Banned substances in rugby

[paul_crowley9]

Players these days seem to be getting bigger and bigger and as a younger fan I can't help but feel steroids are becoming more and more prominent in the modern game , any one have any comments on this?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not really worried to be honest.
Professionalism is still settling in so you will see players get bigger and more muscular as the sport learns from more mature sports/organisations.
Compare the level of athleticism in rugby to that of an organisation that PED's are known to be prevalent in (like the NFL or Athletics) and you might feel less concerned.
I'm not trying to **** on the level of conditioning in Rugby - but it's certainly not at a point where it's "too good to be true".

 

[paul_crowley9]

Fair point but I find it hard to believe the size and physicality of the South Africans in particular , they're pack weighs over 1000 kg combined and they're mobile to say the least , surely players in that pack would've been taking something perhaps in their late teens or during off seasons to bulk up?

 

[big ginger 8]

Fair point but I find it hard to believe the size and physicality of the South Africans in particular , they're pack weighs over 1000 kg combined and they're mobile to say the least , surely players in that pack would've been taking something perhaps in their late teens or during off seasons to bulk up?

I dunno the South Africans who play rugby have always been absolutely massive, maybe some South Africans can give more of an insight on it.

I find it hard to believe the players at the top of the game take PED's though I'm sure a number at the lower levels would. I'd say the most likely time for any player to take them would be when they're in school but how many would actually do that at that age?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not really.
If you've got decent genetics you can get pretty enormous pretty quickly naturally, if required.
Especially if it's your job.

That's not to say people don't take drugs, but I think you're comparing people who have the talent/genetics to get to that level and "regular" people.

 

[paul_crowley9]

I think you'd be surprised at the amount of 17/18/19 year olds taking banned substances , for example in one of Ireland's most prestigious rugby schools there's a rumour that 3 players have been kicked off the schools senior team for taking steroids . It is only a rumour though . To add to this drug testing has been introduced to Irish schools rugby

 

[Jaguares]

In all high-level sports are steroids. Whoever says no, never train hard. He who goes to the gym, meet some physical trainer or any professional athlete knows this. In the toughest sports there are inevitably steroids, sports such as: Boxing, MMA, Athletics, American football, rugby, etc.

There are light sports like soccer or tennis that don't require much preparation. In those sports steroids aren't required, but hard sports if needed. People who criticize to steroids in sports is because they don't need steroids in their sports.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Schoolboy rugby is not the same as top level professional rugby.
You get a lot more people taking drugs at lower levels purely because you get people that need to in order to offset their lack of talent.
If a player needs to take steroids in order to sustain his career then he is not really worth the risk/effort to a club.

 

[big ginger 8]

I think you'd be surprised at the amount of 17/18/19 year olds taking banned substances , for example in one of Ireland's most prestigious rugby schools there's a rumour that 3 players have been kicked off the schools senior team for taking steroids . It is only a rumour though . To add to this drug testing has been introduced to Irish schools rugby

Yeah I'm qite involved in Irish schools rugby, as I'm an actual player. They're only ever rumours and I'd say most are absolute bull****, the most credible one I've heard was a player from last year but even then it was hearsay and I'd doubt it. Which school are you talking about? In these case it seems to generally be Blackrock, while I wouldn't trust Rock with a lot of stuff and wouldn't be overly surprised to hear this is true. I know I'd have heard if players were kicked off a team for steriods. Definitely for any team in Leinster at least.

 

[paul_crowley9]

Yeah I'm involved in schools rugby in Munster and the Leinster schools are generally bigger than us when we play them and although their strength and conditioning is superior to ours I can't help but wonder

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah I'm qite involved in Irish schools rugby, as I'm an actual player. They're only ever rumours and I'd say most are absolute bull****, the most credible one I've heard was a player from last year but even then it was hearsay and I'd doubt it. Which school are you talking about? In these case it seems to generally be Blackrock, while I wouldn't trust Rock with a lot of stuff and wouldn't be overly surprised to hear this is true. I know I'd have heard if players were kicked off a team for steriods. Definitely for any team in Leinster at least.

Keith you've been snorting pure rabies since the age of 9 and a half. That's why you're a bear cub.

 

[big ginger 8]

Yeah I'm involved in schools rugby in Munster and the Leinster schools are generally bigger than us when we play them and although their strength and conditioning is superior to ours I can't help but wonder

Well we used to find Munster schools were always bigger. But of course that was because of different age restrictions up until senior level.

I wouldn't be surprised if some players do but no way is it rampant. The better schools will also have more players who are on Leinster. These guys are generally already bigger than their peers when picked and are than given proper gym plans by professionals and nutrition advice. My school is smaller and sometimes we wonder as well how they're so big but in general, it's a lot of gym work, good diet and probably diet supplements from an early enough age. Also schools like Rock have 200 in year and bring in players from the club system and other schools. Last year only three from their winning team had been there since first year. With the kind of setup schools like that have it's not overly hard to find a few big guys.

