10s marshalled their countries to GSs and RWC semi finals.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can't wait until this tour's over so we can stop talking about the merits of players from other countries and go back to calling them fat and/or weak

If the Lions win tomorrow I propose a very negative and toxic test 3 thread. Anyone found complimenting a player not from their own club needs to be banned.

 

[General Melchett]

I wouldnt swap this Russell for prime Biggar or prime Farrel tbh. Both those 10s marshalled their countries to GSs and RWC semi finals.

True but Russell has never played behind a top quality pack and under an elite head coach at international level. Put him in a peak Saracens side or in peak Gatland Wales team and he's achieving the same things as OF and DB if not more. He's showing at Bath that he can follow a playbook, exert control and stay disciplined under a coach like JVG or under AF with the Lions.

 

[dirty harry]

True but Russell has never played behind a top quality pack under an elite head coach at international level. Put him in a peak Saracens side or in peak Gatland Wales team and he's achieving the same things as OF and DB if not more.

Im not sure, firstly if you read comments here Gatland was a terrible int coach lol.

I've done nothing but rave about Russell this tour, ive always seen him as a talented ball player but poor role model and not a great team player (although that might be a bit harsh), but this your, not only his commitment in defence, but his marshaling others, and even when Jorgenson stripped to score in the corner Russell saved 2 points with his chase.

Who knows what he could have achieved in a better team, but at least he's in this generational Scottish team fighting for 3rd spots, instead of the 90s and 00s Scotland, or even worse 2020s wales

 

[General Melchett]

Im not sure, firstly if you read comments here Gatland was a terrible int coach lol.

I've done nothing but rave about Russell this tour, ive always seen him as a talented ball player but poor role model and not a great team player (although that might be a bit harsh), but this your, not only his commitment in defence, but his marshaling others, and even when Jorgenson stripped to score in the corner Russell saved 2 points with his chase.

Who knows what he could have achieved in a better team, but at least he's in this generational Scottish team fighting for 3rd spots, instead of the 90s and 00s Scotland, or even worse 2020s wales

Yeah there's a lot of moot 'we'll never know' debates. Many say Gatland was proved right after he dropped BOD for the third test 12 years ago but it's still possible they could have won with him in the team - we'll never know.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think you're all a bunch of pricks.

 

[Reiser99]

I think you're all a bunch of pricks.

Feeling's mutual sheep shagger!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Feeling's mutual sheep shagger!

I only shag the good looking ones.