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Argentina: "Amateurism = success"

I play rugby in argentine and there's a large dispute here. Aginst the people who believe rugby should turn to professional and the old rugby names who take amateurism almost as a dogma. The really really hate the idea of argentinnian rugby being professional. I believe amateurism is great but has it flaws as everything.
 
I don't think that amateurism is the succes key of the great world cup that Argentina disputed...

I even don't think that Argentina's national team players are amateurs.... isn't it?

They play (most of them) in european teams so that's why they are one of the best teams.
They can also relax and increase their training while other european players must play in 6 nations tournament...
 
see myself agreeing with BokMagik here.
A argentinian re shuffle and a Buenos Aeires super 14 team and maybe a Patagonian team would help the situation. But who makes the decisions, would the tri-nations want another team joining? The costs of travel to another part of the world yearly, sharing profits 4 ways etc?

but what this world cup has shown is argentina will refuse to be ignored from now on

and i look forward to their future. Hell, maybe a lions tour to argentina one day, now THAT will be tough
 
In the last month we've learned that Argentina are successful because of their amateur model at home. France and England are successful because they're well versed in battling for results due to promotion and relegation. Australia and New Zealand faltered because they aren't geared in the art of winning ugly. Wales and Ireland failed because they don't play a high enough level of competition.

Before the World Cup, the same journalists who were spouting this nonsense were arguing the exact opposite. People like Stuart Barnes were arguing that relegation should be scrapped because it encouraged negative play - now it's the way forward. Jim Glennon argues that Ireland went out early because the Magners League isn't a serious competition and the top internationals are wrapped in cotton wool for bigger games - 6 months ago the same person said Ireland had the ideal system.

The point I'm trying to get across is that when you're winning, everybody sings from the same hymn sheet expressing that their own system is the best system. When you lose, you always want what you don't have. If Les Cusworth believes that the Argentinian system is best then good for him. However I think he'd be doing rugby in that country a diservice if he fails to put in place a proper review of the best way forward rather than simply relying on his gut instinct. Complacency will ultimately result in failure - ask the IRFU.

I fundamentally disagree with this assertion:
The strength and passion of the game in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales is based in club rugby and we have dismantled all that with the professional game.[/b]
Ireland before professionalism were going nowhere. Since the IRFU began taking professionalism seriously in 1998 (or so), we've seen interest in the national team reach an all time high, Munster build a new stadium to cater for demand (Thomond Park is being redeveloped into a 26,000 capacity stadium), Ulster looking to expand Ravenhill, Leinster outgrow Donnybrook (they now play in the 18,000 capacity RDS and have filled Lansdowne Road on quite a few occasions) and Lansdowne Road becoming modernised into a potential cashcow for the IRFU. The game is being expanded into non traditional areas (the Tallaght strategy), there has been underage success at international level (an U19 World Cup win, numerous age grade Triple Crowns, an U20 Grand Slam in an U21 6 Nations) and playing numbers (at under 18 level) are growing rapidly at many clubs.

A poor World Cup for Ireland doesn't mean that we've got our system wrong, rather it needs tweaking. Likewise, there's no need for the UAR's director of rugby to be shouting from the rooftops that they're doing it the right way. Argentina are in a position to judge the best way forward by watching how other teams have developed their structures in the first 12 years of professionalism. I feel they'd be wise to use that knowledge to help thrust Argentina forward as a potential superpower of the sport rather than rest on their laurels and pray that there's another golden generation of players coming after the likes of Ledesma, Scelzo, Roncero, Longo, Pichot and Contepomi, who probably won't be in New Zealand in 4 years time. If the don't professionalize their domestic game, they must at least ensure they have a proper coaching academy in place to secure the future of the sport.
 
Ol' Snoop Doggy Woggy is correct. This was a matter of commitment, focus and passion for Ireland rather than a question of how they run the game.

Thomond Park and the new Lansdowne Road will be huge investments for the IRFU, every penny of which well spent. When the time comes for an even bigger palace of Rugby in Ireland, they will have the luxury of maybe hosting a Six Nations game or two at the new Thurmond Park. And when I say luxury, that is a nice looking stadium they are proposing there!

Next time it would be better to do a better run up to a World Cup but again, that is down to the players and the coaches and not the system.
 
It certainly will be interesting reading back to the current media inquests in 3 years time. Sport is always up and down, bandwagons are always beng toted, and no system will ever produce a 100% winning record.

Once again I think the WC is providing rose tinted glasses, for most. I also hope that Argentina's world cup euphoria doesn't give them dilusions of a system that is successful. Every union needs to focus on more than just a 6week tournament every 4 years. Rugby (and rugby teams) needs to be growing and developing in the years between also.