 

[Tony Manx]

I know of a French player who went to England some four/five years ago to play for a Premiership team who was told by the coach that he needed to bulk up and to go on a course of steroids he would provide. The player pointed out that he had a specific clause in his contract that he would NOT be forced into such which the Rugby Director confirmed to the coach....he was shipped out at the end of that season and returned to France where he still refused and is no longer employed as a professional rugby player.

Anyone says that steroids and other pharma products are not used in top rugby are kidding themselves.................in my opinion, allegedly etc etc

 

[Jaguares]

Compare the level of athleticism in rugby to that of an organisation that PED's are known to be prevalent in (like the NFL or Athletics) and you might feel less concerned.
I'm not trying to **** on the level of conditioning in Rugby - but it's certainly not at a point where it's "too good to be true".

For me there isn't much difference between the NFL and the top level rugby, if you compare the speed and size of the best wide receive from the NFL and the best wingers from Rugby Union will not notice much difference between for example: Victor Cruz or Calvin Johnson and Julian Savea or Israel Folau.

The best Tight ends from NFL like Vernon Davis and Gronkowski are comparable in athletic condition with the best loose forwards or second rows from Rugby Union like Liam Messam and Eben Etzebeth.

Where if it makes a difference, it is in the defensive tackles from NFL. They are mutants, most weigh more than 150 kg and that's something rare in international rugby. But most of them are morbidly obese, but in the other positions there is little physical difference. Best international rugby players could excel in the NFL and the NFL's best players could excel in international rugby.

Cheers

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nothing to do with said player not being good enough though...

Anyone says that steroids and other pharma products are not used in top rugby are kidding themselves.................in my opinion, allegedly etc etc

I would agree. The same is true of all sports.

Does Rugby have a particular issue with it?... As in: Does it occur more than is average in professional sports?
I doubt it.

 

[psychic duck]

I dunno the South Africans who play rugby have always been absolutely massive, maybe some South Africans can give more of an insight on it.

I find it hard to believe the players at the top of the game take PED's though I'm sure a number at the lower levels would. I'd say the most likely time for any player to take them would be when they're in school but how many would actually do that at that age?

There are rumours about steroids and drug abuse involved in South African back in the 90's linked to the health problems several of the team have suffered since.

 

[dullonien]

I'm not sure myself. Whilst I don't doubt that it does happen, I don't think it's as easy as just saying that player x is too big and too fast, therefore must be on steroids. Didn't we all have the kids in school who were 6'2"-6'4" by the age of 16 and still quick? There were a good 3-4 in my year at school. None of them were on illegal substances (well not the performance enhancing kind anyway ). The problem there was a lack of skill, possibly stemming from poor coaching, or just a lack of natural talent; and a lack of application (none of them trained particularly hard on their strength and speed).

There are always going to be a handful of guys like that in a country, who happen to combine size, strength and skill. Just a matter of statistics.

 

[paul_crowley9]

To be honest I don't think it's just a 'coincidence' that South Africans are much much bigger than other rugby players

 

[psychic duck]

I'm not sure myself. Whilst I don't doubt that it does happen, I don't think it's as easy as just saying that player x is too big and too fast, therefore must be on steroids. Didn't we all have the kids in school who were 6'2"-6'4" by the age of 16 and still quick? There were a good 3-4 in my year at school. None of them were on illegal substances (well not the performance enhancing kind anyway ). The problem there was a lack of skill, possibly stemming from poor coaching, or just a lack of natural talent; and a lack of application (none of them trained particularly hard on their strength and speed).

There are always going to be a handful of guys like that in a country, who happen to combine size, strength and skill. Just a matter of statistics.

Yes, remember that Billy Vunipola pic from his U11's team?

 

[ratsapprentice]

I disagree, Conrad.
In my opinion, there are not all that many top level rugby players who would be up to the standards required by the NFL, let alone to be standouts.
The NFL is comparable to Athletics and other Olympic sports in it's focus on pure athletic ability.
Rugby does not share this to anywhere near the level of those sports - if it did, Richie McCaw would not be a standout player.

Players in the NFL get banned for like 2 or 3 games if they get caught using PED's.
And their players have been doing for at least 25 years - Rugby players have only been systematically going to the gym for maybe 15-20 years.
I just do not accept that sort of "steroid culture" where it's seen as acceptable to a certain extent is prevalent in our sport.

When we start getting an entire league with the athletic ability of Eben Etzebeth then we need to be worried.


Although to be frank - and to be clear - I'm not exactly staunchly anti-PED.