Bogey teams

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah a bogey team to me is one that you have a worse record than you think you should have against.

Scotland v Ireland is an example, in a time period where they've regularly beaten France, England and Wales they are 1 in 13 against us and there's definitely a few games in there that they should have won. How they didn't beat us from 2019 - 2021 was a clinic in letting occasions get to them.

Leinster - La Rochelle is another blatantly obvious one
Ireland - Argentina (1 for 4 in world cups)
England - Probably Scotland at the moment, Wales in the 2010s and Ireland in the 00s.
France - Scotland
NZ - probably Ireland currently, maybe Argentina at a stretch
SA - NZ?
Australia - nations that play rugby
Argentina kind of just potter along as expected.

 

[Which Tyler]

For me, a bogey team is where one team that you just fail to play well against, whether it's them raising their game, or you not getting into your groove - and that this is a predictable thing, backed up by results (even if those results are still narrow wins where they should be comfortable).

1-offs are definitely not bogey team, they're upsets. Those results don't ****le in the back of players and fans minds decades later, with a negative impact on future clashes.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

New Zealand=France.

I understand why people say this and i've used it myself as banter, but when you look at the stats, well, i don't think it's that clear.

faced each other 8 times in WCs, right? France won 1999, 2007 and this one. All others went to new zealand. The biggest stomping is probably 2015s game. That was actually painful to watch. And out of those 8 games two were RWC finals and both were won by New Zealand.

You could argue that Fra has a much better record vs NZ during WCs (vs taking into account all games), and that's probably the reason why people have this belief.

 

[die_mole]

I agree. Their results match the strengths of the squads at the time of the matches. When they are both great, they play close matches. When France is down, NZ doesn't seem to have many issues.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

I understand why people say this and i've used it myself as banter, but when you look at the stats, well, i don't think it's that clear.

faced each other 8 times in WCs, right? France won 1999, 2007 and this one. All others went to new zealand. The biggest stomping is probably 2015s game. That was actually painful to watch. And out of those 8 games two were RWC finals and both were won by New Zealand.

You could argue that Fra has a much better record vs NZ during WCs (vs taking into account all games), and that's probably the reason why people have this belief.

But not just in WCs, but also in friendlies France have a better record against NZ than do the other Six Nations teams.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

But not just in WCs, but also in friendlies France have a better record against NZ than do the other Six Nations teams.

So? This is between nz and fra. Rest doesnt matter. Picture this conversation.

French guy: We're your bogey and you know it. Everyone knows it. You don't wanna face us.
Nzlander: we played two world cup finals against each other. Both ended with us lifting the cup, celebrating and getting ****** as a lord while you guys cryied in the locker room.


There's not really a good comeback for that.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i mean...as a kiwi...who talks to lots of other kiwi...lots of us have considered France a bogey team in RWC's, there wins have been in play offs rather than pools games and even things like the 2011 final was much closer than i think it should have been given expectations before the world cup

I think if thats not a bogey team then i dont there there are many if any legit ones