Ireland as a case in point are the perfect example of this, as snoop pointed out. They have had a torrid 6 weeks, but have made some great strides over the past 4 years. After this cup, what has Argentina got to look forward to? Development needs to happen, and world cup performances should be the catalyst for greater change, not the goal of that change.

The world cup is a great event, but our game is bigger than this and Argentina need to do great things outside of this tournament also, as does everyone (club and nation alike) to grow this sport.

I think alot of coaches and unions get it wrong by saying "Judge me by the World Cup" (although there is no better source of change than performing or not performing at this event).

Sport matches can go either way, at any time. Afterall, how do you justify South Africa's success in a media spin kind of way?

They have constant political unrest within their sporting body. They are 100% professional. Their top players don't play promotion/relegation rugby. Alot of their talent is skimmed off to play in other parts of the world, for other clubs and national teams. Their sport is played by only a small cross-section of their society. They were beaten in the tournament leading up to the World Cup, both at home and away. They rested players from top flight games before the tournament started.

Yet, they are still the favourites to win the world cup. I for one certainly don't think that they'll let it go to their heads and stick with the system they've got. And neither should anyone else. Because everyone is always looking to gain that little edge, and if you stick with what you've got for too long you'll get left behind.
 
After this cup, what has Argentina got to look forward to? Development needs to happen, and world cup performances should be the catalyst for greater change, not the goal of that change.[/b]

A couple of test matches in June IRB window ... nothing before that :(
 
<div class='quotemain'>After this cup, what has Argentina got to look forward to? Development needs to happen, and world cup performances should be the catalyst for greater change, not the goal of that change.[/b]

A couple of test matches in June IRB window ... nothing before that :(
[/b][/quote]
Argentina deserves the chance to play more matches.
 
Exactly guys! Rugby needs to use this World Cup as the launching pad for growing the game. There is no better time than now to drive this sport home to the newly emerged Argetinean fans.

We can't let a good world cup go to our heads.
 
argentina boooooooooooooo! bad team !!!!!!
[/b]

Los Pumas a bad team? Coming from a frog? Ridiculous to say the least.

34-10, FIVE tries to ONE at home. We have beaten you twice at YOUR RWC and we have beaten you 6 of last 7 matches.
 
<div class='quotemain'>
argentina boooooooooooooo! bad team !!!!!!
[/b]

Los Pumas a bad team? Coming from a frog? Ridiculous to say the least.

34-10, FIVE tries to ONE at home. We have beaten you twice at YOUR RWC and we have beaten you 6 of last 7 matches. [/b][/quote]



So what? Argentina knows how to beat France as Ellissalde said. That doesn't mean you are good. And this might have an end soon with our new coach. How can your team end a rugby game (in a world cup) with such disrespect: cheating on the pitch (how many offsides? 8? 16?), insults in the locker room (great attitude Argentina, coming and insulting french players before and after the game). Well, I live in Sweden, I play Rugby for years now, and my mates in the team (who come from Ireland, New Zealand, England and Fidji) basically agreed on a successful Argentina, but not a beautiful one. Next time maybe. But definitely not this one.
 
So what? Argentina knows how to beat France as Ellissalde said. [/b]

Oh, thank's to the brilliant rat (isn't that his nickname?), he's going to discover america at this pace! By the way he's Elissalde, only one l.

That doesn't mean you are good.[/b]

It means France is WORSE than los Pumas. Go ahead and check FRENCH RWC final results:
1. SA
2. ENG
3. ARG
4. FRA

If you have more doubts go ahead and check the IRB ranking:
1.SA
2.NZ
3.ARG
4.ENG

And this might have an end soon with our new coach.[/b]

We will see in the next RWC :) Meanwhile France has been CLEARLY beaten twice at home by a bad team according to people like you who can't accept defeat graciously.

How can your team end a rugby game (in a world cup) with such disrespect: cheating on the pitch (how many offsides? 8? 16?), insults in the locker room (great attitude Argentina, coming and insulting french players before and after the game).[/b]

Yeah, they should behave like Ibañez or Elissalde! Come on!

Well, I live in Sweden, I play Rugby for years now, and my mates in the team (who come from Ireland, New Zealand, England and Fidji) basically agreed on a successful Argentina, but not a beautiful one. Next time maybe. But definitely not this one.[/b]

Really, I don't care about where you live, where your mates are from or what they think. You seem to be pretty upset and unable to accept facts. Just check the last match, a very beautiful demolition that included five tries, the third one between the best of this RWC.

Not a beautiful one ... haha, that's funny, you seem to be stuck in the past when Rugby Champagne was more than just an old memory. You should better watch again last years of french rugby ...
 

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